Home Shows

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  #1  
Old 01-29-11, 05:07 AM
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Home Shows

OK, I'm growing weary at yelling at my TV on Saturday mornings. Anyone else? I see these pretty boys doing bath and kitchen renovations, and invariably they violate some sort of standard building practice EVERY episode! I know why they have the young trim and fit pretty boys and girls on. They appeal to the average homeowner, physically. Mentally, I got a problem.
So, with that said, and with the talent we have on this forum, we should get Tom and the sponsors to start our own show. We could build/remodel basically anything that comes along. Only difference we would do it right!
Mike Holmes has his niche and he does good work, charitably to some extent. We would charge going rates, get materials at the best discount possible (considering advertising compensation), and do "retail" work, so the public can see exactly what it would cost to do these jobs, and how they should be done.
Aaaaak , go ahead, lay that cbu without thinset!! Dipstick.
 
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Old 01-29-11, 05:32 AM
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I have no doubt that we could show the right way to do things but would they turn the channel as soon as they saw our ugly mugs

Good to know I'm not the only one that fusses at the tv for some of the things those idiots do
 
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Old 01-29-11, 05:48 AM
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No, we would keep TG in the background Hey, nothing wrong with overweight, short, ugly guys that do things right!!
 
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Old 01-29-11, 05:50 AM
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Hey, who said I was short?
 
  #5  
Old 01-29-11, 05:51 AM
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The wife doesn't like to let me watch them with her any more as I cringe too much. Every time I see them start a painting job right in the middle of the wall, I cough or squirm to let her know, "there they go again". I've been waiting for the camera crews to revisit all of these flipped, dressed-up, and disguised homes to see what they look like a few years down the road.

Bud
 
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Old 01-29-11, 05:56 AM
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Not only do they start in the middle of a wall, they'll have 3 people using a roller, no roller pole and rolling in any conceivable direction.... and they almost always do the cut in last. Why would any one want to break out multiple rolles for one room? Not to mention the lack of primer and prep... or the wrong primer for the job. On their stain jobs, they supposedly cut the wood, stain, finish and install - all in one afternoon
 
  #7  
Old 01-29-11, 06:11 AM
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They are all actor/actress wannabee's. The TOH shows are the only ones I pay attention to.

More and more of the DIY shows are turning to conflict/drama instead
of instruction. Couples start projects, screw them up and call in the cavalry (contractors). I thought it was supposed to be the DIY network. Or they budget $2000 and 3 days for a total kitchen redo.

Did anyone see the show with the kitchen designer/DIYer literally crying in the corner because his own kitchen renovation was screwed up. Or better yet the stupid woman and her wuss husband living with their brood in a basement while their house was gutted for a total reno? IMO it's all scripted.
 
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Old 01-29-11, 06:19 AM
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This morning, Amy Matthews was cutting insulation with a handsaw....what??? My knees won't let me do the dancing around and cutting up some of the pretty boys do. So I'd have to concentrate on the job, I guess. I don't paint, but I was wondering about the cut in thingy. I always have seen the cut in first, then the body last...glad to know it was right.
I love the way they compress time on demo. 25 seconds to gut a room and sweep it up.
Wayne, IIRC, the couple living in their basement were living under a time bomb waiting to fall. All the renovation weakened the two floors above to the extent they technically uninhabitable (or shouldn't have been inhabited).
They just installed a laminate floor (pretty), then attached a knee wall directly to it by nailing through the flooring without compensating. I, too, would like for a camera crew to visit an about a year.
 

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  #9  
Old 01-29-11, 08:56 AM
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Unfortunately what is shown is perceived as proper techniques and code compliant work. When you tell the HO that you can't do something that they saw on TV they think you are just trying to cheat them and bump up the price.

These shows also make the HO think that the job can be done in a half hour or just a few days and with little mess. I have never seen an inspector come and look at work that should be permitted.

Then there are the down to the studs remodels where the electric is not updated to current spacing requirements on the kitchen countertops. All that money for granite and you still don't have a receptacle to plug the toaster into. The use of cheap products like puck lights and everyone Oohs and Aahs when you could have used something really nice. Errr.
 
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Old 01-29-11, 09:10 AM
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Yes, "as seen on tv" I've run into that one more than once. And home owners don't seen to recognize the math, 10 gorillas with a couple of dumpsters to gut a house in half a day equals 2 plus weeks for a home owner, even if his friends help. Heck, the beer alone would cost more than having someone do it right.

Bud
 
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Old 01-29-11, 12:01 PM
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I have blocked HGTV with the "parental controls" feature. Cant watch it now even if I wanted to. It keeps my blood pressure from going thru the roof and added at least 10 years to my life.
 
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Old 01-29-11, 12:55 PM
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Well..never done it for a business as most of you have...but my wife still gives me the "look" when I complain about technique used. I think I watch those that I do watch more as design ideas. I have absolutely no skill at that..since I figure functional IS pretty..wife thinks otherwise.
 
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Old 01-29-11, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by pcboss View Post
These shows also make the HO think that the job can be done in a half hour or just a few days and with little mess.
The first thing I tell homeowners is we will make a mess. We will mitigate it as much as possible, by putting up plastic sheeting, etc., but you will have dust in the remainder of your house, so get ready. That way they aren't surprised when they have to clean their house when we leave.
 
  #14  
Old 01-30-11, 10:27 AM
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i watch those shows. mostly because there is nothing else on. i take them with a grain ......
 
  #15  
Old 01-30-11, 10:58 AM
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Hey I'm short and ugly!

I don't mind the home shows at all. I take them with a grain of salt too. Lots of the "experts" are just terrible with technique, knowledge etc. But its just entertainment! I can't believe what some of the "pros" do. It hilarious!

I'm not a fanatical DIYer. I like that I can do the job as right as I think it needs to be so I'm more tolerant of those shows. Now... if someones paying me..... then I go to perfect.
 
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Old 01-30-11, 04:17 PM
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Was on a design site today and they showed a receptacle plate that recesses into the Sheetrock and then you plaster over it. Love seeing the designer explaining that one to the electric inspector.

It's the third picture down.
http://alexisvictoriadesign.wordpress.com/
 
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Old 01-30-11, 06:37 PM
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So if something goes wrong, you have to hire an electrician, rock finisher and painter to get things back like they were. Unbelievable!
 
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Old 01-30-11, 07:04 PM
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Not to mention it is a code violation.
 
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Old 01-30-11, 08:30 PM
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And just for laughs when was the last time you saw a box installed horizontally? Tolyn, hope I didn't give you nightmares about a customer who thinks this is "way cool". Can't you here her saying, "but it has to be legal, I saw it on the internet".
 
  #20  
Old 01-31-11, 06:14 AM
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Side by side outlets but the grounds are down. Not a bad idea for certain circumstances. The receptacles are made by a Canadian company (Bocci). Apparently they are approved to UL standards but I doubt very much that the installation is approved by Canada's version of the NEC.

But you have to admit it is very clean and attractive install.
 
  #21  
Old 01-31-11, 06:48 AM
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Most of these shows are terribly painful to watch. Being a painter, I'm with Marksr in terms of the squirming while watching them slop paint all over a wall with either no drop sheets or the cheap saran wrap plastic ones, no painting poles, stopping to chat for five minutes while in the middle of a wall, etc.

My girlfriend loves them. These replaced the property virgin type real estate shows after we bought our house. They have done nothing but cause arguments about what renos we should be doing.

Of course, now we're engaged. Now I get to watch/attempt to ignore shows about weddings/wedding disasters/bridezillas, etc. etc.

Not sure which was the lesser of the evils, but I know for sure why there's very little tv I can stand to watch.
 
  #22  
Old 03-12-11, 05:10 AM
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Not to resurrect an old thread, but I did it again. The over your head guy was building a deck today. All galvanized joist hanger and post base connections were made with zinc coated Tek screws! Arrrggh! No shear strength, little thread holding capability in that application, and guaranteed rust through in a few years. Then they moved over to two free standing decorative columns of an untreated wood. Yep, buried directly in holes with concrete. At least it is followed by Holmes. Makes a little more sense, anyway.
 
  #23  
Old 03-17-11, 07:14 AM
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I wish I had access to local contractors who built decks at least that good! I paid big bucks several years ago to have an 8x12 elevated (8' off the ground) deck built. They used 2x6 redwood joists on 24" centers, and 2x4 redwood boards as the decking. No joist hangers used, just nailed to the stringers. No deck screws, just nails. The whole affair held up in the air by two 4x4 posts. Unfortunately, when you live in a small town, the local "contractors" are mostly country bumpkins who could learn a LOT from the TV remodelers. Codes enforcement? Not observed in the town I live in. When I moved here, the realtor's advice on my homebuilder's reputation: "he's not as bad as the other guy".
 
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Old 03-17-11, 09:15 AM
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Did you approve their plans? Did your contract specify materials and standards? Or did you just tell one of the local bumpkins to build you a deck? Did you pull a permit? A poorly built deck 8' off the ground
can be very dangerous.
 
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Old 03-18-11, 08:36 AM
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Wayne, we don't do permits in the town I live in. There were no plans and nothing to approve. I just hired a carpenter to replace the existing 7 year old deck and he basically just replicated what the original house builder had built. The only change is that I wanted it built out of redwood rather than fir, not realizing redwood is even weaker than fir. He made a few cosmetic improvements over the original construction, but no structural changes.
 
  #26  
Old 03-18-11, 08:46 PM
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Like Wildbill most of the women I know just love these shows because they show how "easy" all these projects are. My sister saw one that had polished concrete floors and she immediately decided that was what she wanted in her new (to her, 6 year old) house. I tried to explain to her that she didn't have the sub structure for the weight of concrete along with the fact that it needed to be at least a couple of couple of inches thick for strength and the cost would be outrageous for just her powder room and three feet of hallway. Of course I was an idiot who didn't know what I was talking about until she got the exact same answer from every general and flooring contractor.

I worked with a man who had the same experience with his wife when he tried to explain that something she had seen on TV was nowhere near as simple as the show. It always took getting a professional builder in to explain the cost and difficulty.

Even This Old House (and their "ask" program) is giving out bad advice these days. The bald-headed "master plumber" is advising putting thread sealant on any threaded joint including compression and flared fittings. I wish the "plumber" that did this in my sister's house had the fittings shoved up his no sunshine place as I had to fight the compression fitting on the sink shut-off valve and also the flare fitting on the gas-range. Jerks!
 
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Old 03-19-11, 03:54 AM
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"the women I know just love these shows because they show how "easy" all these projects are"

That kind of describes my wife, she thinks you can go to the store, buy a few things and have the finished product in just a short while. She'll get a little perturbed at me when I try to explain all the steps involved to get the finished product...... or why that will work on one type of house but not be feasible on ours.
 
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Old 03-19-11, 05:14 AM
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I have my family better trained who now use a phrase instituted by my younger brother's wife, "How hard would it be to.........".
 
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Old 03-19-11, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by the_tow_guy View Post
I have my family better trained who now use a phrase instituted by my younger brother's wife, "How hard would it be to.........".
Lord! I hear that all the time! Next time somebody ask me "How hard would it be..." I will have to reply "About 5 hours and $500 hard"
 
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Old 03-19-11, 08:44 AM
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Well here's one I use to get from customers: "I want you to build me some cabinets because I can't afford the ready made ones at Home Depot."
 
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Old 03-19-11, 08:51 AM
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Ray, that's almost every week, or at least at every remodel!! Can you build me......yeah, but mine are one of a kind, custom fit and labor intensive (read - expensive). They aren't made on a production line a thousand at a time by a machine with inferior wood products. Then they want you to build it out of cheaper stuff to save money Hey, folks, labor!!
 
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Old 03-19-11, 02:09 PM
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I built my kitchen cabinets myself, partly to save money BUT it wasn't like anyone was paying me for my labor..... and I did get to buy a biscuit joiner

Box cabinets from the big box would have been quicker but I believe my cabinets should outlast me, I don't have that much confidence in the cheap store bought cabinets. Less money spent, better materials, better construction and bragging rites if anyone wants to listen
 
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Old 03-19-11, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by chandler View Post
Then they want you to build it out of cheaper stuff to save money Hey, folks, labor!!
I've had customers point at a pile of nail infested multi length lumber that has tured gray and has weeds growing through it and say, how much if you use my lumber instead of new. My usual reply was 30% more then my quote with materials.

And on the but-can't-you-just-do-it side, I had a customer in a commercial building wanted a load bearing wall removed. That brought another of my stock answers. "Show me a plan from a structural engineer and we'll discuss it."

The ones that puzzled me most were the ones who wanted me to paint. I hate painting and am lousy at it. Even had printed on my proposal sheets in large letters "NO Painting Done" but the whole time I was doing the job they kept trying to talk me into painting. Why in the heck would you try to talk someone who says they are not a good painter into painting?"
 
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Old 03-19-11, 02:57 PM
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..... because you are doing such a fine job with the carpentry and anyone can paint, right
 
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Old 03-19-11, 06:07 PM
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Nope. I'm with Ray, and don't let your head get big, but painters make carpenters look goooood. I fought with a joint one day on a compound miter crown I finally got it close. Not close enough for me, but the painter said he'd make it good....and he did!!
 
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Old 03-19-11, 07:59 PM
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So do rockers. I was installing a floor to ceiling cabinet for double ovens. It set against a base cabinet at a pass through. The pass through went all the way to the living room wall on the other side. Imagine a 90 degree corner. Up to the top of the base cabinet all was fine. By the time you got to the top of the oven cabinet at the ceiling it was sticking out into the pass through more then 1/2 inch. The rocker floated the living room wall plumb so the ceiling to floor cabinet was even with the wall all the way up.

Yes, the pass through was built wrong IMO but I didn't build it and didn't want to rebuild it.
 
  #37  
Old 03-19-11, 08:23 PM
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I love these stories!

Same thing at my sister's house. She bought a house that had been unoccupied for at least a year and had water damage from we don't know what. Some drywall had been removed from the common wall with the garage and living room exposing the plumbing but none of the plumbing had any leaks or sign that it had ever leaked. She put in a bid (bank-owned property) and got the house at a good price all things considered. Then the fun started.

I told her from the get-go I wouldn't do any drywall nor would I do any painting. She was okay with that and got bids on cleaning up the mold and doing the drywall. She at first thought that she and her son could do the painting but I told her to forget about that. Even though the house is only about five years old it had obviously been used hard with no maintenance. The entire downstairs needed to be repainted and I told her in no uncertain terms that she needed a professional to do the job. She relented but decided to do the upstairs painting herself. I also told her to get a pro for the new flooring she wanted but I would put in a floor drain for the laundry room (upstairs), install a new kitchen faucet and undersink water filter along with fixing the leaking bathtub/shower valve in the guest bathroom, installing a whole-house surge arrestor and replacing the grond rods on the electrical service. I also ran the land-line telephone and CATV cables into the garage through a conduit ell so I had a bit of drywall work to do after all.

Well, the pro painter not only finished the entire downstairs in a week he also ended up doing the master bath and a few other jobs while Kate and her son struggled with the three small bedrooms. I went over one night and watched them for a few minutes and then had to leave as I found their efforts too painful to watch. (My daddy had been a painter and I promised him on his deathbed that I would never be a painter.) Three weeks later and they STILL aren't finished. Yeah, anybody can be a painter.

I did make points with the painter by telling him that I always tell people that painting is an art as well as a trade and it takes years to become a competent painter. He liked that. I'm quite sure that Kate understands that as well now.
 
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