My Renovation.

Reply

  #1  
Old 01-12-13, 02:08 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
My Renovation.

It has finally begun. After several postponements, my renovation is under way. The project: Remove all wallboard on the second floor. Replace all electrical and install closed cell spray foam for insulation. Install drywall, new doors and trim.

I am doing it room by room and started in the bedroom today. Didn't go as well as planned. I was hoping to pull the homasote off in large pieces but it all came off hand sized. There is more existing insulation than I had expected but I think it has seen the end of its effective life. Installed in approximately 1950, it is completely chocked with dust and debris. I took some pictures of it, but I don't think you can really tell how much dirt is in the insulation.

Here are some before pics: Renovation - a set on Flickr
I'll have to take some more progress pics later when I have time. I will keep this thread updated as I make progress.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 01-12-13, 03:48 PM
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 3,188
Droop - I'm sure there will be a lot more little surprises and delays. I don't think I have ever done a reno that went exactly as planned and scheduled.

I did your 2nd floor reno when we bought this house. It had 4 small bedrooms and 2 tiny baths. I gutted it and reframed for a master bedroom and bath and two kids rooms thatshared a bath.

I figured it would take me a 4-6 weeks working nights and weekends. It ended up closer to 3 months and I still didn't have the master bath finished for a couple more.

One kid slept on a fold out couch and the other in an unfinished basement for some of that. Living with unhappy teenagers ain't fun.
 
  #3  
Old 01-12-13, 04:47 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
Hah. Well I don't think it's only going to take me 4-6 weeks. I figure a year should do it. That's about all I will have once I order the spray foam. It has a shelf life. If I get laid off again, the time line will certainly shorten itself.
 
  #4  
Old 01-12-13, 05:46 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,607
and install closed cell spray foam for insulation.
Thats the roof there right? You spraying that stuff in between the roof rafters????? I dont think thats a good idea....


 
  #5  
Old 01-12-13, 06:55 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
That's what you want to do if you go unvented. CCSF is a vapor retarder at 2" of thickness or more. I don't have the room to install enough insulation and stay vented. I also can't vent most of my rafters bays if I wanted to.
 
  #6  
Old 01-12-13, 08:06 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
I don't have the room to install enough insulation and stay vented. I also can't vent most of my rafters bays if I wanted to.
Why not? just curious.

Good luck with your reno. I don't recall now how long it took me last time, but it was over a year. Of course, that was partly due to the fact that no one actually needed the space and there was plenty do do elsewhere in the house!
 
  #7  
Old 01-12-13, 08:10 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2,446
drooplug I applaud you for doing that as it will save you a great deal of money. That spray insulation though is hard on the lungs. Also even if you get a gallon drum size and spray it you will not get as complete a coverage as you would with a contractor coming out to spray it from a truck.

You are right though closed cell foam will insulate better than any other kind of insulation and you never have to vent. Also I would worry about some of the insulation having asbestos that you are removing. If you super insulate too you need some way to get ventilation in so that the air in your house doesn't get stale in your living area not the attic. I have heard that air to air heat exchangers are good in preventing stale air.
 
  #8  
Old 01-13-13, 05:49 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
My rafters are 2x6. The best I could do while allowing for ventilation is r-13. My roof was also originally cedar shingles. The lathe is still on the roof with plywood sheathing over it. I believe that this is allowing a great deal of air to blow under the roof from the end gables. My house is also intersecting gables. That doesn't allow me to vent all of the valleys. That probably accounts for over 50% of the roof.

You are right about the air exchange. This is only the second floor of the house. The bottom is still pretty leaky. I'll probably have to get a blower door test done at some point. especially if I do more tightening up downstairs and in the basement.

As for yield on the spray foam, we will see how it goes. I can definitely buy it for less than what I could pay someone to spray it in for me. Maybe the cost works out to be even in the end. But being able to do my reno room by room is a major deal. Paying someone to come in for each room will just boost the cost. I am very safety conscious so I will be well protected when spraying the foam. I already have my own respirators, but the kit does come with one, a tyvek suit, and big goggles.
 
  #9  
Old 01-13-13, 04:35 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
I added a few progress pics. Nothing too interesting. Also started a thread about recessed lighting here: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/li...head-spin.html
 
  #10  
Old 01-14-13, 01:08 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2,446
I understand that drooplug having a contractor go in and out of your house probably would cost more over time. I knew you would know what to do as far as pre-cautions were concerned but thought I should voice my concerns as I don't want to see anyone hurt. Sounds like a good kit you bought and that tyvek suit is really helpful along with the goggles and respirator. I never have used the big containers but I have insulated around drafty windows with the small cans and never liked how sticky that can be. Some went on my work gloves and I never was able to get it off.
 
  #11  
Old 01-14-13, 04:23 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
I have yet to buy the stuff, but yeah, the stuff out of the cans is sticky. Which is good because you need it to stick. I covered my floor with rosin paper and then plastic on top of that. I will remove the plastic after all the demo is done. The rosin paper should be good enough to pretect from the foam, joint compound, and dust.
 
  #12  
Old 01-14-13, 07:00 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2,446
Well I know I certainly will be interested in seeing how the project goes along it will be interesting to see everything transformed. I especially like the canned lights you are going to use too.
 
  #13  
Old 01-16-13, 06:03 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
Check out: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...t-breaker.html where I ask if I can share a neutral using an arc fault circuit breaker with a regular circuit breaker.
 
  #14  
Old 02-02-13, 02:37 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
Check out: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/fr...fter-ties.html where I ask about rafter ties and how to handle their removal and replacement.
 
  #15  
Old 02-03-13, 02:33 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
I cut up 5 2x6s today using my Festool Kapex miter saw. It was probably about 20 cuts in total. This is the first time I really put it to some good use. I have to say that the dust pick up on it is really good when using a vacuum. This is one of the primary reasons I bought it. The dust that didn't make it into the vacuum was probably equal to one cut if I did use the vacuum.
 
  #16  
Old 02-03-13, 06:35 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2,446
Thanks for your updates it is an interesting project. I hope you take more pictures as you go along with your project it will be interesting to see how it progresses and what changes you might decide to make.
 
  #17  
Old 02-05-13, 05:34 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
Yeah, I will take more pics of that room once I get the plastic up and maybe some of the tools out. That framing in that part of the house is fairly interesting.

Here is a picture of the front of my house: http://www.flickr.com/photos/drooplug/8449544654/ The room I am working in on on the left. Off to the right, you can see another gable end over the front door. That area above the front door is connected to the bedroom and is used as a storage space. The interesting part occurs in the area between the two peaks in the valley. Not only do you have the water coming together in the valley, but it needs to make its way behind the chimney to get out. Hopefully I can get some decent pictures of it so it makes sense. It's not ground breaking stuff, but I always wondered what exactly was going on in this area before I took the wall board down. And yes, there is plenty of evidence of past leaks in this area. The roof was done within the last 10 years and I really hope they treated this area intelligently.
 
  #18  
Old 02-16-13, 01:32 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
Gah! I decided to pull my wires up to the second floor today. Ugh! It's always a pain! Hopefully this is the last time I need to do it. I pulled electrical wire for all my circuits and 3/4" EMT so I can easily fish cat6 down to the first floor when I need to.
 
  #19  
Old 02-16-13, 02:08 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2,446
Drooplug I really wanted to see those pictures but it asked for Yahoo id. I you get a chance maybe you can post them directly here. I know it will be interesting to see.
 
  #20  
Old 02-16-13, 02:13 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,607
I have a yahoo ID and still could not see them. It said they are private......
 
  #21  
Old 02-16-13, 02:51 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
Sorry guys. I didn't have the permission set correctly. Let me know if it works now. I may need to provide a new link.
 
  #22  
Old 02-16-13, 06:33 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2,446
everything is fine now drooplug. I agree I hope they did the roof right too, flashing really needs to be done right on this roof or you get water in your house past the chimney and into the main part of your house. Looks like your house is on a slight hill which makes your house nice and dry in your basement. A very nice house what style is that exactly I am not real great at knowing about house styles.
 
  #23  
Old 02-16-13, 06:45 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
Amricanized English Cottage.

That hill is only in the front. I do get water in the basement. Mainly because of a high water table. When the sump is running, it's kept under control.
 
  #24  
Old 02-26-13, 04:14 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
Alright. Inspection scheduled for Thursday afternoon. Spray foam delivery scheduled for Thursday morning. I took some pics real quick of the room as it is. Not the greatest. It's hard to get a good shot with a point and shoot.

Pics: IMG_0090 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Latest thread about locating holes in the drywall: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/wa...tallation.html
 
  #25  
Old 02-26-13, 10:34 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 45,606
Inspection Thursday afternoon and foam for Thursday morning.... pretty ambitious. The inspector will love the foam.


Looking good too. Nice and clean.
 
  #26  
Old 02-27-13, 03:23 AM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2,446
Really looks great and I think you have just the right amount of light in the ceiling and new plugs for the walls. Smart too using plastic electric boxes our electrician we have who we use off and on says he wouldn't use anything else as it prevents arcing inside the box. It sounds too like you decided to have someone else do the spray foam insulation, another smart thing as that is nasty stuff and they can get it done really fast too. Then you can take care of the more pleasant job of dry wall. Are you thinking of built ins in that room? I only ask as it is small and built ins in my opinion would be easier to deal with than furniture in the room and it adds to the value of the house too besides being practical.
 
  #27  
Old 02-27-13, 04:35 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
I am doing the spray foam myself. It is being shipped to my work.

I like metal boxes, but I'm pinching pennies on this. It is also less work to use the plastic. I don't have to put cable clamps in or ground the box.

I'll be doing one built in in a former small closet in that room. Probably just a small closed cabinet above and some open shelves below. I might just make some furniture that fits the room better. We'll see.
 
  #28  
Old 02-28-13, 04:01 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
So today was inspection day and the inspector was a no show. I am beyond furious.
 
  #29  
Old 03-19-13, 12:03 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
Finally got my inspection today. Everything was fine. Not that the guy really ;looked at my electrical anyway. Time for sheet rock!
 
  #30  
Old 03-20-13, 02:42 AM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2,446
Great I am glad that everything is going well for you drooplug. Last time we had an electrical inspection was when we had a new panel box put in and our inspector just looked at the box from the outside and said o.k. everything is fine. They don't stick around and come too early for me I was still asleep at the time but luckily heard the door bell. I hope you post more pictures, how did the foam insulation go was it fairly easy to apply or a pain to apply or maybe somewhere in between?
 
  #31  
Old 03-20-13, 06:01 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
I had some issues with the foam. My biggest issue was surface temperature. It was a bit too cold I think. Plus I wasn't spraying enough on in one shot. I think I got a better feel for it now and will hopefully have better results in the rest of the project. I'll try to get some pics of the foam before I start to drywall. It definitely looks DIY.
 
  #32  
Old 03-20-13, 01:33 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2,446
Well at least you learned something and the good thing is you saved some money in the process. It will not matter what it looks like once the wallboard is up and you will be saving money on electricity too. Looking forward to the pictures it inspires me to get more things done here.
 
  #33  
Old 03-20-13, 04:53 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
IMG_0127 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

New pics start there.
 
  #34  
Old 03-20-13, 05:44 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 45,606
Looking good

Yeah....putting the foam in does take practice. I've watched it done by the pro's. Like anything....practice makes perfect.
 
  #35  
Old 03-20-13, 05:59 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
It also makes one heck of a mess. I didn't think it would be so bad. Every time you stop spaying, a bit of foam stuck on the tip drops off. I had to put new rosin paper down on the floor because of how bad it was.
 
  #36  
Old 03-20-13, 07:05 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2,446
Looks good to me, I see you didn't fill in all of the rafter space but you really don't have to it will be insulated enough. You used closed cell insulation I assume? I have heard that closed cell is better especially along the roof rafters. With closed cell too I have heard you don't need to ventilate the attic like you would if you were using any other insulation. Be really interesting to see the finished project thanks for sharing the pictures drooplug.
 
  #37  
Old 03-20-13, 07:30 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,607
Droo I really did not follow you project well, but from what hedge said no ventilation is needed? Meaning no baffles from the soffet vents up? Is there documentation that shows if that is true?

I can easily get in my knee walls and do this. I have standard insulation now....

I have one room in the attic ( cape) that is colder then the other, only because I think the insulation dropped out...

Very interesting.
 
  #38  
Old 03-20-13, 11:21 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2,446
Mike from what I remember Tom Silva of This Old House saying it is true if you properly insulate with a foam that is closed cell not open cell. Memory isn't what it used to be so you can always check with an insulation company to be sure but that is what I remember from the show. It was either This Old House or Ask This Old House where he said that. Kind of think of the roof as a thermos bottle that is well insulated. Later on if I have time I will try to look up documentation.

I had had a link to a company that sells spray foam insulation I think directly to the do it yourself person but may also apply the insulation for people. I removed that though as I thought it wasn't appropriate and somehow I am having more time tonight to edit my posts. I have instead a link to an industry association it is the Spray Polyurethane Foam Alliance or they also go by their initials SPFA. Anyway they are a bit less biased and are not selling anything but do have a frequently asked question page here is a link to that Spray Polyurethane Foam Alliance - Frequently Asked Questions . They confirm what I say about a spray foam attic and it protecting the roof.

Speaking of roofing I have seen sandwiches of this same material being used as sheething on This Old House. The panelized roofing system as they call it is real heavy you need a crane to lift it and many people to fasten it in place. So there are many uses for polyurethane foam.

Some controversy though at least in some circles as to whether to vent or not to vent your roof. Some say you still need to and others say no you don't. This organization says you don't need ventilation so it depends on who you talk to and what website you read. According to what I just recently read.
 

Last edited by hedgeclippers; 03-21-13 at 01:47 AM. Reason: Additional information
  #39  
Old 03-21-13, 06:16 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,941
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/wa...-quesions.html

I used close cell spray foam. My goal is for about 3" in thickness. I have over filled several of my rafter bays. They are 2x6. At 2", the closed cell spray foam becomes a vapor retarder so I won't need to add an additional plastic barrier. My goal is 3" because I want to be sure that I have the vapor protection.

There is some debate about unvented roof assemblies. Search for articles about them on buildingscience.com. The inspector was commenting about it when he was here. He said he's been seeing roofs that have not lasted as long because of it. So I really don't know for sure. Based on some of the info at buildingscience.com, it only raises the roof temperature by a few degrees. I think there may be some other things at play for the roofs that have gone bad. I don't have much of a choice if I want to insulate.

I have intersecting gables and that leaves very little of my roof that I can ventilate. I deally, this roof should have been insulated with rigid foam when the reroofed the house. But I didn't own it at the time.

Mike, is the problem area on the cathedralized ceilings? In this picture of my house, 2302840103_fc41b9424c_b | Flickr - Photo Sharing! , you can see the are to the right of my front door. That little window is to a coat closet. The closet and the front hall were always cold. I primarily blamed the front door because it leaks air like crazy. The are above the door is a small storage space. Turns out the rafter bays above the closet were completely uninsulated. I put two layers of rigid foam board to reduce volume in the bays and filled the rest with slow rise foam. This made a HUGE difference for that area downstairs. Even with the door leaking air, it is now warm and so is the front closet.
 
  #40  
Old 03-21-13, 01:29 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2,446
I think to vent or not to vent an attic depends on local building codes for the most part and if not building codes your own personal preference as to whether to vent or not. I think even with closed cell foam it doesn't hurt to vent even if it isn't required. Sounds like in your area drooplug they want venting.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes