Master Carpenter?

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  #1  
Old 05-17-07, 07:50 PM
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Master Carpenter?

I was watching one of those semi boring DIY shows and the host was introduced as a "Master Carpenter". She looked to be all of 30 years old. I always thought that to become a Master in a trade there were dues to be paid. Years on the job learning the ropes as an apprentice and a journeyman. Now I guess all you need is a TV show.

I also saw a commercial where one of the carpenters from Extreme Makeover is now hosting some DA game show.
 
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  #2  
Old 05-17-07, 08:20 PM
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How many years must one work to become a Master Carpenter?

In my experience, age and gender don't really signify much. I've known people who spend years in a vocation and never grow beyond a basic skillset, and there are those who have the drive and initiative to excell in a short time. To me, it's reasonable for a person of 30 to be a "Master Anything" in this day and age.
 
  #3  
Old 05-17-07, 09:34 PM
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The guy from Extreme Makeover tore up his hand. I can't remember for sure, but it may have been a saw or chisel. He probably lost nerves in his hand. I did see the show where it happened.
 
  #4  
Old 05-17-07, 10:08 PM
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I usually avoid Chats & Whines topic, but his one has me riled. Age? Gender?
Get over it. Those are just contextual factors that have nothing to do with anything. I have been working construction since 9 years old and am a female. Now, I am old and have years of experience and have very little strength and struggle to carry groceries in the house and afterwards open them because nowadays they are all tamper proof. Thus the old Uncle Henry I have carried since age 9 comes in handy along with all the other stuff in my jean pockets.

Those TV shows are all fantasy. I am addicted to all, live alone, and yell at the TV, "You can't do that, you didn't explain the prep, etc., etc." The TV world is about marketing and convincing DIYers if its a DIY show that they can DIY and selling products of sponsors. DIY market and sponsor sales have grown because of this.

If you read the posts associated re: such inspired posts, many DIYers got in over their heads due to failure to follow manufacturer intructions, many of which are not clear. And, DIYers tend not to be aware that they can call customer service to clarify instructions. And, if you bought an imported product, there may be no customer service number.

"She looked to be all of 30 years old. I always thought that to become a Master in a trade there were dues to be paid and hard work. Years on the job learning the ropes as an apprentice and a journeyman." Wayne, I love your posts and consider you part of our website family, but you have to get over age and gender.

"Years on the job learning the ropes as an apprentice and a journeyman." We don't know this person's background. She could've started out at her father's knee at age 9. Age 30, whether male or female, is not an exception for master carpenter or any trade. Just remember we women entered the workforce in WWII and some of us never left. And, kids today appear to be much smarter than my age group when growing up.

"Now I guess all you need is a TV show." Yes, you and I would be a hoot together. All we need to do is find an agent and contact a TV channel. They are always looking. Once you get popular, other channels will scout you for other TV opportunities because you are popular.

I am an hgtv & AE addict for home and real estate shows. I sometimes yell that is not code, that is not correct, you failed to prep, etc. You have to keep in mind that it's just TV. And, remember Jack Benny was 29 forever. This gal could look 30 and be 40 or 50 (some women just have those genes and the money to maintain that look like Joan Rivers and lots of celebreties.)
 
  #5  
Old 05-17-07, 10:27 PM
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Now twelvepole..... Did you keep your blood pressure medicine handy through all that? Actually, the best help I ever hired was a woman. She learned in a year what it takes most guys two years to learn and was on her own as a very competent installer a few months later. That experience taught me not to be so hard nosed about the gender thing in a lot of areas, but not all areas.
 
  #6  
Old 05-17-07, 11:04 PM
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Sorry to rant because I am now old and when I go to construction sites I have trouble getting up the scaffolds, ladders, etc. Inspected a home today and stair treads were not code and dated sunken living room was a drop of 12". You know what that did to my arthritic hip bones.

Don't have high blood pressure yet. Still registers at the level of a corpse. You know Smokey how much I love you and because you've been with us here forever.

" She learned in a year what it takes most guys two years to learn and was on her own as a very competent installer a few months later. That experience taught me not to be so hard nosed about the gender thing in a lot of areas, but not all areas." Not debating, that's against forum rules, of course, but these statements are still gender oriented. "She" is a feminine pronoun.


"That experience taught me not to be so hard nosed about the gender thing in a lot of areas, but not all areas." I have been a member of the National Home Buiilders Association for many years and have met many contractors, both male and female. As with most experts, they tend to be confined to their particular fields of expertise. Like on these forums, our experts tend to be confined to particular areas of expertise.

Wayne was discussing a female master carpenter of age 30. It is not unreasonable to assume that a 30 year-old of either gender could be a master carpenter. My dad was a master carpenter. I could have been if I had persued that trade because I was his shadow. I never did and never attempted, because little girls were supposed to be wives, teachers, or nurses when they grew up. I'm pushing 60 and still don't know what I want to be when I grow up. We need to let our daughters pursue their dreams. Once sawdust gets in your blood, you can't get it out. I always wanted to be a carpenter, but girls were not supposed to be carpenters in my day. When I smell sawdust, I feel alive and decades younger.
 
  #7  
Old 05-18-07, 12:28 AM
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Smile

You're no older than I am, and I still run up the stairs. That's why I stay in the trade I have, it keeps me in good shape. I can't keep up with the young guys any more, and I tell my customers who want to know how long the job will take, "I'm old and slow. It'll take as long as it takes.", but I can still put in a good day and yet go fishing in the evening.

What's not allowed on the forum, debate or mention of gender? Gender is an inescapable fact of life. Are you saying there's something wrong with that?

I'm fully aware of what Wayne was saying, I read the thread. I also agree with you. I used to sell flooring to a contractor who was not quite thirty yet and was one of the most skilled builders I've ever known. Any time spent around that guy and his youth was soon forgotten and a genuine respect developed. I don't believe it's the date on the birth certificate that matters so much as the time in service. He had grown up the same as you with a dad who was a skilled builder so he had several years experience by the time he graduated high school and was running a crew while he was in high school.

BTW, "he" is a masculine pronoun. I love you too.
 
  #8  
Old 05-18-07, 05:43 AM
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Twelvepole - It wasn't my intent to step on a nerve and I didn't intend to start a debate on gender inequities. It had everything to do with the fact that most of these "master anythings" on the recent rash of DIY programs are nothing more than out of work, wanna be actors.
 
  #9  
Old 05-18-07, 07:06 AM
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I think it's much easier to become a "master" at something at a much younger age (regardless of gender) because of all the instructional books and videos available today plus information you can find on the internet, but some of these people are not masters of anything, they have other people actually doing the real work and they just play pretend. I think the old shows were for real and today's shows are just for making money.
I also think (and know for a fact) that the tv shows make it look much easier and less time consuming than it actually is. I think the shows de-value most "real" tradespeople and a lot of people watching the shows don't have a clue.
 
  #10  
Old 05-18-07, 08:25 AM
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While books and videos can help a lot there is no substitute for on the job training = experience! And no matter how hard they try some will never master a certain task/job while others can become adept at several. I've worked with a few men that even though they had been painting for 20 yrs, could not be considered a master painter and a few that within a year could hold there own with most journeymen.

I used to enjoy watching diy shows back when there were only a few to watch, don't care much for them now. Especially the get ready to sell/flip type shows that paint in a way that I know is prone to failure
 
  #11  
Old 05-18-07, 08:58 AM
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IMHO, the DIY shows went downhill after PBS booted Bob Vila off T.O.H. The original Bob/Norm T.O.H. shows were the cream of the crop.

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  #12  
Old 05-18-07, 11:27 AM
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I guess I come from a different time, area or culture. My family were all tradesmen, mostly carpenters with a couple of plumbers, machists and painters. I worked for several years building houses while in school. Back then a master carpenter was the man, as was the master mason, plumber etc. None of these guys got up one day and decided to call themselves a "master" at anything. It was earned, mostly through years of experience and OJT. No way can those skills be learned from a book.

Now, apprently all it takes is for some producer to add the title to the actors intro. It's a joke and I think it's insulting to the guys that worked for it.

The days of guys like Abrams, Villa and Johnson are gone (actually Johnson may have started the trend - remember the failed comic, Tidy Bowl lady that was his cohost?). Now it's about the hot babe in a tool belt and belly shirt or the sweaty stud at the chop saw. We get Trading Spaces, a show about whacko out of work designers, Finders Fixers a show about not too bright home inspectors and my personal favorite Holmes on Homes, an obnoxious lunk in a wife beater tee shirt telling us all what a hero he is.

I still watch TOH, New Yankee Workshop and Ask TOH though.
 
  #13  
Old 05-18-07, 04:10 PM
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Wayne Mitchell: "I still watch TOH, New Yankee Workshop and Ask TOH though."

That's all I'll watch, either. You can get the old TOH here and see Steve and Bob and Norm.
 
  #14  
Old 05-19-07, 06:00 AM
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Wayne wrote: I was watching one of those semi boring DIY shows and the host was introduced as a "Master Carpenter". ... I always thought that to become a Master in a trade there were dues to be paid. Years on the job learning the ropes as an apprentice and a journeyman. Now I guess all you need is a TV show.

Yes Wayne
It is a TV show
They can call the hosts whatever they like
Whatever sounds better

In truth, that happens in the real world also
I've had an employer tell the customer the Master Carpenter would be there
I busted up when the customer asked me if I was the Master Carpenter
...prolly not the best move to instill confidence in the customer I know, but the thought of me being a Master Carpenter is ridiculous to me


Same thing with "Interior Designers" on those shows

It used to be (supposed to be) that an Interior Designer went to school and had the paperwork to show for it
An Interior Decorator needs no such background

These types of shows, all deciding to call their decorators "designers" because it sounded better, has led to all the Interior Decorators in my area calling themselves Interior Designers
(I'm sure they can charge more too-and it sounds more impressive-that can't hurt)

Of the last 8 "Interior Designers" I've met, only one actually went to school for some type of design (furniture design)

One even responded to my qualifications question by stating that she "spent a semester in France when in college"

Their are certification processes for both these examples
But the "guilds" have no authority to censure those that are not in the guilds

Wayne wrote:
I also saw a commercial where one of the carpenters from Extreme Makeover is now hosting some DA game show

Yes, they are hired for their personalities (and looks doesn't hurt)
It's a TV show after all
-not that some aren't afraid of a miter saw
-not that some aren't able to cut shelving
But that is not the main reason why they are hired

As much as I enjoy some of these shows, I do find I have to re-educate many customers and DIYers I help as to the realities of the situations, time, budget, and process -wise

Please people, DIYers and contractor hirers, remember that these are entertainment shows
They will and do sacrifice reality for a more entertaining show
 
  #15  
Old 05-19-07, 10:20 AM
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I saw a classic this morning. A couple had live electrical wires coming out of the top of their medicine cabinet. The handyman host helped by removing the cabinet and then having the homeowner install a metal electrical junction box and splice the offending (knob and tube) wiring in the box.

Of course they didn't have the proper clamps on the box and the wires couldn't have been long enough for a proper splice but hey, this is television.

The absolute best part was when they re-installed the cabinet. The wires were not cut nor spliced and the junction box was nowhere to be seen.

Televisionland, where anything is possible.
 
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