Lost Airplane???

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  #41  
Old 03-22-14, 12:22 PM
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Sharp Advice I think your idea is a very reasonable one and certainly could be done. Of course though the economy being not as good as it should be here in the states the idea might not be accepted by the airlines as that would I am sure require some kind of retrofit. It would also though have to pass safety concerns. Certainly you don't want some kind of explosive device to be able to jettison the black box but it also needs to be able to be more easy to break away too at the same time.

I think the best idea so far has been Pilot Danes that being the satellite that would be signaled in times of trouble perhaps too with the modifier that I had of it being inaccessible to even the crew. You never know even in this day of screenings a crew member could be a terrorist and kill at least the passengers on the plane. As Pilot Dane also mentioned though and I have to agree with it is very costly and he also said that he would rather see something that would keep a plane from having problems than to locate one that crashed.

I agree at least in part with Pilot Dane but perhaps that whatever you would call it might save some lives if it signaled a satellite. Trouble is and this is where I agree with him on this it would be rather expensive too so certainly money from other nations would be needed to fund such a project. That though is where you get into the realm of international politics which is even more complicated than our own politics.
 
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  #42  
Old 03-22-14, 02:23 PM
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Hello: hedgeclippers

EXPLOSIVE DEVICE(S)......Jettison device or system????...

GOOD GRIEF! :NO NO NO:

I never said or implied (hopefully not) anything in reference to or about such. Self inflation. Like a life jacket. Comes into contact with water and it self inflates. Allowing flotation. I have one and it works perfectly all the time and every time it is tested.... Hopefully never needed.

Then black box, after inflation, is able to by some means to break free, break loose (Escape) from the confines of the sunken fuselage if it didn't not come out as a result of fuselage breakup upon water impact, and float up to the sea surface or high enough to allow a signal to be sent. There is a way or method. We just have to open our minds and figure out how. NASA. You reading all this. The aviation industry is in need your HELP and ADVICE....

Signal to a Satellite. Great Idea... Or signal by the existing means. Or we can use an existing satellite cell phone service. Nothing is impossible. Intent is get a signal out by any means and without any restrictions and or obstructions like water depth, etc.. Once we in AMERICA established a method, the rest will follow. Excuse me for a moment. While I check the ships satellite cell phone service.

How about seat cushions and seat backs rests that all able to come free and float? Possible life supports in some cases or instances, etc. No limits to what is possible. Except those we allow by our own mental obstructions and or restrictions we self impose upon ourselves. NO acceptable reasons (Excuses) why improvements can't be made. Not even politics, money, other manufactures or airline carriers over seas or anywhere out of this country anywhere else. Nor in our own country etc.

How often such likely to occur or be needed isn't even a justifiable excuse IMO. There are none allowable in my mind and opinion. Nor any collateral damages is acceptable...:NO NO NO: So a plane goes down over an ocean, it's a rare enough occasion to be acceptable??????? The Ford Pinto excuse???!!! Chevy side saddle fuel tanks??? Acceptable because only a few people burned alive????....

I guess in my experiences and over my entire life time thus far, excuses where never accepted. As a result I find it difficult to accept any. We are years behind times in this day and age in the airline industries. As we are with seat belts on school buses. Politics, money and lobbyists aside, there is no excuse why seat belts are not on any school buses to help protect kids and all passengers in the event of an accident. Nor any excuses why there are not behind the seat airbags on board to protect a head with an impact into the seat in front of you or that of the passenger. NONE!

Oh Well. Good exchange of ideas. Hopefully no more misunderstandings or confusions on my part etc. And be aware, what is posted here can be read by many in the know.......
 
  #43  
Old 03-22-14, 03:52 PM
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Signaling a satellite in times of trouble is a good idea. But what if you aren't in trouble, you and y,our copilot are complicit in deviating the aircraft to an alternative location, just changing course isn't that big of a deal. It is done all the time to avoid bad weather.

No trouble, no signal, no radar contact, and you land safely in Pakistan.
 
  #44  
Old 03-22-14, 04:42 PM
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It's funny you specifically mentioned the seat backs floating as Southwest has redesigned their seats making them even thinner so they can fit in an extra row of seats. Requiring them to float might cost the revenue of six cargo units, I mean passengers, gasp!

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I do like the idea of having a data recorder that could float free. Honestly in most cases when a plane hits the water it's going to open up so making the data recorders float free, even with 50% reliability should be achievable. The location of an aircraft may not always be tracked but a floating flight recorder AND ELT could be a huge step forward as it would at least locate the point of the accident and data recorder to provide evidence of what happened. We've had two (possibly) aircraft recently to go missing over water. A floating device pinging to satellites like lifeboats would be a tremendous improvement possibly allowing help to arrive in time to help.

----

I don't think there is anything we can do that will be 100% reliable against a intelligent human intent on doing harm. Even if we make everything automatic and controlled from the ground the data stream could or will somehow be modified or hijacked. The Malaysian air incident/tragedy may be the most sinister event we encounter. A crime, accident, natural disaster or terrorist act at least is known. You can curse, cry, claim the dead and try to move on. Simply disappearing...
 
  #45  
Old 03-22-14, 06:33 PM
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Perhaps a picture of a Boeing 777 will help I snagged this from the internetName:  Boeing 777 (305 x 206).jpg
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Size:  14.8 KB Notice the very top of the airplane near the antenna? How about having a box attached there where if it were submerged then the box would be made to break away through a chemical reaction. No no explosions:NO NO NO:

It could also have an inflatable bladder and it would send out an emergency beacon. The emergency beacon though could be activated while the plane was still in the air by the pilots or engineer or in an extreme situation one of the airline stewardesses or steward. So that way nothing would be activated accidentally and you would have something that could never be easily tampered with.

To make something like this work though such a device must be placed on top of the plane so no one could easily tamper with it. It would also have to have a code so no terrorist could control the box. No one could ever turn it off either with its own power source that would be recharged every day if not by the plane then the sun. With it constantly monitoring the plane.
 

Last edited by hedgeclippers; 03-22-14 at 06:53 PM.
  #46  
Old 03-22-14, 06:45 PM
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RIchard, not the best landing I have seen, to say the least The reason the recorders are in the aft end of the aircraft is because it is the last part of the aircraft to go through the windshield, so to speak. Hopefully by the time the tail section stops, the shock and awe will be over. Reminds me of the Delta flight at Love Field back in the 80's that hit a windshear. The only thing remaining of that aircraft was the tail section.
 
  #47  
Old 03-22-14, 06:52 PM
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airline stewardesses or steward
Wow...how old are you? Lol They haven't been called that (AFAIK) in many years. Now they are "flight attendants".
 
  #48  
Old 03-22-14, 07:01 PM
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Wow...how old are you?
Old enough but that is the way I always thought of them. 54 by the way so I am an old well you know.

RIchard, not the best landing I have seen, to say the least
Well Larry I wasn't in control of the plane. I think it doesn't matter exactly where a new box would go just so it could be on top of the plane.
 
  #49  
Old 03-24-14, 07:46 AM
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Southwest has redesigned their seats making them even thinner so they can fit in an extra row of seats.
Good Grief......

More seats? Less room???...

Figures. Airline companies executives busy at work figuring out ways to squeeze more sardines (passengers) into the can (Airplane) to increase the financial bottom line profitability. Sounds like it's just an attempt at justifying increasing their pay, bonuses and golden parachutes!

Flotation seat and back cushions that can break free might provide a useful benefit. May not save lives in crashes like the current one if that plane did crash into the water. The idea is to allow more debris to surface. Hopefully to make locating a downed plane over water easier to find. (???)
 
  #50  
Old 03-24-14, 08:11 AM
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Old enough but that is the way I always thought of them. 54 by the way so I am an old well you know
Well, yer just a bit younger than me. I prob picked up the "flight attendant" terminology since I dated a few of them back in the 80's. Ohhhh they hated being called stewardesses.
 
  #51  
Old 03-24-14, 08:24 AM
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Almost all seat bottom cushions can serve as flotation devices so at least that safety measure has been done.

I think the idea of ELTs that can float free from an aircraft are one of the better ideas and hopefully one we'll eventually see. Better yet would be to incorporate some type of data recorder with the beacon. Ships have EPIRBs that float free if the ship sinks and they have proven successful.
 
  #52  
Old 04-10-14, 04:00 PM
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Are planes lost at sea really that much of a concern? Not that I am paying attention, but how often does a major airliner go down in the water?
 
  #53  
Old 04-10-14, 05:55 PM
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Commercial air travel in much of the world has an incredible level safety. So safe that any aircraft lost for whatever reason is a big deal and a cause must be found so any flaw can be addressed. In the past five years there have been two major air accidents lost at sea. Air France 447 in 2009 with 228 dead and now Malaysia Airlines 370 with 239 presumed dead.

A large amount of money was spent searching for and recovering the flight data and voice recorders from AF447. I'm sure Woods Hole does not come cheap but I'm certain the search costs for MA370 will be far greater. I'm guessing a P-8 Poseidon is $50k per hour. Add in all the other aircraft, ships, satellites and everyone ashore and I'm sure it's many million per day just to find the haystack so they can start looking for the needle.
 
  #54  
Old 04-10-14, 06:37 PM
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Keep in mind that many countries have different values on things.

Some measure it in $s, while others have strong families(and family history) and respect for those passed on. In the latter case the remains have a very high value morally. These are usually Asian or SE Asia. By far, the vast majority of the passengers are in that group. China had about 200 citizens on the flight because the destination Beijing.

The second reason to recover the remains of the plane for discovery on the causes and what could be done to minimize the equipment/systems of the future flights of all planes since air flights will probably be much higher in the future. Anything found about the particular mode/plane could be used to improve future fights from many countries on any airline.

If was just a nut that had a personal problem, the remains of the plane are still valuable.

Dick
 
  #55  
Old 04-10-14, 10:58 PM
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I personally feel that this is their last chance for the plane to be found and if they don't find it in the next few days then they never will. I hope they do find at least the black box that has the recordings of what was going on in the cockpit. If they do then at least some of the mystery might be solved. It is going to be extremely difficult though to find the black box and as for finding anyone alive that is not possible in my opinion. Especially at the depth of the water in that part of the world and considering the number of days.

If you take away the moral argument for finding the plane and any religious reasons you are still left with it is just the right thing to do as far as recovery is concerned. The main thing to think about is that those people had families. I think if the bodies are not recoverable then at least a buoy should be placed where the plane is, so that the families can go there and show their respects for those who have died. Later on after all mourners are no longer interested in the crash site then the buoy can be removed after all attempts at recovery have failed.
 
  #56  
Old 04-11-14, 06:51 AM
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This is by far the largest and most technologically advanced search effort ever but the search area is immense. I would feel much better about their odds if the pings they keep hearing were from the recorders. Without confirmed pings to narrow down the area I am not sure it will be found in the next several years.

Most disturbing is that no wreckage or floating debris has been spotted yet. It makes me wonder if it ditched/landed at sea, remained largely intact and sank.
 
  #57  
Old 04-11-14, 09:03 AM
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I dont think the plane is there......

Just my therory....
 
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