Medical Insurance

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  #41  
Old 08-10-09, 04:45 PM
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I do not know about Canada but in Britain you can not pay for anything health care related, as I understand things. Will we still have places like the Mayo clinic and Fox Chase cancer centers, where they do the research and you can pay if you have the cash, if we wind up with a government run system?

I feel that, no matter what the politicians say, if the government starts a public plan we will eventually have only a public plan.

Bill
 
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  #42  
Old 08-11-09, 04:45 AM
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Private health insurance in the UK

Originally Posted by Bill62 View Post
I do not know about Canada but in Britain you can not pay for anything health care related, as I understand things.
These is an extensive market (around 350 insurers) in the UK for supplemental, private health insurance, see for example:

Private Health Insurance UK & health plans : Information and online quotes

-----------

I'm not surprised people are misinformed about this, or that many people are misinformed about just about every aspect of European healthcare systems - one of the things that's very frustrating about trying to talk to many Americans about healthcare is that they have so little idea what's actually going on in the rest of the world.

FWIW, in Western Europe no two health care systems are the same, you have everything from true "socialized medicine" for basic care as in the UK, to "single-payer systems" which subsidize the purchase of private healthcare, to "mixed systems".

And the ones that work best (for example France, Holland and Germany - each BTW with a different system) produce outcomes that approach and in some cases exceed our own at far lower cost per individual insured, and they do it in a manner that guarantees that for example no one is going to be bankrupted by medical costs or fearful of taking a better job because of a gap in insurance coverage.

We may prefer own system - with such problems as large numbers of uninsured and underinsured individuals and families, "job lock", the increasing an expensive use of emergency rooms for the provision of primary care, "medical bankruptcies", the ability of insurance companies to drop individuals and ration care based on their own standards and very high administrative costs for ideological reasons: because we believe that "fosters personal responsibility" and "independence", or because we prefer big insurers to "big government", or for a host of other such reasons.

But if we choose to do that, the choice should not be based on ignorance and misinformation about the actual advantages and disadvantages of other systems.
 
  #43  
Old 08-11-09, 06:41 AM
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Here is a quote from a paper in the New England Journal of Medicine written by Robert Steinbrook, M.D.

"As explained in a 2003 report, the Canadian health care system is "unique in the world in that it bans coverage of . . . [physician and hospital] core services by private insurance companies, allowing supplemental insurance only for perquisites such as private hospital rooms."

It goes on to say that they are working to start allowing private companies to cover some core services but seems to support my initial statement to some extent. If anyone is "misinformed" it is easy to see why they might be.

I may not have every fact correct but, I feel I am informed enough to come to the conclusion that any healthcare plan that includes a "public" (government) option is likely to lead to rationed care at some point in time. Private companies can not compete with the government and beaurocrats in the government will only be looking at the bottom line when making decisions as to who should get what care and when they should get it.

I base my conclusions on what I have seen "our" government do in the past not entirely on what other countries are doing. Our governments track record is not the greatest, look at Social Security for example.

Once a large beaurocracy is created it will be difficult if not impossible to change it, partly because those employed by the system will have no incentive to change it. Englands healthcare system is the worlds third largest employer. What might the American system look like some day?

Bill
 
  #44  
Old 08-11-09, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by nightowlpunk View Post
If universal health care is so great, why do Canadians (sp?) come to the U.S. to pay for operations that save their lives?
Are you sure? Can you prove it?

I am Canadian and I can assure you that we don't go to the US to get medical assistance.
Few weeks ago, a Canadian lady did a lot of noise and went the papers with a story about the 100K she paid in the US for a surgery to treat her cancer urgently. At the end, she had not cancer but a benign tumor and her surgery was elective. All the buzz was in order to get some $$$ back
But in the meantime, her story is still used to show how the Canadian health care is bad.

The private rooms are not included in our health plan, as are not included (as I stated previously) the dental services, physiotherapy, and psychology. This is why there are additional health insurance policies . 99% of the times, the employers pay the additional health insurance policy

BTW and as a comment: in Canada, we ALL use the same system, there are not private doctors or hospitals. And yes, the government use the same system, included the PM
 
  #45  
Old 08-11-09, 11:21 AM
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Hmmmmmm. I grew up with healthcare and to me its like school, just something you get when you live in Canada. I'm 53 so most people alive today probably feel the same way.

Good or bad depends on where you sit. My wife and daughter are nurses. They see abuse but they also see everyone treated equally (a nice notion I suppose).

In general, everyone seems to get eventually looked after. Some people die or suffer because wait times are too long but there are a million more successes than failures.

We certainly pay much more taxes than in the US but my brother in law is US and he pays a fortune for insurance (so it seems to me)

Some people do go to the states for operations they either can't get here or can't wait for. But there are not many because of the huge costs. I hear tales of the govt paying for some operations based upon circumstances.

I cant relate to all the Americans getting up in arms over it as I've always had medicare and good health so I havent occasion to get debate it. It certainly worries me that its getting too big with the aging population etc.

Your debate was already held here many years ago and we've moved on. Better or worse, I don't know but so far I'm OK with medicare.
 
  #46  
Old 08-11-09, 12:05 PM
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I agree that there are problems with the current health care system, but trusting the U.S. government to do this is kind of like asking a pyromaniac to fix your furnace given the track record of current and previous policies issued by them.
 
  #47  
Old 08-11-09, 01:48 PM
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Hi nightowlpunk,

I received your PM and I saw your answer: to clarify this--> I am not talking about the US. As I stated before , I don't write about US politics

You wrote about the Canadian health care (you wrote: If universal health care is so great, why do Canadians (sp?) come to the U.S. to pay for operations that save their lives?) and I answered about the Canadian health care

Take care
 
  #48  
Old 08-12-09, 10:14 AM
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nightowlpunk, you wrote:

<i>I agree that there are problems with the current health care system, but trusting the U.S. government to do this is kind of like asking a pyromaniac to fix your furnace...</i>

OK, specific example: my wife has had breast cancer, so if she loses her job she is uninsurable via private insurance.

What is a "non-governmental" solution to her problem?

I don't mean some vague generality, I mean a specific solution for the millions of people like my wife who are uninsurable because of "preexisting conditions".

"... given the track record of current and previous policies issued by them."

Medcare has been quite sucessful - just ask its current users if they want to go back to private insurance.

I'm old enough to remeber what it was like before Medicare.

My grandparents - who had worked and paid taxes all their lives - had NO health insurance at all... like 40% of elderly Americans at the time.
 

Last edited by Michael Thomas; 08-12-09 at 10:58 AM.
  #49  
Old 08-12-09, 10:59 AM
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I have talked to several veterans in the past, and they all told me how they had to fight the VA hospitals to get decent care. There was a story related to that on 60 Minutes or the CBS world news last Sunday. Why am I paying into medicare when it will not be around when I hit that age? The same question could be asked about Social Insecurity. If there was a guarantee that politicians could not take money out of these systems, I might feel a little better about paying into them. Given the fact that in some areas it is easier to get heroin than cigarettes, this proves that the War on Drugs is a colossal failure, and guess what? It is a government program. This is also the same government that told us that Canadian drugs were unsafe a few years ago, but they rebadged them for use in the VA hospitals. I would not want to fight the government to get decent health care, do you?
 
  #50  
Old 08-12-09, 01:14 PM
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"I'm old enough to remeber what it was like before Medicare.
My grandparents - who had worked and paid taxes all their lives - had NO health insurance at all... like 40% of elderly Americans at the time."


My grandparents were also uninsured. Like most I had 2 sets of grandparents; city and farm. My grandfather who lived in town died before medicare came along but he had always managed his money well and enjoyed good health until he died of bronchitis at the age of 92. He was one of the few who worked thru the depression and was able to make that big $7 per month house payment.

My other grandfather worked 44 hrs a week in a foundry, drove a coal truck 10 hrs on saturday and farmed 27 acres in his spare time. As they grew older and their health started to fail, they sold off pieces of the farm a little at a time to pay doctor/hospital bills. They got to see medicare and keep 1/2 the farm.

While medicare may not be the best health insurance it beats the heck out of not having any at all!
 
  #51  
Old 08-12-09, 04:18 PM
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I'm on Medicare A,B & D
It ain't perfect but I like it.
The reason I don't like the proposed gov. new program: our fearless leader & his rubber stamp congress said that they will remove $330 billion from Medicare to help
pay for the new program---where the hell do that leave us???
Also: our fearless leader said that next year he will try to turn all illegals into American
citizens--NICE--another 15/20 million Democratic votes & freebies for new medical program.
This guy is just getting started---STICK AROUND........................
 
  #52  
Old 08-17-09, 11:47 AM
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Maybe its beating a dead horse now but...

Some info from the Canadian Press.

"SASKATOON — The incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association says this country's health-care system is sick and doctors need to develop a plan to cure it.

Dr. Anne Doig says patients are getting less than optimal care and she adds that physicians from across the country - who will gather in Saskatoon on Sunday for their annual meeting - recognize that changes must be made."

"We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize," Doing said in an interview with The Canadian Press.

Bill
 
  #53  
Old 08-17-09, 08:09 PM
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Hi Bill62,

I am not sure what is the point of your message , but this a partial info and as matter of fact, it is related with a survey among 2,268 physicians

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Andre Picard
Saskatoon — From Tuesday's Globe and Mail
Last updated on Monday, Aug. 17, 2009 10:37PM EDT


An overwhelming 83 per cent of doctors believe there is an “urgent” need to fix Canada's health-care system, but they are split on whether a fundamental transformation is required, or if necessary improvements can be made by tinkering with the current system.

That is the message from the most extensive survey of the medical profession ever done.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am not interested in the discussion of the Canadian health Care system. I just pointed some concepts. Sure, there is a lot of room for improvements. It doesn't exist a perfect system. Lots of Canadians (including myself) look for improvements in the health system, but this doesn't mean that we are looking for other system

From my side, this is my last message in this thread
 
  #54  
Old 08-17-09, 09:47 PM
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Saskatoon Saskatchewan mentioned on this site. We've hit the big times.
 
  #55  
Old 11-23-09, 06:09 AM
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I've lived in countries with national healthcare (eg UK) and without (eg USA). I prefer national healthcare and think Americans are being suckered.

Any Americans spent e.g. 5 or 10 years living in both systems (eg Canada?).
 
  #56  
Old 11-23-09, 06:50 AM
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wHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR RULES ON HEALTHCARE---OR DOES IT ONLY APPLY TO ME?
 
  #57  
Old 11-23-09, 07:52 AM
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Not sure I understand? Can you elaborate?
 
  #58  
Old 11-23-09, 07:54 AM
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Article in the local paper Saturday showed a picture from the days where people were protesting Medicare. Doctors were quitting, people were staging huge protests. Intent was to show how what seemed evil has worked so well (to this point). Wont find too many Canadians *****ing.
 
  #59  
Old 11-23-09, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by knothandy View Post
Not sure I understand? Can you elaborate?
Under the new rules we were told we could not discuss
healthcare on this forum.........
 
  #60  
Old 11-23-09, 09:38 AM
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I'm not going to debate the rules and decorum issues, but I think this thread has pretty much run its course and will now be closed.

Nobody needs to pm me on the issue.
 
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