auto gas price hikes

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  #1  
Old 02-18-12, 05:02 AM
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auto gas price hikes

Do you take notice of the gas station that hikes the prices first thing in the morning in your city ? And then, get to watch as the other stations that day follow the leader ? ...

I do, and its the same petroleum giant every day that starts the hike. They do not get any gas or any other items for that matter, purchased from me.
 
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  #2  
Old 02-18-12, 05:23 AM
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What gets me is they raise the price with the same gas still in the tank.... that and while they are quick to raise the price - they don't get in any hurry to lower it
 
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Old 02-18-12, 05:32 AM
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Personally I can do without the economic "experts" saying things like, "Gas will be over $4 a gallon by summer....." which then immediately sets off a new round of buying and selling futures back and forth on paper between speculators which then sends the price towards.....TA-DAH $4.
 
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Old 02-18-12, 05:39 AM
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Back when gas prices first start climbing quickly, the media said it was because of the "futures" market where the players were speculating on oil prices that day. Maybe then, but not now. ...

I leave for work at 5:00 am each day from the south side of my city and notice the Shell stations price just around the corner from me at 5:05 am....

When I get to the east side of town where I work at 5:15 am, as I drive along I notice all of the different named stations posted prices as I pass, and they still have the previous days pricing. By 9:00 am, all the east side gas prices have been raised to within one cent per gallon under Shell's....

I have been noticing this for two years now, and its always Shell that leads the way on price hikes, and always averaging a 15-20 cent per gallon hike when they boost it overnight.
 
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Old 02-18-12, 06:02 AM
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Likewise, we have a guy who owns a BP on one corner and a Citgo on the opposite corner at a rather large intersection. I notice he keeps his regular gas one cent different to prevent charges of price fixing. His diesel is always high. Now the kicker is, his prices are the same as all the other stations, BUT his is CASH, meaning there is a 7 cent bump if you use your credit or debit card. He is a neighbor on an adjoining valley, and I have told him why I don't buy fuel from him. He ain't from here, so I guess he has his way of doing business.
I don't buy fuel from Citgo anyway, but that's a political matter between me and Hugo Chavez, and I'll leave it at that.
Diesel prices are a gouge, anyway. Hey, it used to be a waste product. Now it is a gold mine.
 
  #6  
Old 02-18-12, 10:16 AM
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Around here, Speedway is first up and last down. When they jump prices, it is only a few hours before most others jump to the new level. I just checked, and in a 20 mile radius, the price of regular is from $3.08 to $ 3.59 and is on the rise.
 
  #7  
Old 02-18-12, 11:05 AM
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It is all just a supply, demand and inventory situation.

Most stations have limited inventory volume, so they have to sell according to the demand. The refiners also have inventory limitations that control the price sold to stations and the way they refine the crude oil for different uses.

Here, our prices vary by the day of the week because we have many people that leave town for week-ends. The prices go up about noon on a Thursday and then down sometime on Monday morning after rush hour.

With 100,000+ people leaving for every weekend, that is a lot of fuel and our local area always seems to be cheaper than the cabin/resort areas. Add in the fuel for boats and snowmobiles, that gets to be a big number of gallons and often beyond the capacity for smaller stations.

We also have it compounded because I am 15 miles from the border with the Peoples Republic of Wisconsin and all the commuters from WI buy their gas in MN because the tax is less and they do not want to fill up in WI on a daily basis. the line ups at a station before and after working hours can be too long, but the prices are not too high because the stations know schedule/routine and can schedule deliveries to keep the tanks topped off before the busy times.

At least we have a couple of refineries locally and are not like Iran that has few refineries and has to import gasoline while they export crude oil.

The real pricing is dictated by the supply and inventory capacity, the ability to afford to keep fuel since at $3.00 (including taxes) per gallon, a load of fuel could cost $20,000 and that is the reason so many small station operators have gone out of business since they cannot afford the inventory cost.

Dick
 
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Old 02-18-12, 11:31 AM
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There may also be laws limiting how much the price can increase in one day. I know that is true here in NJ. I think the limit is 12 cents. So large spikes in gasoline prices on the market can be hard for the stations to absorb if they can't raise their price fast enough.
 
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Old 02-18-12, 02:56 PM
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My father used to have a gas station in Maryland and the gas company he dealed with which I will not name used to always push him around. They first told him if you want cheaper supplies like tires,batteries etc. which he had to buy from them under contract, you need to sell x number of gallons of gas per day. My father belonged to a service station association that helped the little guy like my father stand up to the big gas company. The gas company didn't like that though as they got laws passed that allowed service station dealers who owned their own business to be able to buy supplies from anyone they wanted to. So they could no longer hold the lease over my fathers head for that but could make him stay open 24 hours which is what he didn't want to do but since they were sub leasing to him he had no choice. They also owned the gas that was pumped until it was sold as that was in his contract too. So about every day my father would have to change the prices for gas on his sign. My father believe me was glad when he retired from his business and all of the politics that went into running a gas station. So I hope when you go past a certain gas station that you will remember that the gas station manager might just own that gas station and is in the same boat as you are. He or she as there are some women now who own gas stations usually has no control over those prices. They can lower them for a few hours but it will be at their own peril as they are the ones who will have to pay to the gas company for the difference since the price is fixed by the gas company for that day or even a particular hour or so.
 
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Old 02-18-12, 04:48 PM
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It is all just a supply, demand and inventory situation

Blah, blah and blah.....I find your whole post to be bullfeathers. Did you notice Exxon only made 9 BILLION in profits last quarter yet we are now exporting refined fuels to make even more, hell with OUR own economy and try to get things rolling again?

Oil companies can kiss me where the sun doesn't shine.
 
  #11  
Old 02-18-12, 05:03 PM
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That's right. The guys that yank it out of the ground make the most money here. Not the ones who sell the end products. It costs Exxon about $1 a barrel to extract it from the ground.
 
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Old 02-18-12, 07:19 PM
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It may only cost $1/barrel (cheap) to get it out of the ground once you have the rights to do that.

Then, you have to get the rights to pump and transfer the crude somewhere (maybe 1000-2000 miles) and maintain the pipeline or shipping ports.

Then, you have to get the oil to refinery (possibly owned by a competitor or conglomerate).

The refiner will then refine the crude into what the market needs and store the refined product in large tanks. - Iran does have a lot of crude and few refineries so they import gasoline.

Then, the fuel needs to be trucked at about $1-$2 per mile or more to a local distribution point that may be a regional storage facility or just a local station where the station operator pays over $20,000 for an 8000 gallon load. Then it up to the station operator pay for it, to store, dispense and provide storage, insurance and motoring. The eastern U.S. is the biggest benefiter since they use a lot of oil and gas and are far from the sources, although liquid natural gas is shipped much cheaper by tanker with minimal processing costs. Unfortunately there are not too many people that can befit from this.

I may have missed a few steps along the way (like water shipment and tanker costs), but the gas that is put into your tank at an "Exxon" station may not have come from an "Exxon" well or refined at facility controlled by "Exxon", but probably has a contract with "Exxon" to use the name and be guaranteed a certain amount of fuel.

Some of the Canadian or U.S. crude is shipped to China (close and cheap water transport) because of the economics and is then refined there just as the U.S. imports crude and then refines it.

The name people see at the pump is just an image and does to define who drilled the wells, pumped it, refined it, stored it and distributed it. It is a complicated international business that has many partners/competitors dealing with each other on big investments. The investment in a local station is the reason most have gone "belly-up" because they cannot afford to handle and store the product and sell it at a profit. The big oil companies are not interested in running a local station unless it sells a lot of coffee, rolls and cigarettes and does not do too much in cash sales despite the surcharge from the credit card companies.

Dick
 
  #13  
Old 02-19-12, 08:05 PM
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Those oil companies are tuff, that is who put my father out of business. They wanted him to put in bigger tank, which the town wouldn't let him do, so the oil company stop delivering gas.
 
  #14  
Old 02-20-12, 05:15 AM
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I predict gas will be up a dime a gallon by the end of the week [just wanted to get in ahead of the experts this time].
 
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Old 02-20-12, 09:14 AM
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I'd say that's a pretty safe bet, local gas prices have been rising about a dime a week for the last month or so
 
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Old 02-20-12, 09:30 AM
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A dime my aching aunt fanny. My nearest gas dispensery jumped from 3.17 to 3.49 overnight. It all adds up to one word - Greed.
 
  #17  
Old 02-20-12, 10:45 AM
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I don't really consider my self to be that old. But when I first started driving, gas sure was a lot cheaper, and I believe it was better to. The other day I was filling up, 60 bucks. Then I had a flash back. I went from NY, to FL, and back for a wedding, and that whole trip didn't cost me that much. And I wasn't driving a gas sipper either, it was a 340 duster, and I wasn't sparing the horses either. If you ever tried to keep up with a gray hound bus, you know what I mean. Those babies use really roll back in the day. It cost me more to fill my lawn tractor, then most car back then could hold.
 
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Old 02-20-12, 11:07 AM
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Well...back when I was a teen and working PT for $1.50-2.00 an hour....I could fill the tank on my GTO for a whole weekends cruising/racing for about $5-7. Still hurt like crazy in my wallet. I made up for any I needed with a hose and my Dads truck....shhhhhh. (Why did I have a newer hotter car when I was 17 than I do now?)

I try not to even look at the prices anymore...I need what I need. Luckily a tank in my car normally lasts a month, wifes SUV about 2 weeks.
 
  #19  
Old 02-20-12, 02:01 PM
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I think a great deal of the reason why gas prices are so high is because of this administration in office now. The president has been focusing too much on electric powered vehicles and solar energy all of which are great things and yes do help get us away from energy independence but are not the whole picture. Take electric cars for instance they have greatly improved over the years but can you afford one and where are all of those electric charging stations that have been promised? Not many of those in my neighborhood only two at an organic grocery store I go to and very few anywhere else and I live near enough to the nations capital that there really should be more. Then too there is the safety factor what people don't realize is that those batteries can explode if there is ever an accident. The cars in crash tests haven't fared near as well as in a gas powered vehicle either so the likely hood of surviving a crash in one isn't as high as in a gas powered car. As for solar cells well those are great to have and do bring your electric bill down but the cost for them even with rebates is really more than what most people can afford. Just recently within a few months the president who talks about energy independence and having more jobs struck down an idea from oil companies for a pipeline for oil coming from Canada to over here. This pipeline could have helped us be more independent from oil from the middle east but instead now we have higher prices and it isn't just because of that but other mistakes made by this administration. So politics both with the internal politics I mentioned from the oil companies and external politics plays a great deal in the price of gas. I think they said recently on the news before Obama the price of gas was $1.84 a gallon just before Obama was in office and now the average price is somewhere near $3.55 a gallon.
 
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Old 02-20-12, 02:27 PM
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I think a great deal of the reason why gas prices are so high is because of this administration in office now.
Seriously? Did you forget the 8 years of the Bush administration? The run up in oil prices then? Remember the all time record price of oil? Somewhere in the neighborhood of $150 a barrel. That wasn't during this administration.

I think they said recently on the news before Obama the price of gas was $1.84 a gallon just before Obama was in office and now the average price is somewhere near $3.55 a gallon.
Do you remember October of 2008 when the stock market collapsed and brought the economy down with it? That was right at the end of the Bush administration. So Obama comes in when the demand for oil is at its lowest in years because of the economic collapse that happened prior to his swearing in. Somehow it is his fault that demand is now higher and caused the price to rise? Somehow a few months of gas prices being ridiculously low means something to the long term price rise of gas?

It's amazing how people forget the 4 decades of poor political leadership that led us to the current situation we are in. At this point, there is little that can be done to bring down the price of oil. The demand is far too great. The only way to avoid the high cost is to reduce your usage.
 
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Old 02-20-12, 02:51 PM
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No actually I didn't forget how bad the Bush administration handled a great deal of things including Katrina the hurricane down in New Orleans and the oil pumpers off the coast of New Orleans that were off for several weeks. The reason though for the greater demand though is that now jobs are harder to get. Sure the job outlook has improved somewhat but some of those jobs were only temporary like the ones for census workers as they were counted too when they had a temporary job. I totally agree with you president Bush was out to lunch on a great deal of things and the company Enron which should have been investigated better by the Bush administration helped to bring down a great deal of businesses with it and that was only the tip of the ice berg. But you have to admit more really could have been done now to help improve things more and more jobs could be created if businesses hands were not tied behind there backs and that includes the oil companies and any other business. This president does deserve some applause though he saved some automobile manufacturers from closing something by the way that might have been settled on its own by a corporate buy out from other companies over seas with people still retaining their jobs. But I can see both sides to that issue as the president and others were worried after all that that would not happen. While that was a great accomplishment it also stirred up more interest in people buying more cars to go to their jobs which are further out now than they used to be.
 
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Old 02-20-12, 03:10 PM
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:NO NO NO: :NO NO NO: :NO NO NO:

On politics....Or I'll close this down in a NY microsecond.
 
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Old 02-20-12, 03:31 PM
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My first car was a 59 Ford Galaxie. Gas was .25 a gallon so I could take my high school sweetie to the burger joint and get her fries and a coke for another .75 cents. Dang, I think just depressed myself......
 
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Old 02-20-12, 03:50 PM
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No politics intended, Vic, but Drill, baby, drill!! We are our own nemesis by not using our own overwhelming resources, but opting to buy from offshore.
 
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Old 02-20-12, 04:46 PM
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I wonder what happened to the hydrogen car concept ? It looked good on paper, but never made it of out of the chute ?
 
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Old 02-20-12, 04:54 PM
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I'm not sure if they are still working on a hydrogen car or not. I know one of the most promising technologies is the hydrogen fuel cell.

The problem with hydrogen is that we get it from fossil fuels. So there isn't much advantage there. So the challenge is to get hydrogen from another source that doesn't require more energy to get it out than it yields.
 
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Old 02-20-12, 05:05 PM
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I wonder what happened to the hydrogen car concept ? It looked good on paper, but never made it of out of the chute ?
I think Chevy's still working on it, I rode in theirs last year.

51 seconds...darn.
 
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Old 02-20-12, 08:07 PM
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I wonder what happened to the hydrogen car concept ? It looked good on paper, but never made it of out of the chute ?
I am pretty sure we all have heard the stories of the 100 mile caub, or this or that thing, that is suppose increase mileage. That was bought up, and setting in some gas company closet. Is there any truth to this. I know I wouldn't want some one making something that would make my product last longer, and cutting in to my profit.
 
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Old 02-21-12, 04:07 AM
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We have a couple of "inventor" guys around town who own a nursery and piddle with biodiesel for their Cummins. They even have a hydrogen generator on it, which meters hydrogen into the mix. Not sure how that works, but they seem to get around pretty well with it.
Droo, IIRC, hydrogen isn't an expensive extraction. At least not like making alcohol from corn....duh! Yes fossil fuel is used to electrolyze the water to extract the hydrogen, but in the car concept I saw, the electrolyzation (spell check says it isn't a word) takes place in the car itself via generator. I know they were proposing Hydrogen filling stations, which would probably not work very well due to volatility.
 
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Old 02-21-12, 02:44 PM
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In my own personal opinion I think the hydrogen car was scrapped for the electric cars and the hybrid gas and electric cars out there as they are easier to get fuel for and not as dangerous although as I said before they don't do well in crashes and the batteries can explode but those things can be worked on to make the cars safer. Take the VW Beetle for instance when they first came out in the 60's and 70's they turned into sardine cans after an accident but now are much safer due to better engineering. The other problem with electric cars is that they are too quiet and I realized once exactly how quiet they were by almost getting hit by one. They are working on that too though by trying to introduce some sound so you know when they are approaching.
What I really wonder about though is whatever happened to the idea of being able to use used cooking oil. Some fellows I heard were pumping used cooking oil out of the grease pits of fast food restaurants and using that to fuel a vehicle they had made. Apparently it had a very efficient engine and it didn't pollute the air as much as other engines. If it had made it then you could have went to your favorite fast food place and ordered a hamburger and fries and then had your car filled up too. I guess that plan was scrapped too unless someone here has heard otherwise.
 
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Old 02-21-12, 03:02 PM
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being able to use used cooking oil
Those guys I mentioned do just that, except they are running a diesel, and refine the oil to an extent that makes it usable. You can fall in behind them and it smells like McDonalds. Only one problem....you can't start it nor can you turn the engine off while using the oil. It congeals too quickly and fuel in the lines will be obstructed. They installed a switch valve to start and end their trips on diesel from the diesel tank, then switch to Mickey Dee's on the road.
 
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Old 02-21-12, 04:26 PM
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We have a couple of "inventor" guys around town who own a nursery and piddle with biodiesel for their Cummins. They even have a hydrogen generator on it, which meters hydrogen into the mix. Not sure how that works, but they seem to get around pretty well with it.
I don't know for sure it is the same device, but I have seen this before and it is quite the scam.

Droo, IIRC, hydrogen isn't an expensive extraction. At least not like making alcohol from corn....duh! Yes fossil fuel is used to electrolyze the water to extract the hydrogen, but in the car concept I saw, the electrolyzation (spell check says it isn't a word) takes place in the car itself via generator. I know they were proposing Hydrogen filling stations, which would probably not work very well due to volatility.
I don't think the expense is the issue. It's the concept that is the problem. Getting hydrogen from fossil fuel means you still rely on fossil fuel.

I think the car concept you saw was a hydrogen fuel cell. They use that to generate electricity for the electric motors in the car. The fuel cell will solve many issues if they are ever able to produce it cheaply. I saw one show that discussed this. I don't think the guy actually had the setup, but talked about how you could have one in your home with about 4 gallons of water. That would be "charged" up by solar panels on your roof and store enough energy to meet the needs of your home for one day.
 
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Old 02-21-12, 05:28 PM
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They are putting a biodiesel plant in Port Carbon.
 
  #34  
Old 02-22-12, 03:27 AM
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YouTube has a lot of videos with the DIYers putting home made hydrogen boosters on their cars. ...

Those home grown scientist's on YouTube that do not fear self detonation, at least caught my inquisitive interest. So, I googled hydrogen car systems. ....

I found there is a LOT of manufacturers that produce the self contained "brown gas" manufacturing kits for cars/trucks, some are quite impressive looking. ...

I then went to the car forums that I hang out on and asked the members about the validity of these hydrogen kits and asked will they increase MPG the reported 25-35 %. ....

Wow, after they finished selling me some bridges in Arizona, they said they were all just snake oil. They did make a valid point though, I have not met anyone that has a hydro kit on their vehicle in the last 20 years. ...

It is either the publics best kept secret or the successful hydro kit owners do not want to be put on the Arizona bridge sales list.
 
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Old 02-22-12, 04:45 AM
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Hey! We have some great bridges.....of course most of them we have to share with CA or NV. Here's one.....

Not for sale, sorry....

Now....oceanfront property...we don't have. Lots of lakefront stuff though.
 
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Old 02-23-12, 09:51 PM
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Nice picture you took Gunguy I assume that is in Arizona. Where in Arizona is that? Just curious.
 
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Old 02-24-12, 04:34 AM
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Never been on that one, but I've driven across the big concrete one it replaced.

[That's Hoover Dam upstream]
 
  #38  
Old 02-29-12, 12:59 PM
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gas prices

you can be happy. here in Europe we have so much more expensive gas. we pay 1,46 euros for a liter. that's 5,53 euros for a gallon or 7,43 dolars for a galon. that's is expensive, but we're not complaining. It's true that we have bigger wages, but here in Europe is everything so much expensive. especally food, electronics and car. new middle-class car cost us around 15 000 - 25 000 euros. that's 20 000 - 34 000 dollars. don't ask me how much cost apple products or anyother devices. but i'm happy because we have a free healthcare. when you need a dentist you just go there and he repair your teeths for free, and when you need any other heltcare is also everything free. life in america is so cheap. you can eat very cheap in mcdonalds - here in europe you can't. So be happy it could be worse.
 
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Old 02-29-12, 01:37 PM
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Actually...I didn't take that..it was from the "Hoover Dam Bypass" website I think. We watched it being built though, and walked across it at the grand opening. Amazing to see the workers climbing around during the construction almost 1000 ft above the river. I have pictures looking DOWN on the dam...pretty awesome.

You can still drive across the dam...but only from the NV side. They closed the AZ side access. So you actually drive over the bridge, then go back a few miles to the dam.






And here's one of the NV side generator room...it's hard to get a sense of the actual size of this thing. Remember...most of the turbines are below the floor you see. And the smell of ozone is strong for those who know that arcing motor smell.
 
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Old 02-29-12, 02:48 PM
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Still kicking myself for not taking the tour inside the dam, don't think you can do that anymore. While in Vegas in the early eighties we rented a car and walked over the dam, didn't go inside.

 
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