shipping to the 48 not 50 why

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  #1  
Old 08-16-07, 03:15 AM
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shipping to the 48 not 50 why

why do people only ship to the 48 states and not Hawaii or Alaska. I mean all the shipping companys go there including ground service so am I missing something.
 
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Old 08-16-07, 04:09 AM
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Who doesn't ship to Alaska or Hawaii?
 
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Old 08-16-07, 04:15 AM
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I've notice a lot of people on eBay will only ship to the 48 states. Not sure why.
 
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Old 08-16-07, 04:49 AM
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I recently heard an advertisement for some type of insurance that made reference to having information available to "all forty-eight states".

Kinda wondered about this exclusion as well.
 
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Old 08-16-07, 05:13 AM
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Depends on what it is, and how it's shipped
If it's through a trucking company, they don't go there
Usually to get a better rate the seller uses one trucking company
(think furniture, beds, desks, engines, kayaks...larger stuff)
If it's through a shipper like USPS, UPS, FE, DHL...then it's a money thing
You probably could get them to ship to Alaska/Hawaii, but it could add a fair amount to the cost
 
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Old 08-16-07, 06:13 AM
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Ever notice that ads for food prices - like this sandwich for this cost at a fast food chain - will only be valid in the contiguous 48? Costs so dang much to get stuff to the other two. One fast food company even touts that they have fresh, not frozen, meat on their burgers, but only in the contiguous 48. Takes so long that they have to freeze it to get it to the other two.
 
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Old 08-23-07, 02:00 AM
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but UPS the post office fedex etc go to all 50 states including there ground service. I understand it costs alot but if the buyers paying whats the problem
 
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Old 08-23-07, 08:24 PM
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Complying with export, import, shipping, and insurance, regulations hinder many people. Your query, and the responses, overlook that Alaskan and Hawaiian bound shipments from the Continental US involve an International Crossing, and that US Law requires US shippers to comply with the former regulations and International Law.

Personally, I don't see the Alaskan and Hawaiian markets being better served by the Internet and small business communities over those currently entrenched. Instituting fair return policies and procedures are problematic also. Who assumes legal responsibility for the shipment and regulation compliance? Who pays? Who teaches and guides consumers through a maze of regulations and paperwork to return an article of merchandise?

True, the major Parcel Services provide limited delivery in Alaska. On the other hand, I know that each has limited delivery areas, and in some instances they use the US Postal Service for final delivery. Size and weight limits, and the inability to handle goods of all kinds are other downsides of Parcel Services.
 
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Old 09-09-07, 02:49 PM
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at 2000

but the shipper doesn't pay for those fees its up to the buyer whos paying the shipping right and any extra fees
 
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Old 09-09-07, 03:08 PM
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ever try to sue somebody in Hawaii or Alaska? It would be prohibitively expensive.

Not that that is the only reason but it may play a part.
 
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Old 09-09-07, 03:14 PM
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shipping to the 48 not 50 why

It is up to the seller to determine what markets they want to concentrate on. Most have contracts that include different pick-up times for the "the other 2 states". This can cause problems for an operation even though the buyer pays for the shipping.

Also, "the other 2" usually require air shipments. Can you imagine what problems shipping a custom refridgerator or similar item to Nome, Alsaka could involve in terms of special handling. - Some types of sales are not worth it.

A seller's prices are determined using anticipated internal costs and problems that must be absorbed. The sellers just do not feel those markets are profitable and will not inflate the local prices to make up for the costs and problems of air or slow surface/water shipments.

I knew of a chop stick manufacturer from Minnesota that had higher prices for chop sticks in the U.S. than in the orient because of the volume and the shipping rates and conditions negotiated. The local market was not worth it if he had to deal with domestic rates for small volumes.

Dick
 
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Old 09-09-07, 05:05 PM
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but like I said UPS ground fedex ground is available to ALL 50 states so it makes me wonder why most people don't ship to all 50 im not paying the customs fee the buyer is.
 
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Old 09-09-07, 05:08 PM
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you have discounted my input. it is much more expensive to sue a person in Hawaii or Alaska then it would be to deal with most any of the other states, regardless which state one is in.

To me, that would be a huge incentive. Simply put, if a person in one of those states screws you, you might as well simply write it off as a loss unless it is over about $10k or so.
 
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Old 09-09-07, 07:12 PM
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General Chats and Discussions > shipping to the 48 not 50 why

flirty1 -

You seem to be missing the point.

A seller is not obliged to sell or arrange delivery everywhere. There are more things involved in shipping than just the freight rate. - What if you have to keep longer or earlier office/shipping hours just for odd pick-up times for very occasional shipments?

The reasons also may be legal/collection problems, shipping restraints/complications (chemicals, drugs, local laws) or just the internal costs and problems that come with different locations.

If a seller has to build in all the possible and necessary costs into a price that applies in every state and posession, then they could price themselves out of business in the areas where they could be the most competitive. There may be no problems with small, light items that can be shipped cheaper by air than any other method, although you may still not get the service you anticipate.

If you don't like the shipping available to you from a supplier, just find a different supplier. You do not have to buy from a supplier and he does not have to sell to you if his cost of doing busines is higher.
 
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Old 09-09-07, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by flirty1 View Post
but like I said UPS ground fedex ground is available to ALL 50 states so it makes me wonder why most people don't ship to all 50 im not paying the customs fee the buyer is.
there are no customs fees when shipping to Hawaii or Alaska. After all, they are a part of the United States.
 
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Old 09-09-07, 08:36 PM
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At flirty:
I beg your pardon, but a willing buyer doesn't address complying with export, import, shipping, and insurance, regulations.

Concretemasonry touched on a logistics and legal point when he mentioned shipping a refrigerator to Alaska by air. It's one of many points that you are either not aware of, or do not completely understand.

(A) shipping a refrigerator reliant on gaseous refrigerant is illegal by air. (Gas expands at high altitude. The potential for an explosion, or filling the aircraft with noxious gas exists). (B) refrigerators are shipped upright. Only the smallest versions of, would fit into an air cargo container. And, yes, ocean service to Alaska is available.


Flirty, you just became a business person and the shipper.
As a US citizen you will make one shipment to Hawaii (without incident) and another to Alaska (it will be returned). Neither shipment involves hazardous goods, nor requires a license. You will assume legal responsibility for each shipment, and by your own logic, you entered into the agreements, because the buyer will pay all charges. Your only task is justify your foolishness.


You take the package destine for Hawaii to a Parcel Service center. You surrender two copies of your Commercial Invoice and provide verbal instructions in lue of filling out an SLI. They fill out the other paperwork and complete shipment and delivery. You're just as dumb as you always were, but happier, because of the sale. This time things worked advantageously, because the buyer was not on the denied or barred persons list. Had they been, you could loose your business, be fined, or jailed. Your compelling reason for doing business is a willing buyer. Screw the law.

Just because everything beyond the Continental United States of America is International Territory, and the rest of the World expects reasonable care from shippers while goods are being transported within, and other Nations expect adherence too their own Laws and Regulations while in the respective Land, you choose to ignore these facts, because the Parcel Services seemingly absolve you of responsibility. After all, you're just shipping to Hawaii. You are mistaken on all counts. Even though you legally transferred the goods to the carrier, you are ultimately responsible for them, because they originated from you.




You receive an order from Alaskan Jack. You are thrilled. You haven't shipped to Alaska before, but you're eager to test your new skills. You verify that Alaskan Jack is not a denied or debarred person; everything between parties is rosy.

You discover that the Parcel Services and the Airlines are unable to ship your goods due to floor weight distribution. Packaging requirement bar repackaging for either service. You employ the services of an NVVOC.

Thorough the NVVOC you file with U.S. Customs as a known shipper; send them your power of attorney; and agree to other terms. Since this shipment will not be transshipped through Canada, (departs a West Coast Port of Call, enters International Waters, then reenters US Territory), you will not need the services of a Canadian Customs Broker, or be required to file relevant paperwork.

Once again, you are legally responsible for the goods exported. It became an export with the intent to enter International Territory. It becomes an import with the intent to enter US Territory again. You are legally responsible for the goods imported. The valuation of the goods; the destination, and end use, do not require filing a SED.

The outlook is bright, until the buyer inspects the delivered goods. Things go south, and the buyer wants to return them. You agree, as long as Alaskan Jack agree to pay all charges. Secretly this pisses Alaskan Jack off, but he hides his resentment and agrees. You're a trusting dummy, so the shipment is scheduled for returned, but your good buddy added a little something to the packaging.

Upon entry US Customs discovers a discrepancy. They investigate further, and discover an illegal substance. Since you are the shipper, the police arrive at your doorstep. You feverishly try too explain. They retort, tell the judge. Now, justify your foolishness. Are smart and stupid the same price?
 
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Old 09-09-07, 09:46 PM
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Customs?? Debarred or denied persons list? To Hawaii or Alaska? Am I missing something?

I understand the costs of shipping, and the hassles of size and certain hazardous materials.

I doubt the cost of suing would be much different than if you were on one coast and had to sue on the other coast.

By the way, a 12x12x12 package at 5 lbs, from Arkansas, is $11.25 to San Diego and takes one week (ship Monday, arrives Monday next). To Honolulu it takes one more day and costs $35.23. According to UPS site.

Just my $.02
 
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Old 09-10-07, 05:49 AM
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Blocked, denied, and debarred persons: what authority allows you export goods to them just because they reside in Alaska or Hawaii. Is Alaskan or Hawaiian residence justification for ignoring export regulations? Cite references.
 
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Old 09-10-07, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by 2000 View Post
Blocked, denied, and debarred persons: what authority allows you export goods to them just because they reside in Alaska or Hawaii. Is Alaskan or Hawaiian residence justification for ignoring export regulations? Cite references.
I don't see how it is exporting. Just because they are not attached to Conus, they are still part of the USA. They are states, the 49th & 50th. Not territories, such as PR & Guam.

To my knowledge there is not any more of a list of blocked, denied, and debarred persons for Alaska & Hawaii than there would be for any other state, be it Wisconsin or California. etc.

Maybe we can all be enlightened if you have references to cite to the contrary. Most of us are here to learn.
 
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Old 09-10-07, 02:23 PM
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integrator:
I doubt the cost of suing would be much different than if you were on one coast and had to sue on the other coast.
==========

well I'll be dipped in sheep stuff. Did a quick check on flights. Roundtrip from LAX to New york $300. LAX to Honolulu- about $380, LAX to Anchorage- $465.

A lot less difference than I expected. That surely does remove the cost of suing as a factor.
 
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Old 09-10-07, 07:26 PM
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Actually, I would try using a proxie or something. Why would you need to sue anyway. Hot check or fraudulent credit card, you would start with the prosecuting attorney. I mean, there may be reasons to, but I would think there would be ways to do it without going there.

Besides, Wouldn't you rather right off a vacation to Hawaii or Alaska.
 
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Old 09-10-07, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Integrator97 View Post
Besides, Wouldn't you rather right off a vacation to Hawaii or Alaska.
I like that idea.

I hang out at a couple legal advice websites and many of the problems with ebay (and other such situations) are not of a criminal matter, only civil. That would typically have to be taken care of in person by the actual injured party. Many states, simply because of why small claims even exist, do not allow suits by proxy.

If it involved an amount within most states small claims limits, even crossing the country to attempt to achieve recompense, can be prohibitively expensive. The costs of the efforts can quickly exceed the amount of money sought.

That is one reason I do business locally.
 
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Old 09-11-07, 07:38 AM
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I'm always willing to learn. So what kinds of problems and lawsuits are we talking about here? Just some examples please, cause I'm really in the dark here.
 
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Old 09-11-07, 02:58 PM
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if you buy something from a seller and he sends you something that is not as described. What do you do? Of course, you ask for your money back. What if he doesn;t give you your money back? You have 2 things (I can think of) to do.

1. If you paid with a credit card, you may be able to get the CC company to reverse or hold payment until things are settled. Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't and the CC company will often only withold payment for a limited time until they believe things should be settled.



2. Sue for your money.

Him not giving you your money back is not neccessarily criminal. It is often the differences of opinion that are what is needing to be ruled upon.

Actually anytime there is a problem that cannot be settled between the two parties whether it be merchandise not as percieved, broken merchandise, outright fraud, and other things, it takes the courts to settle things for you.

All of the above, with the exception of fraud (and even that can be merely a civil action in some cases) are typically civil actions and will have to be dealt with in a civil court. The police and/or prosecuting attorney will do nothing to assist.

Now, inversely, if a buyer fails in payment, it does not mean it is a criminal act. Often a bad check is not considered criminal witout intent. Sometimes it is very difficult to prove that intent. So, you end up in a civil court trying to get your money.

Now, when you sue somebody, all you get is a judgment. It is generally up to the plaintiff to collect on that judgement. Since you may be doing this from another state, here is more travel as you go to court to seek info and garnishments (if even available to you) to try to collect your money.
 
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Old 09-11-07, 03:38 PM
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Ok. That all makes sense and I understand. I'm discounting the 1st part for now, referring to a buyer, as the question is why won't people ship to those states, meaning the seller.

I am currently working on getting a webstore up and running, selling products for DIY, which I provide as an integrator, so basically expanding our horizons.

I am concerned about online fraud with CC. I don't see a problem with shipping to AK or HA, though I may have some hold time for a transaction to clear, and maybe only use the billing address. I intend to take precautions. I am aware about how small claims, and how any judgment works.

Thanks for the input.
 
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Old 09-12-07, 06:50 AM
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As an eBay seller who doesn't ship outside the lower 48 states, here's why:

It costs more.

Yes, the buyer pays shipping, but when they learn how much more it's going to cost, they baulk.

Give you an example (recent). I sold something that ANYWHERE else, it costs about $12 to ship this item via UPS (I've sold many). To Alaska, it costs nearly $50. I forget why, but I agreed to ship to Alaska. Estimated delivery time was about 5 days. Once the buyer learned it was going to cost an *extra* $35 (I charge $15 flat rate for this item, covers cost of packaging), what do you think their reaction was?

Ultimately, I ended up sending via snail mail for about $16, estimated delivery time, 3-4 WEEKS.

And no, customs paperwork isn't needed for the other 2 states, but is for Canada, which I why I don't ship to Canada or overseas. You can ship small quantities of areosol and other type products, but you must label them with an ORMD sticker, and GROUND ONLY.

So no, I don't ship outside the lower 48 states. I also don't take money orders or checks, paypal only.
 
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Old 09-12-07, 07:55 AM
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to solve the buyer backing out on the price quit offer flat rate shipping use calculated based on buyers zip code.
 
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Old 09-12-07, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by flirty1 View Post
to solve the buyer backing out on the price quit offer flat rate shipping use calculated based on buyers zip code.
Right. Or at least put a disclaimer on it, that it will cost subtantially more to those 2 states, give the weight and a link to the UPS site for costs.

Flirty1, was your original question directed more towards ebay and auction sellers, or full online and B&M stores? Just for clarification.
 
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Old 09-12-07, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Integrator97 View Post

Flirty1, was your original question directed more towards ebay and auction sellers, or full online and B&M stores? Just for clarification.
more towards ebay
 
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Old 09-13-07, 06:07 AM
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Buyers just don't believe it. I've even given them size, weight and origin zip code and tell them to go to UPS's website and look it up for themselves. Whenever I've used calculated shipping, I've lost money, because it goes strictly by zip code, not actual address. Inevitably, the buyer lives on rural route 99 in tumbuktu and UPS charges an extra $5 just to go down that road.

It's easier to just not sell to those states.
 
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