Door Hinge???

Reply

  #1  
Old 06-28-12, 10:58 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Door Hinge???

My cabinet under the sink in my bathroom is broken. 1 side is fine but the other side door is broken. The hinges snapped many years ago. And nobody sells it. Homedepot and all are standard flat and this is round around the edges on the inside also. And also wider at the base part. I lost the rest of the hinges and it was broken anyway so I need new ones but nobody has them. I took photos to show you.
 
Attached Images     
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 06-29-12, 04:34 AM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,965
Received 6 Votes on 6 Posts
Welcome to the forums! I have had the exact same problem with a client's cabinet doors. I was able to contact Blum directly and order the part of the hinge separately from the action part. The ones I had were for a lazy susan corner, and were double "knee" type (expensive) and no one carried them. Parts came in about 3 days. Look on the hinges to see who the manufacturer is. You may also want to visit the Rockler.com site as they have a good selection of hinges.
 
  #3  
Old 06-29-12, 09:58 AM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Great advice but no manufacture listed. All it says is this. PAT APPL, MADE IN USA, EW 584.
 

Last edited by diy76; 06-29-12 at 10:41 AM.
  #4  
Old 06-29-12, 06:16 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,965
Received 6 Votes on 6 Posts
Look at this one to see how similar it is. You could replace the pair on one door only. Blum® 110° Soft-Close BLUMotion Overlay Clip Top Hinges for Face Frame Cabinets - Rockler Woodworking Tools
 
  #5  
Old 06-29-12, 08:08 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks but I don't think that is it. But according to rockler website I only live 23 miles from there. So after midas fixes my breaks tomorrow I 'll just stop by there and see.
 
  #6  
Old 06-29-12, 09:28 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,198
Received 714 Votes on 661 Posts
Great closeup pictures of the broken part, but try as I might I can't get a good look at the picture of the hinges because it is too fuzzy and far away. I'm trying to figure out what kind of mount that is, and all I can see is a couple screw holes the rest is too shadowy.

Can you remove one of the UNBROKEN hinges and show us a closeup of the entire hinge assembly?

Whatever it is, it looks like someone really hacked up the face frame to make those hinges work instead of just getting the right hinge in the first place.
 
  #7  
Old 06-29-12, 10:51 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Sorry its fuzzy. Using my cellphone. 5mp camera. Was fine when I got it and now even with resotre defaults its not as good. Unless i turn up the iso.

Anyhow,
I took more closeups. Don't want to break it so I didn't unscrew anytihng but hopefully these photos are better.
 
Attached Images     
  #8  
Old 06-30-12, 05:32 AM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,965
Received 6 Votes on 6 Posts
Brant, you are right. It was a hack job. I thought it was a stile overlay mount, but the clearer pictures shows a double inset. Too easy to do it right. Why would someone do that to a good cabinet. DIY76, I'll go back to looking. If you could remove a good hinge and take it to Rockler's with you, I almost guarantee they can match it.
 
  #9  
Old 06-30-12, 09:08 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,198
Received 714 Votes on 661 Posts
Its still too dark for me to make out the cabinet mounting half of the hinge. You need to put a light on the subject!

I'd forget about finding an exact match and do what Larry said-just get a new pair of similar hinges. You would HAVE to take an old hinge off. Obviously a European face frame hinge is out of the question since the face frame has been hacked off. You will need a European Frameless (Box) hinge that mounts on the inside of the box. You will need the same overlay (shut the door, make a pencil line of the outside of the door, then measure the distance from the box lining to the line... might be 5/8-3/4 or so.) Yours look to be 120°, but that's not as important as getting the correct overlay. If you get the wrong overlay your door will not be centered correctly when it closes. Even if you get a hinge that will work you will probably have to make some adjustments on the hinge to adjust the reveals on your door. Have them explain the adjustments or give you some instructions, or find the instructions on a website so you know what screw does what.
 
  #10  
Old 06-30-12, 03:53 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I just came back from rockler. They had nothing that matched. Plus it was a small shop anyway. They suggested a place called baers supply in mundelien il.

Anyhow since its still sunny I took more pictures.
 
Attached Images   
  #11  
Old 06-30-12, 05:41 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,965
Received 6 Votes on 6 Posts
Have you taken a hinge completely off the door/stile? Sure would be nice to see the entire hinge. The pix is still dark where we need to see it. Take one off, lay in on a light background and let us see all the hinge.
 
  #12  
Old 06-30-12, 06:01 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I would but I don't want to break the door and might not be able to put it back together.
 
  #13  
Old 06-30-12, 06:30 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,965
Received 6 Votes on 6 Posts
Take both hinges off and leave the door off until you get a replacement hinge for the other one. Surely you didn't go to Rockler's without a complete hinge?
 
  #14  
Old 06-30-12, 08:43 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I did but it doesn't matter. It's like its glued shut or something. It won't come off and I don't want to break it. I got the door side open and saw this part number.

3X060MF

But it doesn't google. I got 2 replacements from lowes. Not exactly the same might work. Same shape. However the end part isn't wide enough. I can however keep it inside the box and not on the frame. But the screws provided are too long and will bore through to the other side and look ugly. And on the door side it fits but the holes don't line up. So I can make new ones but that ruins the old ones incase I find exact matches someday.

That's alright thanks for all the help. But I'll just live with the broken door for now.

BTW, does baers supply sound familiar??
 
  #15  
Old 07-01-12, 12:36 AM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I finally found something very similar. But can't be certain.

http://www.amazon.com/Laurey-Co-1030...+cabinet+hinge
 
  #16  
Old 07-01-12, 07:55 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,198
Received 714 Votes on 661 Posts
The hinge does look similar but there is no way to find out if it will work. The stupid company puts no specifications on their web page or on any of their seller's pages. It just says "instructions included". So while it looks similar I wouldn't guarantee that it will work. I'm worried that hinge mounts on the box, not on the face frame.

I'd also like to take back what I said previously... especially this part:

You will need a European Frameless (Box) hinge that mounts on the inside of the box.
...and since you won't take a hinge off, I don't think we can give you very good advice. If you are worried about removing it from the door, then don't- leave the cup part of the hinges mounted to the door and just remove the door (and hinges with it) by taking out the 4 screws (2 each on both hinges) that go into the side of the face frame, and leave the screws that go into the cabinet door that hold the 35mm cup into the door.

The reason for taking them off is that I think we need to see how/if they notched the face frame because without a nice bright picture we can't see the size of the notch in the face frame. And the size of the notch will affect how your new hinge will mount to the same spot.

So I want to take back my advice about getting a European frameless (box) type hinge until we can actually see the condition of the face frame behind the existing hinge. And we would need you to remove the door and hinge to do that.

What I'm afraid of is that the hinge you found on Amazon is meant for a frameless box. It likely mounts BEHIND the face frame and will not work. What you need is a hinge that specifically says it is "face frame mount", and you need to figure out what the overlay is by shutting the door, making the pencil line, then measuring from the pencil line to the interior edge of the face frame.

Once you do that, you will literally have dozens of hinges to pick from, and there will be no question that they will work.
 
  #17  
Old 07-01-12, 08:11 AM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I'd like to pry the door off but removing the 4 screws did nothing. Its as if its glued shut. It won't come off.
 
  #18  
Old 07-01-12, 08:31 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,198
Received 714 Votes on 661 Posts
Alright... in your original post, the 3rd picture down. It shows the portion that is still attached to the face frame, and the door has broken off. Can you give us a clearer, closer, brighter picture of the portion that is left in the face frame? Maybe that would suffice. And maybe you could work on getting that piece off instead.

I think we are going to need to know how much of the face frame is left. So once you get that piece off, you might want to hold a ruler up to the notch that was made in the face frame and snap a picture of that as well. that way we will have a good idea of the size face frame mounting plate that you need.
 
  #19  
Old 07-01-12, 11:42 AM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Maybe this will help. Sorry its a bit shaky. It is being fixed as we speek so check back later to see. But for now the link still works.

VID 20120701 121725 - YouTube
 
  #20  
Old 07-01-12, 12:14 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,965
Received 6 Votes on 6 Posts
Aside from making me drunk watching it, the camera was too close for me to see the exact thing both XSleeper and I have been needing to see. In post #1, picture #3 can you not remove one of the stubs? The door is already off. We need to see how that part of the hinge is attached to the cabinet. It is not a normal installation from what we see every day.
 
  #21  
Old 07-01-12, 12:27 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
BTW, does baers supply sound familiar.
 
Attached Images  
  #22  
Old 07-01-12, 12:37 PM
D
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,946
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
This is the dumbest designed hinge I have ever seen.

What is the distance between the edge of the hinge cup on the door and the edge of the door? When the door is closed, does the outside edge of the door line up flush with the end of the cabinet? If not, what is the distance there?
 
  #23  
Old 07-01-12, 01:41 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,965
Received 6 Votes on 6 Posts
Holey moley!! We have put you through a lot, but I really would appreciate a picture of the hinge alone, that part that fits in this gosh awful hole in the stile. I have never seen such an installation.
 
  #24  
Old 07-01-12, 01:49 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,198
Received 714 Votes on 661 Posts
LOL, Drooplug took the words out of my mouth!

that's an old Mepla hinge... that particular design is not made anymore (wonder why)... and here are some instructions for how they suggest you proceed.

Notch Diagram for Face Frame Cabinets | How-to Blog | Shop & Save at CabinetParts.com

They basically suggest that even more of the face frame be hacked out so that you can use a frameless box mount hinge.

And I would assume that "any" box mount hinge would work, provided it's full overlay.
 
  #25  
Old 07-01-12, 01:54 PM
D
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,946
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
And I would assume that "any" box mount hinge would work, provided it's full overlay.
The space between the hinge cup and the edge of the door is fairly large. So we have to make sure there is a plate available to maintain the correct overlay.
 
  #26  
Old 07-01-12, 02:03 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,198
Received 714 Votes on 661 Posts
I've been unsuccessful in getting the OP to measure the overlay. Maybe if they would follow the instructions in that link they will feel more confident in what they need to do.
 
  #27  
Old 07-01-12, 02:17 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
  #28  
Old 07-01-12, 02:22 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The metal piece measures about 2 and aquarter by 2 inches. 2 going in. And 2 and a quarter up and down on the frame looking straight forward at the sink. And left and right that edge is 1 and a quarter. And 3 quarter inches deep.
 
  #29  
Old 07-01-12, 03:00 PM
D
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,946
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
If you answer my questions I can tell you what to buy.
 
  #30  
Old 07-01-12, 03:54 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The door was always flush. Not sure what exactly you want me to measure. Maybe draw me a diagram and I will measure.
 
  #31  
Old 07-01-12, 04:11 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,198
Received 714 Votes on 661 Posts
http://www.blum.com/pdf/BUS/1046_hin...6_hinges_b.pdf

If you look at the above PDF, there will be some diagrams on page 2.

On the top diagram, titled "hinge cup center point" you will want to measure B and C.

On the 3rd diagram, titled "hinge abbreviation key" you will want to measure the overlay, which is what I was asking you to do with the pencil. We probably also need to know R, which might be zero, if the doors were full overlay.

Full instructions can be found on page 13 of that PDF.

Drooplug, I'll hand this off to you since this is right up your alley.
 
  #32  
Old 07-01-12, 04:25 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I drew a better diagram if this is what you mean. If not right click and save it and tell me what to change.
 
Attached Images  
  #33  
Old 07-02-12, 07:37 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
NO ideas or did I measure wrong.
 
  #34  
Old 07-02-12, 08:12 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,198
Received 714 Votes on 661 Posts
I think everyone who has offered to help is still willing to help, provided you answer the questions we need the answers to.

Read Drooplug's questions yesterday at 1:37pm, and answer them.

...and provide the measurements I asked for yesterday at 5:11pm, using the abbreviations from the .pdf so that we both know we are looking at the same measurements.

Your "better diagram" does not contain any of the information we asked for. You need to use the .pdf I referenced and take those measurements on the cabinet that still has a door and working hinge. That is the cabinet that you will need to measure, because all these measurements need to be taken based on a working door and hinge.
 
  #35  
Old 07-02-12, 09:40 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Sorry I'm not good at this kind of stuff. Is this what you meant by measuring overlay.

How to Measure your Overlay

Or did you mean the length of a good hinge.
 
  #36  
Old 07-02-12, 10:45 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,198
Received 714 Votes on 661 Posts
Yes, the link you attached contains good information. The "overlay" is the distance your door overlaps the face frame.

Before we give you any advice about what hinge to get, we need to be absolutely sure that the new hinge will not change the way your door is centered left to right. Since the location of the 35mm cup is "set" and can't be moved, we need all sorts of exact measurements to make sure the cup does not move left or right, so that the new hinge and mount will place your door in exactly the same place, with the exact same "overlay".

We don't need to know about your existing hinges. They are no longer available in the quantity you need, so forget about "matching them"... we need to figure out what will work instead.

I'm sure it is difficult, but if you could provide this information, Drooplug can probably help you with the hinges you need. He builds cabinets and can help you- if you tell him the information he needs to know.
 
  #37  
Old 07-03-12, 10:37 AM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Well the door is flush and maybe sticks out a couple of hairs but is hard to tell.

And is just a little shy of 3 quarter inches thick. So I guess that is the ovelay. In other words when the door is closed it sits in front of the frame so that is how much it sticks out I guess.
 
  #38  
Old 07-03-12, 10:46 AM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
VID 20120703 113341 - YouTube
 
Attached Images  
  #39  
Old 07-04-12, 03:34 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I decided too fix it my self. My dad and I finally got the door off and used hinges from the other good cabinet. Fixed the broken door. And then tomorrow we are going to use the lowes hinges on the other side so it goes into the cabinet instead of the half circle on the frame. Or I can get mepla hinges on ebay and use those. It was so easy. The curved plate pice goes into the half circle. Then another plate screws onto that (I'll attach a photo.) And then I'll screw the hinge on to the plate and it holds the hinge into place. So easy. The the hinges screw onto the door and walla (the circle part into to the door not the frame).

The olny problem would be finding replacement plates. They have to be same thickness I think. Unless each hinge is different. Or its universal.
 
Attached Images  
  #40  
Old 07-05-12, 05:56 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Well its all fixed now so thanks for all the help. We used hinges from the good side to fix the bad door. And the hinges from lowes to hack the other side where the wall is so nobody sees and there is more room to work with.

But anyhow all is fixed now. So thanks for the help.
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: