How could the Postmaster General allow the PO to go billions in debt ......

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  #1  
Old 11-20-09, 05:40 PM
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How could the Postmaster General allow the PO to go billions in debt ......

...and still keep his job?!

Am I from some other planet or what?

I have heard the PO is suffering due to e-mail and such. Well then - then scale back on deliveries, pay workers less, stop or restructure benefits and pensions, and make them walk. Or if we have to -forget about home deliveries altogether, and have people come to the PO to get it! People could then choose to go every day, twice a week, or whatever, based on what they might be expecting.

They just can't keep carrying on as if nothing is wrong, running up more debt by the billions. What are they thinking?! Something has to give. And it should have a long time ago.

How come they don't pay people $8 and no benefits if that is all the money they have? Plenty of people out there are hungry for any work they can get. I delivered newpapers for cheap, as a kid. I could have delivered mail piggyback for say double the pay and I would have been grinning ear to ear.

I don't want taxes to go up while these delivery guys make big money and benefits and retirement packages at our expense. How do they get away with this, legally?

Raising the price of stamps is not the answer, because this only perpetuates a downward spiral where then even more people will not use the postal system as much.
 
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  #2  
Old 11-20-09, 06:58 PM
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There is just a government obligation to provide communications and certified delivery to all people and companies.

Reducing pay levels that are agreed upon since post office got put on a privatizing standpoint is not possible since the future costs continue (just like GM & Chrysler) required by contracts.

It would be easy to cut the services and times provided, but many people would suffer, especially in small areas.

Do you actually think UPS and FEDEX would provide the same services at a reasonable price?

The best thing to do is get rid of the rates for junk mail, which is the majority of the bulk handled, although the post office does a great job on packages and mail from individuals on a predictable basis. That is the reason the competitors do not want to get into that part of the business.
 
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Old 11-21-09, 06:37 AM
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stop worring about the goverment--they are not using their money !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Old 11-21-09, 10:09 AM
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My delivery man got upset when I told him to stop delivering all the junk mail and flyers. He said thats the mail that gets him paid. Half my trash bag is always full of junk presorted standard mail. So many trees being chopped to support this huge waste of money.

Another thing, aren't the post offices, most anyways, unionized? That would explain there problems as well....
 
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Old 11-21-09, 10:50 AM
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I seem to remember something from a few years back. Doesn't the USPS contract out the shipping of their Express/Priority mail stuff? To FedEx or UPS? Not the delivery..but the shipping. Anyone remember that...?

Or was that when I was living in an alternate reality?


Just another note...we have some of the lowest rates for mailing domestic letters of anywhere in the world.
 
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Old 11-21-09, 07:13 PM
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Ground shipping is faster as it is delivered directly by UPS.
Basic shipping is where the UPS driver actually delivers to the local post office, then the
post office delivers to your door.
UPS & USPS have a partnership where UPS carrys the post office mail on their airline & in return the post office delivers small packages for UPS called basic service.
Ain't America Wunderful......................................
 
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Old 11-21-09, 07:33 PM
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The USPS works and you always have other choices (UPS, Fed Ex) if you are not satisfied. - They even fit with the little old ladies that want to send a package or letter to Minsk, Belarus or Mumbai, India. just as easy a Kansas City.

The "Forever" stamps also satisfy the penny pinchers that seem to be the most vocal until they want personalized service.

Dick
 
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Old 11-22-09, 03:52 AM
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How could the Postmaster General allow the PO to go billions in debt ......
...and still keep his job?!

Since when was a goverment institution supposed to turn a profit
 
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Old 11-22-09, 05:46 AM
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Wait a minute.....isn't the Postal Service a private company? If so, how does the government figure into it at all? Or was that just a "feel good" moment we had when they "privatized" it? I guess that's what we will feel like once all America is under government control. But I digress, and Tow Guy will log in here shortly and cut us off at the knees for getting political.:NO NO NO:
 
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Old 11-22-09, 06:53 AM
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The USPS is in the business to break even, NOT make profit. The Post Office is still a federal agency, but has some "private" practice type of power under Title 39, section 401 of the USC.

They are also the only federal agency where they can be cited AND fined by OSHA for workplace safety violations. In all other agencies, OSHA cannot fine them. They did this because FedEx and UPS complained that USPS was in the same type of business as them and they had a unfair advantage.
 
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Old 11-22-09, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Concretemasonry View Post
There is just a government obligation to provide communications and certified delivery to all people and companies.

Reducing pay levels that are agreed upon since post office got put on a privatizing standpoint is not possible since the future costs continue (just like GM & Chrysler) required by contracts.

It would be easy to cut the services and times provided, but many people would suffer, especially in small areas.

Do you actually think UPS and FEDEX would provide the same services at a reasonable price?

The best thing to do is get rid of the rates for junk mail, which is the majority of the bulk handled, although the post office does a great job on packages and mail from individuals on a predictable basis. That is the reason the competitors do not want to get into that part of the business.
But the bottom line is the status quo cannot continue, plain and simple. To have any other mindset that includes if ands or buts regarding contracts, etc., is ridiculous. If the money is not there, it is not there. Companies have to trim fat when they run into such problems to stay solvent. Gov't entities operate on a mindset that since they control the guns, that they can do a they please, and just keep doling out the money, even though it is not coming in - so it seems.
 
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Old 11-22-09, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by j HOWARD View Post
@ec
stop worring about the goverment--they are not using their money !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ya. They can just go ahead and print more of it, I guess. And dilute the value of it. While none of them dilute the amount of money they pay themselves, including how much they will be paid, even after they are no longer working.
 
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Old 11-22-09, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by chandler View Post
But I digress, and Tow Guy will log in here shortly and cut us off at the knees for getting political.:NO NO NO:
But doesn't that apply for political and religious debate that escalates to heated debate? What about if we all keep our cool about it all? I sure hope we are not allowed from talking about gov't practices.
 
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Old 11-22-09, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by HotinOKC View Post
They did this because FedEx and UPS complained that USPS was in the same type of business as them and they had a unfair advantage.
And landlords have complained that they are unfairly picked on by being made to fix up their properties, when homeowners are not as scrutinized. So what did they do? Go after homeowners too..... when someone calls into complain about the house. Meaning - if you have an enemy, that enemy could cost you hundreds or thousands of dollars in mandated repairs. What a crazy, and often unfair system we operate under - I swear.
 
  #15  
Old 11-22-09, 03:06 PM
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It sounds like some people have their minds made up in advance.

The USPS is just a service to guarantee mailing to all people. They do not have to be profitable because they have other regulations and overhead to comply with, so their cost will be higher, which allows UPS and FedEx to do as they wish, as dictated by the market, and carve out their part of the market and still make a profit. The USPS is just a service that must provide a minimum for all people and have documented proof. They also deliver every Saturday, which is not offered by others unless you agree to pay a premium.

Our local post office has both UPS and FedEx boxes on the sidewalk for late or emergency drops of important/time sensitive drops. Apparently, people did not think the USPS should spend the money to provide that service.

Can you buy a "Forever stamp" from UPS or FedEx? they just don't want to bother with the small stuff, but they do a reasonably good job on domestic packages and rush letter for a price. They are also good for international mail (rush) and packages to major international cities, but are very iffy for mail to the majority of the cities.

Dick
 
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Old 11-22-09, 04:16 PM
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I will have to admit, here lately, when purchasing things on line, the items shipped via UPS take over a week to arrive, while Priority Mail is zippity doo da faster. I have been requesting USPS Priority Mail when possible. Cost is basically cheaper, too.
 
  #17  
Old 11-22-09, 04:42 PM
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I have been using BASIC rates from MO to MI for small packages--
Least expensive rate & 2-3 day delivery..........
 
  #18  
Old 11-22-09, 05:01 PM
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In newer areas, we have community mailboxes. Maybe you do do. I thought it was a terrible idea. I even had a petition.
20 years later, its not even a thought.

My parents live in a town where you get your mail from the local post office. Not even a slight issue. Sure there were people it caused a hardship for but thats where the community steps up.

I'm PO'd when I need to use Post Office. Everyone, and I mean everyone, I know has email. Why can't we do everything over the net? Not packages etc but why is anything sent via snail mail? (junk mail only!!)
 
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Old 11-23-09, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mjd2k View Post
In newer areas, we have community mailboxes. Maybe you do do. I thought it was a terrible idea. I even had a petition.
I live in a small town where the USPS still walks their route to deliver mail to mailboxes on the front of the house. A few years ago, the USPS wanted to go to motorized delivery, which meant all customers would need curbside mailboxes. The USPS even contracted to have curbside mail boxes installed FREE for all customers. About halfway through the project of installing the curbside boxes, our city commissioners ordered them removed, citing the USPS was trespassing on city owned property. They're still doing the front door deliver, but I foresee the day soon when the community mailboxes will be forced upon us, perhaps in retaliation for the city's refusal to allow curbside delivery.
 
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Old 11-23-09, 08:40 AM
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We have a mix of both here..for whatever reason. My house is about 20 yrs old..and 2 blocks over..they are maybe 25. They have mailboxes...we have 2 community boxes on each block.

I thought it was strange when we first moved..but now I think its a pretty good idea. I only walk across the street and 3 houses over, but I don't have any maintenance, and you'd have to be pretty desperate to try to break into it to steal anything. Plus most packages will fit in one of the large cubbys..so never have USPS stuff left on the porch.
 
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Old 11-23-09, 04:28 PM
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We have one of the communal boxes at the end of the driveway. I can see the reasoning behind it. By the time Craig navigates all the 1/2 mile long driveways in our area, it would take too long. We all have to go past the box at some time of the day, as there is only one way in and one way out. If my packages don't fit into the cubby, he will drive up to the house and leave it on the tractor seat in the carport.
 
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Old 11-23-09, 06:08 PM
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We have comminuty boxes as well and I do not like them. They are incredibly small and can barely hold more then two days mail. The next road over in the same division, built at the same time, has their own mailboxes. It especially sucks during the winter months when I have to traverse snow and ice and go across the street.
 
  #23  
Old 11-24-09, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Concretemasonry View Post
The USPS is just a service to guarantee mailing to all people. They do not have to be profitable because they have other regulations and overhead to comply with, so their cost will be higher, ......
I don't care if they are profitable. Profit is a term given to extra money above and beyond after all expenses are paid, including wages. "Non-profit" would be okay by me. I just do not think they should be losing money, and keep operating as normal, and losing yet more billions. Sort of like the Amtak thing, where they just threw more money at a lost cause.
 
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Old 11-24-09, 02:46 PM
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The simple solution is to just raise the USPS rates, which will reduce the income. Because of that, it will become unprofitable and be shut down to eliminate the service provided to the smaller towns/municipalities and let the residents to fend for themselves with the alternates.

I would hate to see a town like Chippewa Falls, Rice Lake or Black River Falls, WI or smaller and have to fend for myself when the alternates were UPS and FedEx or the local shops they franchise. - there might be sleet, now or rain, which Tom Hanks never had to put up with in the Castaway when he was the FedEx hero.

Getting the mailers of "junk mail" to pay the proper price for the time and effort to deliver could be a step forward to improvement. Otherwise, just rely on your computer, service provider/cost and use E-Mail and drive to the local UPS of FedEx to get your mail.

Benjamin Franklin had the right idea about 250 years and it deserves a few more years until the old Jetsons concepts get workable.

Dick
 
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Old 11-24-09, 11:49 PM
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I happen to think that the USPS service with first class mail is an extreme bargain. For 41 cents (or is it 43 cents?) I can mail a letter ANYWHERE in the US and know it will be delivered in just a few days. I can drop the letter in the outgoing slot of my "community mail box" or drive a few miles and drop it in a box at the local USPS station where it will enter the system at least a day earlier. There is no way that any private company could provide that service without charging ten times the cost.

As for the "community" boxes...I live on the inboard end of a long cul-de-sac and when I first moved here there were the standard rural mailboxes in a cluster at the entrance to the cul-de-sac. Because of the lay of the land it is somewhat of a hike from my home to the mailboxes and it is uphill both ways. I don't "do" hills very well anymore so I don't pick up my mail unless I am driving somewhere and that means that my mail often sits in the box for several days. We had a rash of mail thefts a few years ago and the people that had boxes in our particular cluster decided we wanted the official USPS cluster box assembly. We found out that we had to pay for the cluster box and install it ourselves. The USPS also required 100% approval before they would move on this.

It cost each residence about $125. to get this cluster box and a couple of the stronger neighbors worked to install it. Now I have little fear of my mail being stolen if I don't run up and get it within an hour of being delivered.

Truth is, I doubt that I send out mail more than a half-dozen times a year and most of what I receive gets tossed into the recycle bin as soon as I tear off my address. I use my credit union's on-line bill paying service for paying bills and I use E-mail for my personal correspondence. I think that the rates for "standard" (junk) mail could be raised considerably without a significant loss in volume because the senders of this mail probably have a response rate of somewhere around 1-2 percent. All it would mean is that I would likely not receive the Victoria's Secret catalog, the Miles Screwball catalog or the Hangover House catalog since I never buy anything from them. I could very well do without all the public broadcasting and museum catalogs too as it has been at least a decade since I bought anything from these catalogs.
 
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Old 11-25-09, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by furd View Post
I happen to think that the USPS service with first class mail is an extreme bargain.
For 41 cents (or is it 43 cents?) I can mail a letter ANYWHERE in the US and know it will be delivered in just a few days. I can drop the letter in the outgoing slot of my "community mail box" or drive a few miles and drop it in a box at the local USPS station where it will enter the system at least a day earlier. There is no way that any private company could provide that service without charging ten times the cost.
So far, you sound pro-PO know matter what. But then I could not figure out that if you like it so much, why you did not know that stamps are 44 .

.......and that means that my mail often sits in the box for several days.
Me too. It sort of ruins my day and gives me indigestion when I see another notice from the IRS.

Truth is, I doubt that I send out mail more than a half-dozen times a year and most of what I receive gets tossed into the recycle bin as soon as I tear off my address. I use my credit union's on-line bill paying service for paying bills and I use E-mail for my personal correspondence.
But now here, it sounds like you could do fine without the PO.
 
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Old 11-26-09, 09:49 AM
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Quite honestly, I am neither pro or con where the USPS is concerned. I don't know what the price of a first class stamp is because I haven't bought a stamp with a price denomination since they started issuing the Forever stamps. I think I have only purchased stamps twice in the last two years.

I DO think that the USPS does a fantastic job when you consider the sheer volume of mail they process. I think that when they do it with the cost of each piece of mail as low as it is to be be absolutely amazing. I seriously doubt that FedEx, UPS or any other completely private (i.e. for profit) company could do the job as well as the USPS without a serious raising of prices.

Could I do "just fine" without the USPS? I would certainly survive but I would most assuredly miss the service.
 
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Old 11-27-09, 02:53 PM
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What you say flies in the face of the single big reason why so many people are agaisnt gov't run health care/insurance: That gov't can't do anything cheaper than the private sector can do. You are saying the opposite, regarding the postal system. I can't argue because I really have no idea. Someone else would have to try it and see, I guess.
 
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Old 11-27-09, 03:36 PM
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Comparing postal service to healthcare is not even like comparing apples to oranges; more like comparing apples to automobiles.

Quite honestly the economies of scale do work when it is one simple thing that is being done. The administration of Social Security benefits is amazingly efficient if you are comparing the internal processing costs with the costs of the benefits. Same is true of Medicare although there are many that would state differently. The main problem with Medicare is that there is not one specific provider of benefits as there is with Social Security.

Now please don't misquote me or even suggest that I am suggesting the following system but IF the federal government were to nationalize all aspects of the healthcare system and anyone employed with healthcare to any degree were then to become government employees I have no doubt whatsoever that a federally run healthcare system would be able to operate very efficiently with probably only one or two percent administrative costs. Of course such a thing would never happen because it would mean the end of any and all health-related insurance companies, the end of any private practice doctors, the end of private pharmacies and sever limitations on private pharmaceutical companies and private pharmaceutical research.
 
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Old 11-29-09, 08:05 PM
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The problem is that unlike privately owned busineses the Fed doesn't have to make a profit and compete in order to stay in business they just raise our taxes and of course the cost of our stamps keep going up for the same mediocre service.
(no offense to all the postal workers)
 
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Old 11-30-09, 05:14 PM
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I thought it was through competiton between companies that the most efficiency and cost savings occurs. Not some entity that can hire at will, and pay itself.
 
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