Quit Claim Deed question

Reply

  #1  
Old 06-13-14, 07:07 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tenn
Posts: 306
Quit Claim Deed question

I did a QUICK CLAIM DEED on my 85 year old Moms house in 2012.
Now if Mom goes in a nursing home and they want to get money from the sale of the house which I did sale and paid all the taxes on it.
None of the money will be spent if mom needs money I get it from that account..
just wondering about if nursing home could take the money
Dave
Tenn
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 06-13-14, 08:42 AM
Shadeladie's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 3,797
They don't automatically get the money right off the bat, but if she's there long enough, they will get it. If they go into Assisted Living, they'll require $20,000 to 40,000 just to get in, to insure they're able to stay on should they need full time care.
If they need full time care from the start, they can cost $6,000 a month and up (more or less depending on location), so they'll get their Social Security and Pensions right away, and get the difference from their bank accounts.
She (or you) will need to apply for Medicaid, so that once the money runs out, they take over. HOWEVER, then you'd have to sign over any money and/or property to the State. They do not want to pay any more than they have to.
If your mom should die while there's still money left, they do NOT get it.

SO, they might get it, sooner or later, depending on how long your mom lives.

You may take any expenses you incur and put aside funeral expenses, from that account, but nothing extra, or they will go after you for it.
 
  #3  
Old 06-13-14, 09:04 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 43,039
There are rules concerning the transfer of property prior to getting any type of assistance. I don't remember if it's 2 yrs or maybe 5. Might be a good idea to consult an estate attorney.
 
  #4  
Old 06-13-14, 09:14 AM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,800
I'm not sure what the quit (not quick) claim paperwork has to do with anything? Was it all in your Moms name or were you co-owners? Who did the quit claim, she or you? Sounds like you, since you said you sold the house? There are time limits on if they can get the money from it I believe. And it won't be the nursing home itself, it will be a government agency. The nursing home is providing a service for payment. They don't care where it comes from. It's the agency that is paying the bills that will want her money spent down before they start paying.

What I mean is, if she signed the house over to you, then 4 months later went in a nursing home, they will come after that money. If it was signed over, say...5 yrs before, then I don't think they can. I'm not sure of the exact time frames. Could be shorter or longer.

I know when my Mom got sick and needed full time care, then Dad needed to go in assisted living shortly thereafter, their insurance covered some for a time, then savings, SS, and pensions were used. Once the savings were depleted and Medicaid kicked in, the house had to be sold first since neither one of them were living in it.

I may have forgotten something since my sister was handling everything back home.

As stated, you need to check with Medicaid. Most all nursing facilities have someone on staff that can assist you.
 
  #5  
Old 06-13-14, 06:22 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2,446
I agree with Becky(Shadeladie) I really think you should consult an estate attorney before putting your mom into a nursing home if at all possible. She will get better care at your home too if you are able to take care of her. Usually from what I understand the nursing home has a social worker and the social worker handles all of the paperwork. My understanding is that certain places like that actually go after your parents house themselves. I guess too it can depend from state to state although some federal regulations come into play too.

I myself have never had that issue to deal with at least not yet but have heard things from friends. I also have read a few things on the internet about it when I have heard that some church friends went to this or that facility as their health declined. I doubt too that the attorney would cost much for a consultation probably not more than $100.00, money well spent for peace of mind.
 
  #6  
Old 06-13-14, 06:56 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tenn
Posts: 306
Mom is now in a assited living now, it cost her $3,000 a month has her own room 3 meals a day lots to do. Wie bowing, canasta, bingo and she really likes it. Her SS and I got $1,100 a month from VA
which took me 2 years to get approved...
She gets by ok, sale of house was $75K I have that under my name.
I was just wondering about what ifs, in Tenn it is after 7 years they cannot touch any house sale money.. I was told after a quick claim house under my name they cannot touch the house or money after you sell it.. That just seemed to good to believe they want money they going to get it.. I now got 5 more years.. Her Mom lived to be 95 so we might make it she is in good health
no issues so far..
 
  #7  
Old 06-13-14, 07:30 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,800
Quit claim...not quick! QUIT QUIT QUIT.

You aren't thinking right I don't think. How much is her bill...$3000 a month. You (she) gets SS and VA benefits (Was she a veteran? That seems odd for the amount given, unless its survivor benefits?), and that adds up to at least $3000 a month?

You really, really need to talk to a counselor and a lawyer. I think you are just opening yourself up for a big, unwelcome surprise if you don't.
 
  #8  
Old 07-20-14, 02:29 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 2,824
To whom was the house deeded? In other words, who owns the house today?

The proceeds of the house sale should be (should have been) kept in the seller's (your mother's) bank account.

Your mother should be signing all of the documents and checks herself, or someone (probably you) should get a power of attorney to act in your mother's behalf.
 
  #9  
Old 07-21-14, 06:04 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tenn
Posts: 306
I have been her power of attorney for the last 10 years..
I did a quick claim on her house so Im now the owner.
I have now sold the house the full amount is under my name.
I have 7 years before ANY money can be spent
 
  #10  
Old 07-21-14, 06:53 AM
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: WI/MN
Posts: 18,497
I corrected the wording in the thread title, please try to use the correct terminology as Vic has been advising - you executed a QUIT claim, not quick.
 
  #11  
Old 07-21-14, 08:29 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 2,824
Nothing unusual happens until your mom (perhaps with your clerical assistance) applies for government assistance such as Medicaid. At that time all of your mom's assets as of the past X years (I think it is 5) will be sized up and that amount Y has to be spent on her care (say to the tune of $6,000. per month if the nursing home charges that) before she will receive benefits.

Some of the amounts she has been spending for care now can count. You need to see an estate expert or estate attorney about how to properly account for amounts spent now on her care so that the amount she has to spend after applying for assistance can be just what is left as opposed to all she owned. There may be rules about whose checking account which expenses get written out of. You don't want to write your own checks towards her care when the proceeds of the sale of her assets could have been used first.

Some complications come up because you flipped the house (she sold it to you for a small amount of money plus a large amount of love and affection and you almost immediately sold it to someone else for a large amount of money and no love and affection).
 
  #12  
Old 07-21-14, 08:51 AM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 631
Originally Posted by AllanJ
You need to see an estate expert or estate attorney about how to properly account for amounts spent now on her care so that the amount she has to spend after applying for assistance can be just what is left as opposed to all she owned.
And you're skipping over a few other ways this could go sideways---

Power of Attorney, the quick claim deed, the sale, estate recovery, lookback period, bonafide purchaser.

State law varies about the minimal requirements for a power of attorney to be valid.
A hand drawn or bookstore "estate planning manual" may not meet the state standards.
State law varies about how long a power of attorney is valid - was the person competent at the time of signing? If so why didn't they do it themself?
Was the person incompetent? That can negate a poorly drafted power of attorney.

State law varies about when, whether, and for how much, a power of attorney can transfer assets to themselves.
There are thousands of pages of lawsuits filed by out-of-state siblings who don't react well when they find out after-the-fact that the family home was sold without their involvement.

State law varies about how formal a deed needs to be, and about what a quit-claim does.
Some areas, it's a "I never owned it" statement used to cleanup estate issues (think Agatha Cristie stores where there's a 2nd cousin who stands to inherit everything...)
Begs the question, why wasn't a normal deed used? Why a quick claim deed?


Law also varies about who owns property - e.g. couple divorces without a property settlement agreement, husband dies, wife sells the entire property, finds out that 1/2 of it belongs to his son from a first marriage.

And the sale - the usual term is "bonafide purchaser".
Was it an arm's length sale to a buyer, or to a relative.
Did the sale use the standard real estate procedures, a Realtor, a title company?
Was there an appraisal from both buyer and seller?
It sold at $75,000 but what if somebody thinks it worth $50k, or $150k?

The standard look back period (where Medicare/Medicaid can reverse everything) is 60 months, but each state takes a different approach to enforcement.

Good news is that West Virginia is reported to be rather lenient about going after reimbursement.


Originally Posted by AllanJ
Some complications come up because you flipped the house (she quitclaimed it to you and you almost immediately sold it to someone else).

IIRC, the post says the house was sold, but not to who...

Hal
{disclosure, I'm an attorney, but I'm not YOUR attorney}
 

Last edited by Hal_S; 07-21-14 at 09:11 AM.
  #13  
Old 07-23-14, 06:50 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tenn
Posts: 306
Mitch I dont see it corrected as you said you would do.

If your will please try to do what you say I would appreciate it...
Dont tell me your going to do something and NOT do it...

On my original post my edit feature was taken away and I COULD not correct it myself..
so sorry I made the mistake of miss spelling.
 
  #14  
Old 07-23-14, 08:47 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,800
The title has been changed...who did it, I dunno. I'd assume the person who said they would.
 
  #15  
Old 07-24-14, 05:46 AM
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: WI/MN
Posts: 18,497
Uh, yeah - I said I changed it after I changed it.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'