Talking heads

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  #1  
Old 12-03-15, 12:17 PM
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Talking heads

While watching the news coverage of yesterday's terrorist attack it occurred to me that we are at the mercy of media ignorance when it comes to information.

Examples -

A so called expert commented that the AR-15 fires 700 rounds per minute. This after another reported that the large caliber (???) weapons were purchased legally! Obviously the talking head can't differentiate between an illegal full auto firearm and the firing rate of a semi auto. Either that or the expert has a super fast trigger finger. The weapons used were also described as "heavy weapons."

A different expert stated that the AR-15 fired a .223 caliber round while the AK-47 used the much larger 5.56 bullet!

There were many more "stupid" comments but much of it was political and not germane in this forum.
 
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Old 12-03-15, 01:02 PM
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I'm watching the news and they just referred to automatic weapons again.
 
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Old 12-03-15, 03:55 PM
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CALIFORNIA !! How's that "assault" weapon and large capacity magazine ban workin' for ya???
 
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Old 12-03-15, 04:19 PM
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Now just suppose some or all of the victims had a gun on hand. One can't defend himself without the tools to do so. Personally I don't like guns. But I want every one to be able to carry one.
 
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Old 12-03-15, 04:25 PM
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Maybe we'd all be better off if no one had guns.
 
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Old 12-03-15, 04:30 PM
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Norm... did you see the news tonight ? I believe it was a sheriff in above your area that is advocating that people who are registered to carry.... do so if at all possible. I think I also heard that was somewhere around 10,000 people.

Needless to say..... the sheriff was blasted for his comments.

Found a link to the story. Citing shootings, NY sheriff urges citizens to carry guns - The Daily Star: State News


Ulster County Sheriff Paul Van Blarcum.... here's to you.
 
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Old 12-03-15, 05:04 PM
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Maybe we'd all be better off if no one had guns.
Sure I agree, but it's not realistic. Crime and bad people are a fact of life. The only good defense is a good offense. Any gun free zone is an invitation for those who want to cause destruction without being stopped or hindered. In any of these situations how far would the perpetrators have gotten if they met the same resistance? I'm not saying it could be stopped if everyone carried a firearm. I'm saying the situations could be minimized if everyone had the ability to defend themselves in kind.

One of my son's knows karate. He looks timid and is on the short side. However, in a hand to hand combat he will come out on the winning end. However, what chance does he have against a bullet? He owns a gun.

I won't have a gun in the house. Truth be told I'm a bit afraid of them. I'm glad I know how to use one and would if I had to. But I would welcome both good and bad people to have guns in public. The thing is the bad guys will have them regardless. So why not the good people also?

PJ, No I'm not aware of this sheriff, but it's good to hear. I would more likely believed it if it came from Arizona or the Northern Plain states.
 
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Old 12-03-15, 05:54 PM
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While watching the news coverage of yesterday's terrorist attack it occurred to me that we are at the mercy of media ignorance when it comes to information.
Yep, it has been that way forever. Even when the reporter has been explicitly told the facts they all too often get them wrong when it comes time to write the article or yammer on the TV.
 
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Old 12-03-15, 05:57 PM
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While I was watching the news tonight.... one of the newsbits was that sheriff I mentioned. Another one was about being prepared and proactive in case of attack. The guy actually said be prepared to fight back... including throwing desks, hitting the floor and something else totally out of left field.

Talking heads is right. Talking nonsense.
 
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Old 12-03-15, 06:31 PM
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I honor all points of view on this, but standing still, screaming like a school girl is not an option. I never take a cell phone to a potential gun fight. I'm not a doomsday prepper, nor a conspiracy theorist, but will stand vigilant in the face of an adversary, with plans to see my grandkids when the fracas is over. If not, then let my death bed be made of my spent brass.
 
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Old 12-04-15, 03:34 AM
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Somewhat off topic but a perfect example of reporters making a mockery of facts.

Giant battery system could help light up homes in Snohomish Co. | Local & Regional | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News

Snohomish County (this is where I live) is the 13th largest county (of 39) in Washington state on the basis of area with a total land area of 2,087.3 square miles plus another 109 square miles of water. In regard to population it is either the second or third most populous depending on the source of information and the 7th highest population density. Everett, the county seat, had a total population of 103,019 at the 2010 census, making it the 7th largest in the state and fifth-largest in the Puget Sound area. By comparison, Bothell (my home city) has a population of 35,576 (2013).

To state that: "If the power goes out, the Snohomish County Public Utility District just needs to flip on its big battery." is simply ludicrous and the reporter compounds this idiocy by then stating: "...this first of its kind energy storage system could power a small town of 760 homes for about an hour."

During the windstorms last August the Snohomish County PUD (public utility district, our power company) had almost 198,000 customers without power for varying lengths of time. My own neighborhood was out for 60 hours continuous This battery back-up wouldn't have supplied ANYTHING but a few houses and business in the immediate area of the Hardenson substation. Yet the article gives the impression that power outages in Snohomish county are all but a thing of the past. TRUTH is that this UPS system wouldn't even keep a square mile of my area lit for an hour.

Forty years ago I worked for the Seattle electric utility. We had two ancient (turn of the century) steam-electric plants on standby although the general populace only knew of one of the plants. The newspapers would routinely state that if Seattle had a severe power shortage they would simply fire up the steam plant and all would be well. TRUTH is, even back then, that the steam plant could maybe supply about 2% of the Seattle load but that little FACT didn't register on the reporter's radar. When we did fire the plant the reporters, both print and TV, swarmed the place and asked the most inane questions that you could imagine and when told the answer they looked at me as if I was an idiot.
 
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Old 12-04-15, 03:47 AM
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I personally like a armed citizens, The only reason I don't carry is I would be a danger to people around me. While in service I found out I can;t hit the side of a barn from 10 feet away. That was the reason while on patrol I opted for a shotgun and grenade launcher.
 
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Old 12-04-15, 04:18 AM
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I have no idea where the saying comes from but an armed populace is a polite populace.

Pugsl, that is one reason why I rarely carry as well. I'm not so bad that I can't hit the barn but neither am I a crack shot by any means. Further, I don't have the money to spend hours at the range and quite honestly I don't find target practice much more interesting than watching blackberries grow.

But don't try to break into my house! :NO NO NO:
 
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Old 12-04-15, 07:47 AM
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I didn't intend this thread to be a discussion about guns and gun control. A topic too controversial for a forum like this. I simply wanted to point out the mis-information that we are fed daily by these so-called experts. Furd's post is another example.

However, as a practical matter, how do you get to "no guns?" Various sources indicate that there may be as many as 300 million firearms in the US. How do you get rid of them without violating the constitution? Do you use storm trooper force to take them away from citizens?

I have two guns. One is a shotgun presented to me on my retirement. The other is a Colt 45 that I won in a match. Neither have been fired in years. Both have great sentimental value. If someone tried to confiscate them we would have a serious problem.
 
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Old 12-04-15, 08:31 AM
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Have you heard the famous line. When all the guns are outlawed..... only the outlaws will have guns.


 
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Old 12-04-15, 07:38 PM
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Maybe we'd all be better off if no one had guns.
If I remember correctly some guy named Hitler said to the Jews, "Now that all the guns are gone you will be safer." If everyone were required to carry a weapon at all times, it's very possible crime of all kinds would drop substantially.
 
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Old 12-04-15, 08:00 PM
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If everyone were required to carry a weapon at all times, it's very possible crime of all kinds would drop substantially.
I seriously doubt that.

I do NOT advocate any more restrictions on gun ownership but neither do I for a minute think that having the majority of the populace armed at all times would decrease crime in any measurable degree. Society today is NOT the same as it was 150 years ago and the causes of today's crimes, at least those crimes involving firearms, are vastly different from the crimes with which our ancestors had to contend.

TRUTH is, that while the total number of firearm-related crimes has increased with our increased population, the RATE of increase is far less than the rate of population increase. That means on a per capita basis (crimes committed in ratio to total population) crime has actually DEcreased. Yes, this IS playing with statistics but the TRUTH is that on an individual basis any particular person is less likely to be involved in any manner with a crime today than in years past.

I live in an urban area and have all my life. I read on almost a daily basis of drive-by shootings in the greater Seattle/Puget Sound area. I very rarely "carry" and I can state without equivocation that I have NEVER been in a situation in my entire life (I'm 65) where I though having a firearm on my person would have been advantageous.
 
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Old 12-04-15, 10:38 PM
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I am not a fan of guns never have been and never will be but in recent years my thinking towards gun ownership has changed. I have even thought about purchasing a hand gun for protection but like others here my eyesight and coordination are not the best and I probably couldn't hit the broadside of a barn.

I don't believe we need new gun control laws as look at California and the most recent terror attack a lot of good those strict gun laws did in stopping the the terrorists. Also banning so called assault rifles isn't the answer either as even if they were no longer made here they could be smuggled in by the terrorists. Also limiting the number of rounds allowed by law in a gun didn't help either as the terrorists by all accounts had clips with thirty rounds each. So California's clip law was a complete failure too.

I do believe though that anyone who is on a terror watch list and not allowed to fly should be banned from buying guns in a gun shop. Also and this may not be politically correct but I believe that any person with an Arabic name who wants to buy a gun should have a more thorough background check done and especially those of the Muslim faith. I know people will say discrimination but it is the Muslims who wanted war and we don't need to make it easier on them especially those radicalized.

Of course some will say well then they will just go ahead and buy a gun elsewhere like off the street or at a gun show that has private dealers. That is all well and true which means that people are going to have to be more watchful and report suspicious activity. It also means that if people hear of illegal gun sales ie. guns with their serial numbers filed off then they should report such sales immediately to the police. Also people will have to just watch for anyone suspicious who might cause harm to other people and report that to the police.

We also I believe don't need Syrian refugees in this country no matter what there so called faith is and we need to tighten up our borders until some of this craziness settles down at least.
 
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Old 12-05-15, 03:11 AM
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It seems "Gun Free Zones" offer pacifists a sanctuary of peace. If it were only true. It is really like painting a bulls eye on yourself for those who have plans of destruction. Who comes up with these things, anyway? While traveling back in the 90's, I noted a rather large sign as we drove into O'hare airport stating it was a "Nuclear Free Zone". I never figured that one out, but honored it by not bringing any U235 in my bags.
 
  #20  
Old 12-05-15, 03:33 AM
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Richard, you started out well but quickly devolved into the mass hysteria that the gun control (aka gun removal) lobby wants everyone to accept.

First, the so-called "automatic" weapons are in reality semi-automatic. This means that they can fire as often as the user can pull the trigger, they DO NOT fire continuously with constant trigger pressure. Full automatic weapons are banned by federal law, with VERY few exceptions and have been since the 1930s. Second, the term "clip" is absolutely wrong. A "clip", more properly a "stripper clip" is/was a method used in the M1 Garand military rifle (perhaps others as well) that would hold several cartridges (four to seven as I recall) for quick insertion in the rifle, the clip being ejected as the cartridges were pushed into the rifle. The modern semi-automatic weapon, either a pistol or a rifle, uses a "magazine" and this magazine is part and parcel with the weapon, holding the cartridges in the proper firing position. Substituting the word "clip" for "magazine" simply shows a person's ignorance of weaponry.

There are lots of good Americans on the "no fly" lists and most of them are on the list for no good reason. To deny them their Constitutional rights based upon a list that that is made up from classified information from unknown sources is too much like a police state for this kid. Nor should people have their rights compromised by being a member of a specific religion. Remember, the First Amendment guarantees freedom of religion and ANY action taken solely on the basis of religion is not only repugnant but unconstitutional as well. I might also ask you how many Muslims you have met during your life and how did you "feel" towards them? I've met a few and I have no fear at all from those I have met. I would classify most Muslims as I classify most Christians and most members of any other religion, people that simply want to go about their lives without strife. Every religion has its share of nutjobs, it is just the Muslims that are getting the majority of the bad press these days.

I don't know about "gun shows" outside of Washington state but here they are promoted by gun clubs (the Washington Arms Collectors is big here) and, at least here the gun clubs have some pretty high restrictions before they allow gun sales within the shows. WAC requires membership AND the person to already have a state-issued "concealed carry" permit before a sale can take place. I suspect the "gun shows" in other areas have similar restrictions on sales. These are things that the "anti-gun lobby" will always fail to mention as it does nothing to promote their cause. As for your concern about "filed off serial numbers" and "illegal gun sales" the chances of an otherwise law-abiding person to come across such actions is absolutely astronomical.

Finally, how may Syrians have you met in your life? What about a person, or family, that is trying to get away from the craziness of their home country? Would you deny them asylum based only upon the fact they come from Syria? Do you have any idea of the process that people coming here from Syria have contend with?
 
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Old 12-05-15, 03:37 AM
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That means on a per capita basis (crimes committed in ratio to total population) crime has actually DEcreased. Yes, this IS playing with statistics but the TRUTH is that on an individual basis any particular person is less likely to be involved in any manner with a crime today than in years past.
Just a comment. And the above is true.

This is a result of shear numbers only. I do not believe crime rate has decreased. The world is just as dangerous as it ever has been.

Many herd animals use the same tactic. There is safety in numbers. When the herd goes to the watering hole the chances of getting caught by the alligator is reduced if 20 are drinking as opposed to only one or two.
 
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Old 12-05-15, 03:44 AM
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Furd,

What you say is idealistic. What Hedge is saying is being practical. Is it correct? No! Is it nice? No! I'd rather compromise my rights (and others) to a degree than leave the barn door open so to speak.

So if you want all people to have equal rights to immigrant to the US, then all US people should also have the right to bear, and carry arms. And no "free zones". That is just stupid.
 
  #23  
Old 12-05-15, 04:14 AM
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Norm, I stand by my statements. Crime RATES are most assuredly down but at the same time total crimes are most assuredly up.

One good analogy is that when the number of doctors in a community rises so do the incidents of people needing medical treatment also rise. This is an absolute fact and on the surface could be construed as doctors CAUSING the rise in needed medical care. Of course such a correlation is ludicrous and the REAL reason there are more cases of needed medical care is because the population of that community has risen so there are more people and it is the increased population that is the causation of the need for more doctors.

I don't have the figures handy and I'm too lazy to look them up but the FBI compiles hundreds of data points in comparing crimes committed vs almost any other statistic you can imagine such as urban populations, race, ethnicity, etc. All of them point to a lessening of crime in most, if not all, categories when compared to the population at large. In other words, total crimes divided by total population ratios are decreasing. That is NOT the same as stating that total crimes committed have lessened, they most assuredly have not. There is more crime today then at any point in history BUT that has come about because there are also more people than at any point in history.

Your analogy of the herd going to the watering hose is absolutely true. Even if the number of alligators triples if the number of prey animals increases five-fold the odds of any particular prey animal being eaten by an alligator is still lower than it was when there were fewer prey AND alligators.

And you ARE correct that I write of an ideal society. If we cannot strive for the best what is the point of living?
 
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Old 12-05-15, 05:06 AM
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One side of the political coin wants you to believe we must allow total immigration without any background checks. They want you to believe the 3 year olds and their mothers and grandparents are the ones you are denying passage. When in reality the majority of the Syrians coming are in the late teen to early 20's age group, all male and they aren't coming to sing Kumbya with you around a campfire. This is an invasion and we must look beyond our own noses to see what is happening and prepare ourselves.
 
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Old 12-05-15, 06:28 AM
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I agree with you Larry it is an invasion and most of the people who killed so many in Paris were from Syria or other areas where isis has a strong foothold. As to how many Muslims I personally know it is not many but the ones I know I also like at our local 7-11. They are nice people but if I were to sell a gun to them they would get longer scrutiny and as many different background checks as possible. It is a sign of the times and unfortunately we have to do things that other people might not like to protect our nation as much as possible.

If you are not a terrorist you get a gun but if you are a terrorist and on a watch list you don't get that gun. You are right when you say I know nothing about guns and gun terminology and I personally don't want to know either. I just repeat what I hear in the news from others who probably don't have guns either. I am more of a computer nerd than anyone who knows anything about guns and need to learn more about computers. I do support the constitution though and I am a proud friend of those who do own fire arms.
 
  #26  
Old 12-05-15, 06:49 AM
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The FBI Uniform Crime Report has some interesting crime stats regarding violent crime and gun homicides. While not perfect it gives a non PC look at who is committing a disproportionate (by population demographics - sex, age, race etc.) number of assaults and murders and what types of weapons are being used. Despite the political and LW media focus on "assault rifles" in reality only a very small percentage of homicides are committed using long guns.

Some 2014 murder numbers from the UCR -

Total - 11,961
By firearms - 8124 (67%)
By handguns - 5562 (46.5%)
By rifle - 248 (2.1%)
By hands/feet - 660 (5.5%)

The numbers don't total because I did not include shotguns (which despite Joe Biden's urging to "buy a shotgun" actually were used to commit more murders than rifles), other guns (?) and unknowns.

I liked the comment from the sheriff that was encouraging licensed citizens to carry. He said he had 10,000 people with carry permits in his jurisdiction and never had a problem with them.
 
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Old 12-05-15, 07:04 AM
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The city of Kennesaw, GA via local ordinance requires all able bodied heads of households to own and be proficient in firearms use. It may be a superficial law, but since 1992, their crime rate is almost nil. Who wants to break into a house when you KNOW the owner is standing there with a gun trained on your chest?

Oh, and two reasons you don't want that scenario with a woman. 1) she may know how to use it and 2) She may NOT know how to use it. But I revert to my male chauvinistic pig profile. No offense ladies, just light humor.
 
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Old 12-08-15, 12:00 PM
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...then let my death bed be made of my spent brass.
When I read that this scene instantly came to mind, just some light humor.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWjJlErBPX4
 
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