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Can the justice system be held accoutable?

Can the justice system be held accoutable?


Old 04-03-07, 04:29 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 220
Can the justice system be held accoutable?

Aug 30th last year my wifes was assaulted while standing at the LYNX bus stop in West Oaks mall in Ocoee Fla
She was standing off the bus and a little behind it just a little outside the view of the security cameras on the bus

A young man attempted to snatch her purse but she held on to it.
Just before he did he stuck his head in the door of the bus to speak to the driver
Just before the driver heard her yelling for help he is seen in the bus video exiting the frame heading toward her position.
The detective told me that he admitted that he did it, not to snatch her purse but because he was angry that she wouldn't talk to him.

Today we went to court

Before the trial started I overheard the defense lawyer say that his defense was that he was not near the mall that night . I chuckled at this in the face of the overwhelming evidence against him

The victim, my wife did great on the stand except for one small glitch.
She does not speak English well enough for this type of proceeding so we had an interpreter and through the interpreter she could not state that West Oaks Mall was in Orange County and she did mistakingly state that it was not in Ocoee.

Why would this matter you ask?

The representative for the Ocoee police department, the investigating detective who got the admission, could have established that the Mall was in fact in Ocoee which is known to be in Orange County but did not bother to appear today

The bus driver who could ID the guy and also establish that the Mall was within the jurisdiction of the Orange County courts system also did not bother to show up today.

The case was dismissed because the great state's attorney could not establish that the court where we now found our selves trying this case had jurisdiction in the case.

No continuance, no simple verification process an out and out dismissal of all charges.

I asked the lawyer for the state if the contempt charges that we were threatened with if we failed to appear would be filed against these two taxpayer paid employees of the people.
He said he could certainly file a complaint blah blah blah.

So far I have called the CLEO of Ocoee and demanded an explanation, they'll get back to me but claim to have been given no notice of court today. I honestly cannot say that I don't believe them

I also contacted Carlton Henley who is the chairman of LYNX to ask him why one of his employees failed to appear, he'll get back to me in a couple if days.
I also informed them that this was the first of two incidents that happened to her while riding their buses, the second time she was actually on the bus and that in neither case had we considered suing-Yet. And that I would expect that loyalty to be returned

I have been put in contact with a lawyer whose specialty is suing orange county police depts and government entities.

I'm waiting for the anger to subside before I decide whether we go through with it or not.
Somebody has to pay for this royal screw up on my dime.

Anybody have any suggestions

The only thing I have come up with is getting copies of all pertinent reports and names and climbing the ladder to Crist if necessary

Not only has a violent criminal been set free he has been set free and emboldened, if the comments made by his crew on the way out are any indication
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Old 04-03-07, 06:15 PM
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 15,834
Did you have an attorney? If you did, I missed reading it. Get an attorney to reopen the case if you want to pursue this.

Consider the time and expense involved. The purse snatcher will eventually be caught. Perhaps it's best to let him go to jail on someone else's dime.

In the meantime, comfort your wife and be thankful that she is unharmed. While many may know the name of the county a mall is located in, there are many who do not. Reassure your wife that the court's decision was not her fault.

Your wife was an easy target. The following is a good link for tips to prevent purse snatching: http://www.ci.bakersfield.ca.us/POLICE/etip/archive/2006etips/may.html

You may not have gotten satisfaction from the police or the bus driver, but perhaps you need to talk with the manager of the mall about beefing up security at the bus stop. If shoppers do not feel safe, they will not shop at their mall.
Old 04-03-07, 08:01 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 220
Victims do not get attorneys
It's the state vs the criminal

I said this on another site
I am the least angry at the criminal
Life is not going to be kind to him and he will get what he earns

A case being dismissed because the victim does not know what city she was assaulted in is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
Especially in this day of instant internet capable computers in the courtrooms.

Sop far I have emailed the governor and the county mayor if I have not heard anything by the end of the week I'm contacting a local TV station that is doing a series on the failed court system. I may do that sooner my niece is connected to them and my wife is the family's favorite aunt.
Her father is a neighboring county detective that plays golf with the sheriff of my county.
If nothing else the who you know will play out here, and that sucks too
Old 04-03-07, 08:12 PM
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depending on what exactly happened the perp may not be able retried. The old double jeopardy thing. If double jeopardy doesn;t apply for some reason, depending on how the charges were dismissed is critical. If they were dismissed with prejudice, there is nothing more to do.

You can still file a civli suit against the perpetrator.

Not sure why 12pole would think or suggest an attorney for your wife. Criminal charges are undertaken by the state at their expense (taxes you know). It is up to the state to decide whether to prosecute or not.

I suggest not being upset at the bus driver or the police. It was not their fault. If the prosecutor wants a witness there, they need to subpeona them as you wife should have been as well. No subpeona, no need to be there.

Blame the (apparently incompetent) prosecutor but also realize he is generally immune from legal action (from you or your wife) for such incompetence.
Old 04-03-07, 08:13 PM
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Location: Sw FL
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take it to the media , be persistent , be a pest . call them all , until you get one on it

tv , newspapers , etc

how about these guys ?


or here

Old 04-03-07, 08:16 PM
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in addition, you are getting upset about somebody not veriifying the jursdiction. You need to understand that it is not up to the courts to do anything of the sort. It was up to the prosecutor to figure out how to fix the screw up but once a trial starts, there are some very stringent rules as to what he can and cannot do. You can;t just run over to a computer and pull up info and you can;t simply add witnessess without approval from the defense attorney and in this case, the defense attorney outsmarted the prosecutor.
Old 04-03-07, 08:19 PM
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 3,140
Its too bad that you had to endure all of that mess. But, what goes around will come around. It sounds like you may be on the right path now. Luckily your wife was not injured. Have a nice spring. Hope things go better for you.
Old 04-03-07, 09:25 PM
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, they say, you are an idiot if you can think you can represent yourself. Sorry, these are quotes from lawyer friends.
the only reason OP would need an attorney is to save them from the possibility of incriminating themselves and being charged themselves. In this case, I see no reason and no possibility of that happening (not saying it couldn't, just very very unlikey). I believe your friends are stumping for work.

The OP's wife is not representing herself, she was a witness. Nothing more.

Your situation is much different. In DV, there is always the possibility that either party could be charged with a crime. In OP's situation, I just do not see any crime OP could be charged with.

You are scaring me with your situational explanation. Obviously you have been hurt and apparently not supported by the legal system.

It also seems the DV laws in your area a a bit behind the times. Many jurisdications have gone the route that if there is evidence of injury, osmebody is going to jail. Period. It is beyond the discretion of the responding officer.

Not that I'm trying to counsel you or tell you how to heal but it sounds as if you need some serious psych help. I'm not inferring there is something wrong with you. It appears you have experienced something that needs attention.

Removing oneslef from society is not a good situation.
Old 04-04-07, 07:36 AM
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I thought that dismissed with prejudice meant that the case could be brought up again.
I don't recall that being said but I was not able to hear much of the proceedings.
I'll be requesting transcripts and final paperwork though

I am afraid that double jeopardy would take effect here but they cold also charge him with the crime that my wife originally filed the complaint for. Strong
arm robbery, not the assault that was being charged yesterday

Civil suit would only be symbolic, these people are judgment proof

The state attorney claims that the driver and detective were issued subpoenas.
My wife was also received a subpeona with the threat of contempt charges if she failed to appear.

Everybody that screwed up on this is a government employee and most are immune from anything I can do legally

This mall is not an obscure mall it is common knowledge that it is in Orange county the judge stated that only his lack of kn0wledge of where the mall was prevented him from declaring it common knowledge.
I think I am more upset that he thought it was comical that my wife could not say that it was in Ocoee but did not think himself stupid for the same deficiency

Another thing to understand is that Vietnamese is not an all encompassing language anymore than American English is.
Te conversation my wife was having with the interpreter is comparable to a Boston blue blood trying to talk legalese to a backwoods Appalachian. The interpreter can not explain the questions only directly translate, which is as it should be and really has little to do with the case

Right now I am leaning towards Mangos suggestion I'm sure I have already ruffled some feathers somewhere

"They" can say that she is an idiot all they want, but if they claim to be lawyers and don't understand that the state represents victims in criminal cases then maybe they are the idiots.
Old 04-04-07, 01:39 PM
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with prejudice means they cannot file charges again.

from lectlaw.com:
DISMISSAL WITH PREJUDICE - When a case is dismissed for good reason and the plaintiff is barred from bringing an action on the same claim.

DISMISSAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE - When a case is dismissed but the plaintiff is allowed to bring a new suit on the same claim.

from the extent of the trial, I would bet double jeopardy would be applicable. Yes, they can file different charges if they want.

the situation does sound terribly rediculous. Sorry to hear that not only was your wife assaulted but it was followed by the great errors that led to the perp being released. Sometimes justice doesn't work well.

It sounds as if the prosecutor didn;t put a lot of effort into this one. Maybe a complaint to his/her boss followed up with some media coverage as others have suggested.

all in all you are not going to get this guy convicted (more than likely) and that sucks. I also doubt you will have any succes suing any of the other parties either. Governmental immunity goes a long way to protect them.

Be sure your wife recieves any psych help she may need and watch out for PTSD. Situation
Old 04-04-07, 04:05 PM
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Ok that makes sense I always thought it was the other way around

My wife is a backwoods Viet farm girl counseling is out of the question.

I am hoping the trial against the next guy ,The one who snatched her purse and assaulted her two months later and was caught within fifteen minutes by the police with her stuff in his pockets, results in a conviction and then she will be offered victim counseling and then I can tell her that it is mandatory.

Since no crime was committed here she is entitled to nothing, not even the lest bit of restitution for the the property that she lost in the assault

I waited all day for a response from anybody so tomorrow I'll be contacting the States Attorney and the local newspaper, who seem to be working a vendetta against the county judicial system being soft on criminals.
They opposed the current Mayor who ran on a tough on crime platform.

The people I was talking about suing was the bus company
I have already been contacted by a lawyer

I would be suing simply out of revenge because I want someone to pay.
I have decided not to pursue this because it goes against all that I believe in and I believe that the source of my anger is that I was ten minutes late picking her up that night and it happened about three minutes before I got there

My wife is free to pursue any angle that she wants but is looking to me to handle things

Thanks for the response, it's good to hear from someone that at least sounds like they know what they are talking about and didn't read something from a book

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