Heat Pumps, what cretes the energy factors?
#1
02-01-05, 04:19 PM
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Heat Pumps, what cretes the energy factors?
I have been reading up on heat pumps as much as possible. However there is a shortage of theory vs reality in regard to "Why" ! Therefore the questions I need/want to know go unanswered.
1. If a heat pump picks up the necessary heat/energy from the outside which is "Directly" related to the "coil" area on a outside unit, wouldn't doubling the coil area increase the volume/pickup to be processed into energy and therefore be a lot more efficient?
If this is not correct please explain why?
Changeling
1. If a heat pump picks up the necessary heat/energy from the outside which is "Directly" related to the "coil" area on a outside unit, wouldn't doubling the coil area increase the volume/pickup to be processed into energy and therefore be a lot more efficient?
If this is not correct please explain why?
Changeling
#2
02-01-05, 05:45 PM
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Your therory is valid changeling.
The more the coil area the more efficient the coil.
Although the more surface area the more need for a bigger fan to draw the air through it, so at some point it starts to cost money so there is a balancing point.
The designers keep trying to get the most from the unit that is within reason if they get too wild then people couldn't afford them. Gold is a great conductor of electricity but how many homes do you find with gold wires feeding it.
The more the coil area the more efficient the coil.
Although the more surface area the more need for a bigger fan to draw the air through it, so at some point it starts to cost money so there is a balancing point.
The designers keep trying to get the most from the unit that is within reason if they get too wild then people couldn't afford them. Gold is a great conductor of electricity but how many homes do you find with gold wires feeding it.
#3
02-02-05, 11:50 AM
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Scottg, bear with me, this is my idea, what do you think?
You could take an old unit with a good set of coils and disconnect everything except the fan. Solder the coils into your main unit coils and run the fan controls in tandem from the main unit. This would give you two times the surface area in coils, two fans, with the coils all acting as one unit. I can't see how this would not work!
Please respond with "any" problems you could possibly envision and I will check them out .
My main unit is a "RUDD". It has copper, NOT aluminum coils.
Changeling
PS. There is no way in hell that I will ever believe the manufactures do anything with the consumers interest at heart!
You could take an old unit with a good set of coils and disconnect everything except the fan. Solder the coils into your main unit coils and run the fan controls in tandem from the main unit. This would give you two times the surface area in coils, two fans, with the coils all acting as one unit. I can't see how this would not work!
Please respond with "any" problems you could possibly envision and I will check them out .
My main unit is a "RUDD". It has copper, NOT aluminum coils.
Changeling
PS. There is no way in hell that I will ever believe the manufactures do anything with the consumers interest at heart!
#4
02-02-05, 05:45 PM
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Sounds good but...............................
You have to keep in mind that an air to air heat pump acts also as central airconditioner.
You could theoretically pick up more heat with a larger outdoor coil but this coil also becomes the condenser when in cooling mode.
This would then not balance with the amount of heat that is being picked up from the inside of the house when it's an airconditioner.
Having the outdoor air at a higher temp gains efficiency, not an increase in volume.
Believe me, manufactures are trying to squeeze every bit of efficiency outta these things.
If there was an easy way they would have done it.
You could theoretically pick up more heat with a larger outdoor coil but this coil also becomes the condenser when in cooling mode.
This would then not balance with the amount of heat that is being picked up from the inside of the house when it's an airconditioner.
Having the outdoor air at a higher temp gains efficiency, not an increase in volume.
Believe me, manufactures are trying to squeeze every bit of efficiency outta these things.
If there was an easy way they would have done it.
#5
02-03-05, 11:58 AM
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So what you mean is to have a outdoor coil that is say two rows thick with two fans running at the same time.
Two motors running that takes away from the efficiency that you were trying to achieve.
Well then you would have two fans running, and twice the amount of refrigerant to go into the same size indoor coil.
This won't work.
The compressor is matched with the indoor and outdoor coils to accomodate not only for thermo conductivity, also to have gas condence to a liquid and then not to flash back to a Gas before it gets to the indoor coil, and also to have the oil go through the coil and back to the compressor.
These are just some of the things that I can think of just off hand.
Two motors running that takes away from the efficiency that you were trying to achieve.
Well then you would have two fans running, and twice the amount of refrigerant to go into the same size indoor coil.
This won't work.
The compressor is matched with the indoor and outdoor coils to accomodate not only for thermo conductivity, also to have gas condence to a liquid and then not to flash back to a Gas before it gets to the indoor coil, and also to have the oil go through the coil and back to the compressor.
These are just some of the things that I can think of just off hand.
#6
02-03-05, 12:08 PM
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#7
02-03-05, 04:57 PM
Just out of the box here again. Why dont you just take the coil and put it in the ground below frost line. Then the heatpump will think it has 52o air all the time. Now look how low the cost factor will be for heat or cool.
ED
ED
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02-04-05, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed Imeduc
Just out of the box here again. Why dont you just take the coil and put it in the ground below frost line. Then the heatpump will think it has 52o air all the time. Now look how low the cost factor will be for heat or cool.
ED
ED
I haven't given up on the idea yet either. I have requested the help of a heating engineer from Maryland University. I am sure they will help, it just takes time to get hooked up with a engineer.
#12
02-04-05, 02:31 PM
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"I have requested the help of a heating engineer from Maryland University."
Not trying to be smart or anything, but you're in for a real mess and heap of money going with an engineer for a residential system. You can buy a geo unit and install it and be done with it.
Not trying to be smart or anything, but you're in for a real mess and heap of money going with an engineer for a residential system. You can buy a geo unit and install it and be done with it.
#13
02-05-05, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mattison
"I have requested the help of a heating engineer from Maryland University."
Not trying to be smart or anything, but you're in for a real mess and heap of money going with an engineer for a residential system. You can buy a geo unit and install it and be done with it.
Not trying to be smart or anything, but you're in for a real mess and heap of money going with an engineer for a residential system. You can buy a geo unit and install it and be done with it.
I just want to see what they have to say about some of the ideas floating around in my head. More than likely they will just float away, but I don't know untill I try to the best of my ability to find out.
Ed, I will go back there and investigate more.
Changeling
#15
02-05-05, 01:27 PM
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Ed, I went back to the site you recommended and had a hard time actually understanding what they were talking about. It appears they are aimed more at commercial applications, but I emailed them anyway and gave complete specifications of my home, I requested a "Cost" estimate for there system before I go any further with them, waiting for a reply now.
I'll let you guys know as soon as I hear something.
Changeling
I'll let you guys know as soon as I hear something.
Changeling
