Banning hi cap mags will fix all the problems


Old 01-17-13, 11:26 AM
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Banning hi cap mags will fix all the problems

I did a little research into the rash of gun "massacres" in the US. I remembered 8 of these and I found 2 others on Wiki. The oldest is the LI RR massacre of 20 years ago. The newest is Sandy Hook. Heres what they had in common -

THe ones I counted are:
Numbers are dead/wounded

VA Tech 32/17 (handgun)
LI RR 6/19 (handgun)
Gabbie Giffords 6/18 (handgun)
Ft Hood 13/29 (handgun)
Columbine 12/21 (long gun and handgun)
Trolley Square 5/4 (shotgun and pistol)
Aurora Theater 12/58 (assault rifle - 30 rds/handgun)
Appomatox 8/0 (long gun)
Azana Spa 4/4 (pistol)
Sandy Hook 27/2 (assault rifle/handgun)

10 of 10 were commited with guns
10 of 10 were commited by males
7 of 10 were commited by males with known mental issues
5 of 10 (and this really surprised me) were commited by immigrants
2 of 10 were commited using an "assault" weapon (AR-15 and and XM-15)
Supposedly, the Aurora theater shooter had a 100 rd drum mag that
jammed after 30 rounds.

Yup, it's obvious the mags are the problem.
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Old 01-17-13, 12:25 PM
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In a different country but another to consider was the 2011 massacre in Norway. The bombing killed 8 and wounded 209. It's been a long time since I've carefully read the entire article but I've read elsewhere that for the shooting portion of his attacks he used a shotgun, Ruger Mini 14 and Glock pistol so it's hard to pick on one "type" of weapon. And, don't forget the Oklahoma City Bombing in 1995 that killed an enormous number of people without guns. In both bombings a vehicle was used. Would banning cars & trucks solve that issue?


Regardless of ones feelings about guns the truth in the US is that they are extremely prevalent. Ruger is the only company I know that made public the number of guns sold. In 2011 it was a bit over 1.1 million. In 2012 they sold 1 million in the first seven months of the year. Keep in mind that is just one manufacturer. Like it or not those numbers are history. The guns are out there and exist. How much affect will limits on a gun's appearance or it's magazine capacity have in the future with such an ample supply already available? Even toward the end of the AWB high capacity magazines were still readily available for purchase.

Guns are a durable item with no expiration date. Another sales prohibition of this or that will have almost no affect in 10 years and I think it would be closer to 20-30 years before any real benefit might be seen.
Old 01-17-13, 02:42 PM
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Fortunately or unfortunately, depending upon ones perspective, there is no way to list all of the tragedies, large and small, that have been repelled because someone owned a firearm. Even when a defensive action makes the media, one can only speculate as to just how bad it might have been.

Wayne, any connection between those tragedies and gun restrictions, like, at Sandy Hook where he could be certain no one inside the school could shoot back.

How many CC holders would hide in a closet if some idiot started shooting people?

Old 01-18-13, 08:08 AM
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I apologise for doing such a poor job of making my point. When I wrote it I thought it was obvious but when I reread it I realized it wasn't.

What I was trying to convey was that of the 10 shootings, 7 of them were committed by persons with a known mental disorder. A secondary point is that politicians are focused on "assault weapons" and high capacity mags yet in the vast majority of the cases (8 of 10) they weren't involved.

Here's a prime example - Seung Hui Cho killed 32 VA Tech students and wounded another 17. He had been previously diagnosed with "severe" mental problems, determined to be mentally ill by a judge, yet the school knew nothing because of Federal disclosure laws.

What do these guys all have in common, Harris, Klebolt (Columbine), Holmes (Aurora Theater), Cho (VA Tech), Ferguson (LI RR)? They all had previously identified mental illness. Adam Lanza's mental condition is still unknown, although there was a report right after the massacre that a possible motive was that his mother was moving to have him committed.
Old 01-18-13, 08:23 AM
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One thing I've never understood is what is the purpose of a 20, 50 or 100 round clip? Unless you're allowed to shoot a whole herd of deer I just don't see it.
Old 01-18-13, 09:32 AM
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Baldwin, it isn't the need, nor the availability of the higher capacity magazines. It is the fact that the government is telling us we can't have them. This is not music to ears who hear freedom bells being muffled daily.

As far fetched as it seems, those high cap mags could come in handy in a revolution against one's own government who decided to disarm it's populace. Think Bolshevik Russia, 1939 Germany, Cambodia, Uganda, 1911 Turkey, 1935 China, 1964 56,000,000.
Old 01-18-13, 10:13 AM
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Baldwin - It's not about high capacity mags or even about assault weapons. It's about a constitutional right. The argument is that if the government is allowed to infringe on that right it will set a precedent and the infringements will continue until that right no longer exists.

If this latest violent act results in the banning of hi cap magazines and assault guns, will the next result in the banning of all semiautomatic weapons, or all handguns?
Old 01-18-13, 10:57 AM
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The number of people killed by "assault weapons" is not as great as the number by accidents or hand guns. The mass killings get all the press and political "rightness" corrections.

It is easy to get guns for dedicated "nut" that usually plans ahead. Most have had the guns for a while and can easily accumulate ammunition over time. They can always buy a gun (legal or illegally somewhere) since they are dedicated and guns last a long time and there are many in the world.

The large magazine prohibition is good, but not the solution for the entire problem. It is easy for the nut to get more smaller clips and eliminate one or two of the extra guns carried since it does not take that long to change a clip and as fast as pulling out another gun. Most "nuts" had an extra handgun to use on themselves.

The psychological unfitness also does not make sense since a "nut" will be deterred from seeking help since he will be targeted for purchasing legally, so just will be left to his own devices.

Look at the Norway killings at a camp and wounding. Norway has some of the strictest gun regulations in the world, but he still found a way to do it in a very controlled country.

We had a very young child killed locally with a legal handgun when his 4 year old brother found it under a pillow in his parents bedroom and shot him.

The solutions lies with minimizing the risks and educating since all the laws are not going to solve the problem and give politicians the image of doing something. Awareness and education is the best route along with reasonable laws that can have an effect if they can be enforced (which they have never been done). A trigger lock could help, but there is no way to enforce the use of it, but awareness could make the storage of the gun important to the family members.


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