Round #2 in the great fat pill debate

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  #1  
Old 07-26-12, 06:19 AM
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Round #2 in the great fat pill debate

There was a meeting yesterday in NYC as the mayor and his minions continue their war against the Slurpee. Their intent is to ban oversize, oversweetened drinks in NYC becasue they feel it is responsible for the "obesity epidemic."

In a corrollary event some local activist group in CT mustered a bunch of kids with signs to protest the fact that federal tax money is being used to subsidize corn and soy production. Their thinking is that corn is used to produce corn syrup which is used to make Twinkies and other nasty products. Of course it's all about money. The activists get a cause (no matter that it was invented) and the TV news gives them publicity

In response to the NYC proposed ban a local TV station polled viewers and asked if the government should be able to dictate what people eat. The results were one sided. An overwhelming 92% of the responders felt that in a free country it is none of the governments business if a citizen wants a slurpee.

Yet the debate in NY continues because as we all know, most of us are totally incapable of taking care of ourselves and we should be grateful that there are politicians and government bureaucrats to oversee our welfare.
 
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Old 07-26-12, 06:25 AM
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Where would we be if we didn't have the gov't to oversee our welfare

When I was young I always got the biggest meal/drinks I could afford and was skinny, now I try to watch what I eat or drink so I can keep my weight down just under 200 lbs..... but I guess if we rely on the gov't to mandate our every move - we won't have to take personal responsibility
 
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Old 07-26-12, 07:13 AM
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Wayne ????



Their intent is to ban oversize, over sweetened drinks in NYC because they feel it is responsible for the "obesity epidemic."
I am all for it. The USA is slowly poisoning people with food that has no nutrients and highly processed. " High Fructose corn syrup is bad!!!"

local activist group in CT mustered a bunch of kids with signs to protest the fact that federal tax money is being used to subsidize corn and soy production.

local activist group in CT mustered a bunch of kids with signs to protest the fact that federal tax money is being used to subsidize corn and soy production. Their thinking is that corn is used to produce corn syrup which is used to make Twinkies and other nasty products. Of course it's all about money.

Corn is in everything. Its also genetically modified. As is the soybean that is patent and a round up ready crop. Spray round up to kill the weeds and the soybean still lives. But now there is a super-weed that round up cant kill. They want to use "AGENT ORANGE"

In response to the NYC proposed ban a local TV station polled viewers and asked if the government should be able to dictate what people eat. The results were one sided. An overwhelming 92% of the responders felt that in a free country it is none of the governments business if a citizen wants a Slurpee.


Everything you eat is controlled by the government. Cant get around it unless you grow your own.

Yet the debate in NY continues because as we all know, most of us are totally incapable of taking care of ourselves and we should be grateful that there are politicians and government bureaucrats to oversee our welfare.
They should ban all soda IMO. Look at the precious water that is waster to make a non healthy sugary drink.


If more states and such start banning more processed food the government, farmers, and the big GMO companies will be forced to produce quality organic vegetables, beef, chicken and what not.

Probably will not happen because too many are addicted to MC, Donald's, soda, processed foods and such.


Just my opinion.















 
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Old 07-26-12, 07:40 AM
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It's not as much what you eat as it is what you do with the energy obtained by those foods.
It kills me to see people consuming those energy drinks when you know damn well all that sugar and other stuff is not going to be used for anything.

I'll admit that I don't watch what I eat. I do have two young boys that sure help me burn off all that I consume though.
 
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Old 07-26-12, 11:06 AM
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Mike you are missing the point .

The point is not what is being consumed. The point is does the government of a free people have the right to dictate to those people what they consume? Did you miss the part where 92% of responders opposed the ban?

After the Slurpees are banned, what's next? Butter, cheeseburgers, or God forbid, fried green tomatoes? You can choose whatever dietary regimen you want for yourself and your family, but you can't choose for the guy next door. That's not the way a free society is supposed to work.

Not looking to start an argument but as you research things like genetic plant mods and high fructose corn syrup look beyond the special interest groups
that populate the internet and ask yourself what is behind their existance. The reason corn syrup has such a bad rap is because it has made a serious dent in the cane sugar industry's rice bowl. Corn syrup is cheaper, simple as that.

There are a lot of bandwagon organizations that have climbed on board because they smell money generated by the debate. However, as you visit their sites, look for the science and examine their conclusions closely. Also understand that when it comes to grant/charitable organizations usually no controversy equals no money.

I have an in law that has an advanced degree in chemistry. We had a discussion about this, much of the stuff she had to say went over my head, but I understood her conclusion. Chemically it is a sugar (legally it is not) and as such it has health implications but they are no different than for someone consuming too much cane sugar.
Then you can research geneticly engineered plant products. Be especially dilligent in finding documented examples of adverse health issues in humans linked to GMP. I do know that in developing countries GMP crops have helped reduce the use of pesticides and water consumption and given the documented increase in yield they quite likely have saved lives.

It is the government's job to do the research, to determine health benefits and risks and to inform it's citizens. It is the informed citizen's job to decide for themselves what foods they should consume.

Anybody remember the movie "SOYLENT GREEN?"
 
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Old 07-26-12, 11:09 AM
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I don't like all of those sugary drinks nor do I like drinks that have a great deal of sodium in them. Sodium you say that can't be, take a look at the label of any diet soda and you will see sodium in there. So diet or not any soda can be bad for you and you really shouldn't drink it. That being said though do we really want anyone be it Democrat or Republican telling us what we can't or can have this after all is supposed to be a democracy and not a dictatorship.
While I agree that sodas are bad for you do we really want to go back to the bad old days of prohibition only instead of it being liquor now it is soda pop and people are running borders with machine guns because they can't have their soda. It sounds crazy but if someone wants something bad enough he or she will do about anything to get it. I say the smart thing for the politicians to do and anyone else who doesn't care for soda is to talk to the manufacturers and even have the FDA issue standards as to how much sugar and sodium can go in a soda in my opinion.
 
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Old 07-26-12, 11:27 AM
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Old 07-26-12, 11:50 AM
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Mike you are missing the point .
I dont think I am. I think you may be taking it as a polititical sense IMO. Such as big brother cant tell us what to do?

The point is does the government of a free people have the right to dictate to those people what they consume? Did you miss the part where 92% of responders opposed the ban?

92 percent have the same thinking that "the government will not control what I do". But let look at reality that most people dont know or don't get it. All they are worried about is losing a couple of oz in a soda. Ridicules IMO.

The government has been controlling what you eat long ago. Started around 1948 when Earl Butz became the head of the department of agriculture. The reason we have so much food in the stores today is because of him. The food you buy today has low nutritional valve. Its modified and processed.

He told all the farmers to produce, produce, produce... And to get that amount of production crops need modification. Harvest before ripe, GMO seeds, soil thats cant support the plant so load on some chemical fertilizer...

Your not feeding America, your starving America. Sure your belly might be full, but there is no nutritional value.

People tell me "Oh organic is so expensive" I tell them "well how much does cancer cost?" Or how much to keep you on medicine because your sick. Obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc....

Most if not all disease and sickness can be cured with proper nutrition. The doctors are not taught this. Ever go to the doctor for something? Did any doctor ever ask you what are you eating? Probably not. They are only treating the symptom.

I could go on and on, and you might think I am out there in left field, but we need better quality food in this country period.

So in summary we should start boycotting food to make the government take action. This way we will be in control.

Instead of worrying about a slurpee we should worry that they are feeding cow to cows and not grass. ( mad cow disease) Taking the slurpee away could only be a good thing.

We should worry that the department of agriculture issues a patent to Monsanto who owns and controls the soybean which is GMO. Pretty soon you will not be able to buy any non GMO seeds in the world and everything will be modified.


Note: This is just positive feed back and no argument is intended. This is just my views on food issues.


 
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Old 07-26-12, 01:08 PM
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OK here is a briefing transcript from Washington. the begining talks about our drought situation

My point I guess is company's like nestle and these other large company's pump hundreds of millions and millions of gallons of water from the ground for soft drinks and such.

We need water to live not soft drinks.


Press Briefing by Press Secretary Jay Carney and Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack | The White House

That's all I am posting on this thread....LOL. I think I said enough, but really it goes way beyond the Slurpee thing.

I stand by my comments and say its a good thing.

Soylent green is a movie not reality!!!
 
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Old 07-26-12, 01:11 PM
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Mike,

No argument at all. A discussion. I know that you are concerned about chemicals in the food chain. So is everyone else. It is the government's job to monitor, inform and correct.

It is not the governments job to dictate what I can consume when the product has no intrinsic harmful content (i.e. sugar). The argument in the proposed government ban is that serving large containers of an otherwise benign produt is partially responsible for obesity. My point is that a person has the right to determine for themselves whether or not they want to be obese.

By the way - do you drink water? If you do, take a look at the chemicals that are allowed to be in your muni drinkling supply. Lots of carcinogens there. Drink bottled water? Odds are that it is tap water with, in some cases, additional filtering.

Obviously we disagree about the safety of GMP and the danger of corn syrup. I doubt that anything will change that. But this discussion is about government treading on the toes of free citizens.
 
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Old 07-26-12, 01:38 PM
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I think a lot of it boils down to common sense..... and you can't legislate that, can you?

I know sodas aren't all that healthy. I like mountain dew but I also know I'm best off if I don't drink more than 1 in a days time. I know that if I drink 5-10 sodas a day like some folks do - I'll gain too much weight. I also like the all you can eat restaurants but try to only go to them once or twice a month. Again if I ate there several times every week - I'd have a hard time keeping the weight off.

I agree that this country has a weight problem. I think it's caused by both an unhealthy diet and lack of exercise. Education helps but some folks never learn. Should we all do without certain items just to keep the stupid or lazy folks from gaining too much weight? Should we ban cookies, cake and candy bars too
 
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Old 07-26-12, 01:48 PM
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For the people that say high fructose corn syrup is really really bad and that sugar is good, I always ask, what is in HFC that makes it so dangerous? I get no answer to that. I typically get an answer about how it is a highly processed product and that makes it dangerous. The is very little difference between the two. They are both made up of fructose and glucose. Sugar is a disacharide while HFc is a monosacharide. That means the fructose and glucose molecules are bonded to each other in sugar and in HFC, they are not. As it turns out, HFC is very similar to honey. Honey happens to include local pollens that HFC does not. People against HFC 2want to point the finger at it for the obesity epidemic. As if somehow the single ingredient is the problem. It isn't. It is lifestyle. Far more families have turned to ready made products in the grocery store to feed themselves. It's really easy to do when you don't have a lot of time with two working parents. I find it laughable that somehow using sugar over HFC would stop obesity. You would find little difference between a person who had an unhealthy diet heavy in HFC vs. a person who had an unhealthy diet heavy in fruit. They will both be fat and likely to develop diabetes.

I still don't understand the problem with GMO. I have yet to hear any downside to any GMO product. They have been around for quite a awhile. Who has been harmed by GMO? All I get is that because it's been fooled with in a lab, it somehow makes it dangerous by default.
 
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Old 07-26-12, 02:26 PM
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By the way - do you drink water?
Yes

If you do, take a look at the chemicals that are allowed to be in your muni drinkling supply. Lots of carcinogens there.
I dont drink munipal water. Never did.

Drink bottled water?
No. Unless I have to.

But this discussion is about government treading on the toes of free citizens.

I agree to some extent but its much larger then that IMO.




Should we all do without certain items just to keep the stupid or lazy folks from gaining too much weight? Should we ban cookies, cake and candy bars too

IMO yes. Along with cigarettes.


or the people that say high fructose corn syrup is really really bad and that sugar is good, I always ask, what is in HFC that makes it so dangerous? I get no answer to that.
All sugar is bad IMO unless you get it naturally from fruits an vegetables. There is no need for added sugar in your diet IMO and all these sweet processed drinks and food are killing people. And its the fructose part of the sugar that's bad IMO

Salt is a whole other issue like sugar.

People against HFC 2want to point the finger at it for the obesity epidemic. As if somehow the single ingredient is the problem. It isn't. It is lifestyle. Far more families have turned to ready made products in the grocery store to feed themselves.
What else are you going to buy? What in the store is not processed?


You would find little difference between a person who had an unhealthy diet heavy in HFC vs. a person who had an unhealthy diet heavy in fruit. They will both be fat and likely to develop diabetes.
I disagree. Whats the comparasion to the amount of sugar in a apple or soda?

An apple about 15g

Here you could look here on how much sugar you get with your big gulps and such.

How Much Sugar in Sodas and Beverages?


I would ban it all, but I guess why should I care about other people. What I care about is making a stand for my kids health and what will happen seven generations ahead



I still don't understand the problem with GMO. I have yet to hear any downside to any GMO product.


I don't have time to type all that....LOL










 
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Old 07-26-12, 02:41 PM
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All sugar is bad IMO unless you get it naturally from fruits an vegetables. There is no need for added sugar in your diet IMO and all these sweet processed drinks and food are killing people. And its the fructose part of the sugar that's bad IMO

Salt is a whole other issue like sugar.
Fructose is exactly what is in fruit. Sure, the fruit does carry some nutrition. But tell me exactly what it is in fruit that negates the negative effects of the fructose in the fruit?

I read an interesting opinion piece on salt in the NYT not too long ago. It was interesting. It made a case against low sodium diets. Talked about how support for low sodium diets came about, etc etc.

What else are you going to buy? What in the store is not processed?
Grocery stores still have fully stocked produce and meat sections. That is what you have to eat when you remove all processed food from the shelves. And that is what a healthy diet consists of.

I disagree. Whats the comparasion to the amount of sugar in a apple or soda?

An apple about 15g

Here you could look here on how much sugar you get with your big gulps and such.
You are comparing one soda to one apple. I'm am comparing a lifestyle of living on sugar. If you get most of your calories from sugar, you will not be eating one apple or drinking one soda. 3,000 calories a day from sugar is bad whether it comes from fruits or soda.

As far as the GMO, I will accept links to look at. The bit about the roundup resistant soybeans is a problem with farming practice, not a problem with GMO soybeans. I want to find out about negative health effects cause directly by GMO products.
 
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Old 07-26-12, 03:27 PM
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fried green tomatoes
Wayne, y'all were doin' just fine without comin' down on a southern staple item. Similarly, grits.
People are in charge of their own destinies. You have to look closely at what and how much you eat. If you deem it harmful, find something to take it's place or reduce the amount. We have always grown organically so I feel we are eating healthy. I won't deny myself a good slab of meat if I desire it in moderation. I don't drink alcohol, except home made wine, don't smoke, and only occasionally enjoy a slurpy mouthful of RedMan Golden Blend. BUT, I don't want the government telling me what is good for me. Far be it for them to even know what is good for me. Y'all go on, but leave out the fried green tomatoes!!
 
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Old 07-26-12, 04:38 PM
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I need to pull the troops back and regroup. Need more ammunition.

Ill be back!!!
 
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Old 07-26-12, 05:31 PM
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OK lets curb the sugar thing first. I will address GMO food later

I know this is a long program 1 1/2 hour) but it should enlighten some of you out there.

After you watch this tell me what you think of the original question of banning large drinks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
 
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Old 07-27-12, 05:36 AM
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Larry, you misunderstood me. I love fried green tomatoes. I was trying to say that if the government is allowed to ban Slurpees are things like butter and fried green tomatoes going to be far behind?
 
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Old 07-27-12, 05:40 AM
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Pardon my ignorance, but why is the government worried about food portions and what not when the economy down there is still in the dump?

Almost looks like they are avoiding the real issues with stupid nanny items.


When I looked at relocating to the US for a short term (3yrs), I could buy a decent house for less then what I've paid for a new car, but in 3yrs time, I'd probably have a hard time getting rid of it.
 
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Old 07-27-12, 09:10 AM
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The biggest freedom we have in this country, in my opinion, is the freedom of choice. That includes the freedom to make the 'wrong' choice.
 
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Old 07-27-12, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mitch17
The biggest freedom we have in this country, in my opinion, is the freedom of choice. That includes the freedom to make the 'wrong' choice.
And you take that freedom away and suddenly the country as a whole gets stupider.

Almost sounds like someone is dodging the important stuff at hand for feel good crap.
 
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Old 07-27-12, 10:54 AM
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And you take that freedom away and suddenly the country as a whole gets stupider.

Almost sounds like someone is dodging the important stuff at hand for feel good crap.
The important stuff is that the FDA controls the pharmaceuticals IMO and the real issues have to be addressed. What is feel good c#*p? Its feels good to side with the statistical # of people that are appalled by restricting large drinks?

It seems somewhat of tip toeing around the video I posted that no comments where made on it. If the video was not watched in its entirely then individuals cannot really comment. It only takes 1 hour and 29 minutes to watch. People need to look outside the box and look at the big picture IMO . It seems to me people go through life with blinders on and are focused on issues at hand only because its in the media and want to feel part of a cause. A cause that is unimportant because it stems from something much larger that few can understand.

I just find it odd that no one has addressed my video and everyone feels the most important item on their list is to not let government tell you what you can and cannot do. I know what the original post stated, but it goes beyond that IMO.

If it was looked past the Slurpee issue and more in depth information as to its root cause, it should be apparent that the government has been force feeding America for years.

Take it back farther. Lets stop feeding cow to cows. Lets stop the crazy additives in foods for the sake of $$$....etc,etc,etc. Its all controlled by the government (food) and this is where it needs to stop, at the higher level. Its crazy to waste resources on the Slurpee argument.

I addressed the sugar question, that stems from the original post. Its the best study out there to date. What has anyone else produced? IMO if the video is not an eye opener then its a blind eye that's leading.

An old quote I used to hear all the time.

"Whats the difference between ignorance and arrogance"? "I don't know and I don't care"?

( Oh. And remember. This is a constructive thread IMO and my personal opinions on what I feel is going on in America. I almost feel like a black sheep regarding this and find it hard to believe there is not a member out there that sides with the information I am discussing. Statistics show some 30 million plus in America are on board with this thinking. Too many peoples thinking IMO is " Its not going to happen in my lifetime, so who cares"? " You have to die from something"

My posts here are not meant of offend anyone or addressed to anyone specifically
what so ever )



 
  #23  
Old 07-27-12, 03:33 PM
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Mike - You answered your own question regarding the video. It's one and a half hours long! However, I watched a part of it at least until it seemed that he was making a point that I had already conceded. Eating too much sugar is not good for you. OK. Does that mean the government shouild regulate your sugar intake?

" The important stuff is that the FDA controls the pharmaceuticals IMO and the real issues have to be addressed. What is feel good c#*p? Its feels good to side with the statistical # of people that are appalled by restricting large drinks?"

This sentence makes absolutely no sense to me. I have no idea what you mean. The FDA does indeed control pharmecuticals and while not perfect I think most people agree that's agood thing. Was that your point? I'm still trying to figure out how the food police are going to keep people from buying two 16 oz sugar drinks. I guess when that starts happening the government will have to ban those too.

Your comments about BSE are misinformed. "Feeding cows to cows" (feed containing bone meal and other cow byproducts) was identified as the BSE culprit early on and that practice was stopped. Do you have the numbvers yet on how many people in the US died of BSE vs the amount of beef consumed in the US?

How many US deaths from BSE?
How many US deaths from GMP?
How many US deaths from the consumption of corn syrup instead of cane sugar?

Everything in life has risk. An informed citizen makes an informed choice about whether that risk is acceptable. You opt for a motorcycle and I choose to eat an occasional steak. The important thing is that we are free to make those choices not to have them made for us. If you feel like a black sheep on this issue perhaps a little introspective examination is in order.

This thread is going nowhere so I'm going to opt out by free choice.
 
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Old 07-27-12, 04:23 PM
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And I think everyone that wishes to has made their point.

I didn't watch the video (I can't even watch a movie that long w/o a few potty breaks and a nap), but a I found a good article on the WSJ(?) discussing it, after a search....and I think it made the point that too much of anything...and even a smaller amount of some things is bad.

I don't drink soda, rarely eat fast food (unless we are on the road), eat very little packaged processed food.....that's just because I like what I cook fresh better. I do wild caught fish if possible and I look where it comes from if I have to do farmed. Not much choice in beef...but I do look for the no antibiotic and such if I can find it. My neighbor throws me some elk every few months and we like that just fine.

I don't want this to go into a cage fight...and I don't think that will happen....but let's let it rest shall we?
 
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Old 07-27-12, 04:35 PM
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This thread is going nowhere so I'm going to opt out by free choice.

I don't want this to go into a cage fight...and I don't think that will happen....but let's let it rest shall we?

OK I surrender!!!! LOL.

It was good conversation and I only was looking for positive feed back is all.

Sometimes I wonder what does it all matter, and why waste my time living the healthy life. It does get tiring sometimes.

I think I am going to go out and get a pack of smokes, a case of beer, and a Big Mac and enjoy myself tonight....LOL. I deserve it.

"Peace"


 
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Old 07-27-12, 05:22 PM
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Ahhh come on Mike....

No one said that your comments were wrong, just different opinions. Remember...they all said they just didn't want the Gov dictating this or that. In point of fact...as you probably know...many folks here who can do it grow large amounts of their own food and some harvest their own meat.

I've tried tomatoes, chayote and a few others that are supposed to grow here...but no luck. Even with amendments my soil is just too bad.

Btw...negative on the smokes.....I have an appointment next week with the Doc...going to try and quit using what helped 15 yrs ago. Also have it set up with my wifes fitness mentor to do some personal training (bad knees and all) to try to get more fit. I need to drop at least 30 that I gained since the messed up knee. Haven't had a fast food burger in over a month...but sometimes you get that urge ya know? Wish me luck on the smokes...gonna be a hard road I think.
 
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Old 07-27-12, 06:09 PM
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why waste my time living the healthy life
You're right......dead is dead. BUT, it matters how you get there.
 
  #28  
Old 07-27-12, 06:49 PM
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a 2 year old, a 6 week old, a full time job, side work, taking care of the house, and keeping the wife happy doesn't leave much time to watch a 1 1/2 hour video of an endocrinologist speaking. I am interesting in the info, but I know it's going to be very dry and hard to get through without falling asleep. That happens to me when I watch NOVA episodes about space-time and multiple universes. It's interesting, but can be hard to stay awake during.

If it's ok for the government to ban sugary drinks to save lives, then they should be banning automobiles. I guess we all have a place to draw the line on that subject. We all just have a different place we would like to draw it.
 
  #29  
Old 07-27-12, 08:08 PM
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I will not beat a dead horse either but Lawrosa I want you to know I watched the whole video. I watched because I have family members that have diabetes and I was curious as to what this doctor had to say. I must admit some of it was way over my head but do agree with the doctor that high fructose corn syrup shouldn't be added to foods and it isn't good for you. Still though I do stand by my original comments and want to add that more education is needed not government control. For those of you who do want to watch their sugar and might have diabetes here is a link you should look at Home - MyFoodAdvisor™. Going to this website you can look up the ingredients for different foods including fast foods and know exactly what is in any food. This website is run by the American Diabetes Association so they don't have any political axe to sharpen and whether you have diabetes or not it should be very helpful. To look up a food go to the Explore foods area and look up whatever food you want and not just fast food.
 
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