Clicking noise from solenoid

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  #1  
Old 01-04-06, 10:34 AM
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Clicking noise from solenoid

I just bought this house in August and it has what I believe to be a Carrier system (heat pump). House is all electric.

The system heats great but I noticed a periodic clicking noise that appears to be coming from a solenoid in the outside unit. it will click every half second or so for about 10 minutes and will stop when the thermostat shuts off the compressor.

It doesnt click all the time and for the most part, it seems to happen rarely (I've only heard it 2 or 3 times). Most of the time the unit is quiet (just the compressor and fan hum).

the vent temps are warm when the clicking occurs (no difference from when its not clicking).

I've never seen ice or frost on the outside coils as well. I am in central Arkansas.

Is this clicking normal? Like I said, I still get great heat out of it whether its clicking away or not.

I can look at the setup inside the outside unit and get a better description of where the solenoid is located if needed. (Actually, I really just guessing its a solenoid because it sounds like one).

The model number for the inside unit is: FA4ANFO42
the product number for the inside unit is: FA4ANF042000AAAA

The model number for the outside unit is: HA1AJ036-B
The product number for the outside unit is:HA1AJX036000ABAA.

I was told (by Mattison) that this is a 3 ton outside Carrier unit.
 
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Old 01-08-06, 05:32 AM
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looks like I always ask the questions no one can answer.

The unit started clicking again yesterday and i took another look at it.

I removed the back cover to the unit outside and got access to the circuit board. It sounded like one of the relays was also clicking. I wiggled the connections to the board and the clicking came and went but didnt seem related to any particular connection.

then I pushed on the circuit board and the clicking came and went so it looks like i have a bad solder connection somewhere on the circuit board.
 
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Old 01-08-06, 07:03 PM
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Is it clicking every now and then like it is energizing and de-energizing or is it chattering?

If it is chattering you probably have a loose 24v control wiring connection somewhere. I would tighten the wirenuts to the R, C, and O wirenuts.
 
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Old 01-09-06, 10:00 AM
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its a repetitive click every 3/4 second. Not a constant clatter. but very repetitive. click click click click click click.


I seem to have it in a position that made it stop but I will force it to do it again to see if I can narrow it down. Theres a nice schematic on the inside of the cover so I'll be able to tell you what the part is thats clicking. I can say that it appears, there is a relay on the board (black box with some wires going into it with the typical relay markings on it) that also makes a solenoid inside the unit click.
 
  #5  
Old 01-10-06, 05:25 PM
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click, click, click,......

aarcuda,

what you are hearing is the reversing valve trying to go into defrost mode.
it could be the defrost board, the reversing valve, loose wiring from the thermo. to the heat pump, bad or weakly energized selonoid coil, or a combo of above.
oh, wait, it also could be a defrost sensor going to the bad sending mixed signals to the defrost board, the thermo., airhandler control board. see why being a tech is so much fun? there are so many different things that can go kabloowee, we kinda get to feel like cops tracking a crook. seriously though,
you need to have this looked at so it does'nt mess up anything that still is
salvagable. get a co. that your'e friends or good neighbors will recommend.
(don't ask the bad neighbor, they'll send you a hack).

barry
 
  #6  
Old 01-17-06, 06:11 AM
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it started clicking again this morning and I went and looked at it. I noticed that the circuit board on the side of the unit which is held on with 4 screws was somewhat loose.

I tightened the four screws and the clicking stopped.

whats the chance that there is a case or chassis ground between the circuit board and the unit which is provided by the screws? Im thinking that there was some sort of floating ground to the board because of the loose screws cauing it to click.

I wish I could find a layout of the circuit board pwb (the schematic is on the inside of the cover). anyone have any experience with loose boards? could it be the trouble?
 
  #7  
Old 01-18-06, 07:57 PM
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aarcuda,

no. to your last question. sorry to tell you this, but, the heatpump would'nt
run at all if that was the problem.
check out/ troubleshoot the problems i posted last.

barry
 
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Old 01-19-06, 10:28 AM
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alright, I will get out there this weekend and start probing round with my meter. The clicking noise stopped when I tightened the board down so it seems like (if there isn't a ground loop issue with a loose board to chassis gnd) that I might have a bad wire connection or a bad solder joint.

with the board stabilized (tightened to the standoffs) I will try to make it start clicking by wiggling wires. If i cant make it click, I'll remover the board and check the solder joints under a microscope.

I doubt there is a bad sensor or a bad solenoid because it stops clicking when I touch the board (and I'm nowhere near the sensor or the solenoid when I do this).

whatever the problem is, its on that board.
 
  #9  
Old 01-19-06, 03:17 PM
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the infernal click

aarcuda,

the defrost board is most likely the culprit. it has two relays on it that
tells the heatpump (along with the other electronics) what to do ,among
them is to tell the heatpump to go into defrost mode, it works like this, in very simple terms( i'm not saying that you are not capable of technical terms, but others read these post too.):
the sensor (on the heatpump coil) or a timer built electonically on the board sends a signal to the blower on the heat pump to cut off and to reverse the valve on the heatpump,basically putting it into a/c mode, also it tells the air handler to turn on the aux/emerg. heat strips so you won't lose your comfort level in the home. after everybody is satisfied(timer or sensor) it goes back into normal heat mode,reverse valve, blower comes back on, heat strips cut-off, everything back to normal. by the way, at times when it is in defrost mode,
you may see something that looks like smoke rising out of the top of the heatpump while it sits there and hums, this is normal. whats happening is
the heat from the compressor and coils create steam.
i don't know what you would have to pay for a new board, you not being
certified, but they run from 28.00 to a couple hundred bucks for contractors.
your carrier should be around 35.00-50.00 if you can find a fergusons, or
a cc dicksons or maybe you might have a friend of a friend that can get you one. also, i would have one in my hands before i remove the old one to examine it because without it you will be left out in the cold. well, you could use the emerg. heat but the $$$. just make sure that you have the proper
make, model, stuff that you tell the guys at the auto parts store for a part for your car for example. good luck and let us know how it goes.

barry
 
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Old 01-21-06, 08:50 AM
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well, it did start clicking again so you were right on the money. it wasn't a simple "lets tighten it down" fix.

I found the board online for $112.00 (local dealer wanted $157!! Whats up with that???)

the board pn was CESO110063-02 (This is from memory now).

I went out there earlier and I checked out the solder joints on the boards and there were a bunch of cracked ones. I touched them up but it didnt help. In fact, at one point, the darn condensor fan wouldnt run with the compressor on.

So I ordered the board and it should be here 2 day air. Once it's in, I'll post the results.
 

Last edited by aarcuda; 01-21-06 at 10:42 AM.
  #11  
Old 01-21-06, 12:34 PM
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defrost boards

aarcuda,
GREAT HORNY TOADS!!! thats the same part that i use
for my carrier units out here but i have never ever paid
(my company at least) over forty bucks for one.
who the heck is the local ripoff, opps, i mean dealer
out there? wish i was in your neck of the woods,
hell i would of gave you one at my cost. but i guess
it is cheaper in the long run for you to do it yourself
( catchy little phrase) than for a hvac co. to put the screws to ya.
good luck and let us know whats going on when you
replace the part,
barry
 
  #12  
Old 01-23-06, 10:58 AM
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Talking Just some info

I also have a post in this site regarding my heat pump chattering and I believe that I too have a bad circuit board. Mine just happens to be a different on but I found my type at Patriot Supply's web site for a fraction of what others wanted. If you haven't committed, you may want to look there.

Tony Cooper
 
  #13  
Old 01-24-06, 12:44 PM
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Thanks for the web site but they were slightly higher. they wanted $129. I bought my on saturday at www.furnaceparts.com.

I wish had the hook ups to get it for $40 like Brentwood has.......
 
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Old 01-25-06, 11:13 AM
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Well, the board came in today. actually, A BOARD came in today. I thought I was ordering an OEM Carrier board with pn CES0110063-02. Instead, they sent me an aftermarket replacement board by ICM, which is ICM321C. It is supposed to be a direct replacement.

It was only $63 vs $120. I hope it actually is a direct replacement for the carrier board. (can anyone verify this?)

I will install it tonight and tell you all about it tomorrow. btw, if it works, they are going to give me credit for the difference but it still kind of burns me because I found the ICM321C board at www.famousparts.com for $48 (so had I WANTED the ICM board, I could have saved $15)
 
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Old 01-25-06, 05:55 PM
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aarcuda

aarcuda,

icm controls boards are what i use, in fact i have the diagram right in front of me as i write. the only thing i can tell you is that there are two points on the relay that you will have to plug in : there is a n c which = normally closed and a n o which = normally open, make sure( THESE ARE HARD TO READ at least for my old a**) that you place these wires into the right posistions.
fyi www.icmcontrols.com. . all the other plug ins should be natural.
oh, wait a second, make sure that the plug that goes into the board(sort of like a wiring harness plug that comes from the thermo wires) one may be plugged, not allowing you to push it in. tell us if that is the case.

barry
 
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Old 01-26-06, 05:34 AM
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i hooked it up last night and the harness went in no problem. I also made sure all the other wires went to their respective pins.

the relay that you speak of, on the original board, it had 3 spaces for terminals but only two were used. they were placed like this: II _ Where the middle terminal was cut short (not used).

The ICM board has a similar layout for the contacts (i.e., II _) but the center terminal is present. so I hooked the wires up like they were before ( on the first vertical and the horizontal with the middle vertical empty). I tried using an ohm meter to find out which were open or closed wrt the others but they all were connected (N.C.) so that didnt help much.

It seems to work. btw, those relay terminals are just just connected or open so it shouldnt matter if I crossed the two, right (not that I did but I figured I'd ask).

Two things I noticed. after I first hooked it up, everything worked fine. compressor came on, condensor fan came on (I call it a condensor fan but its the outside fan) and the inside blower fan came on. Later that night, when it came on again, I heard the compressor start but the outsde fan (condensor fan?) didn't come on right away. the compressor ran for about a minute or two (long enough for me to get a jacket and head outside) and then the outside fan came one (as I came outside).

Is that normal? I remember this happening at least once before with the old board too. the rest of the night (at least for when I paid attention to it) the fan seemed to come on with the compressor (and I always thought to be the correct operation). Should there ever be a time when the compressor starts andthe fan is delayed?

Now, the outside fan had been replace a year or two ago (before I owned the property). The schematic shows 3 wires coming off it and going to a 3 terminal cap. one of the fan wires was a brown wire that isnt used on the replacement fan (the wire is there but its cu on the inside of the unit and not connected to the cap)

BTW, I appreciate all the info. I'm a hardcore dyi'er from cars to plumbing to HVAC (I got my MVAC cert) to just about anything and I love figuring out how stuff works. any and all info is welcomed!
 
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Old 01-26-06, 08:38 PM
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life is good again!!!

aarcuda,

it would seem to me that the system is working properly. they will go into a timed defrost mode or a sensor defrost mode, or as i have seen on some units there will be a timed delay before starting the heat pump. on the board there should be jumper pins , 30,60,90, down as south as you live i would put the jumper to the 30 pin (humidity in the state). now, reread the post i placed
01-19-06 . btw what type of a thermo do you have? please let us know whats up.

barry






















ea
 
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Old 01-27-06, 08:15 PM
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well, I guess I should have read that a little closer. that sure did explain it well.

The system seems to be working great. No clicking. better yet, no getting out of bed in the middle of the night to wiggle the darn board to stop ot from ckicking. I appreciate your help. I really had no clue about heat pumps until I found this site and read all the posts. You guys really helped out.

The board I took out had the timer setting at 90 so I had set this one at 90 too when I put it in. I havent seen ice on the coils since we've been here but its been somewhat mild (a couple of nights in the 20's).

as for the thermostat. its looks original to the system (1992 or so). says carrier on it 2 temp scales fan switch and heat/aux/off switch. Theres a small Aux Ht light right in the center between the two temp scales but it doesnt seem to work (burnt out?). I am supposed to be getting a new white rodgers programmable HP thermostat (have to pick it up next week) but I dont know the pn. I'll post it when I know it.

For an old unit, it works like a charm and its cheap. My electric bill was only $123 last month. which brings me to my next question....
 

Last edited by aarcuda; 01-27-06 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 01-27-06, 08:52 PM
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Stop

aarcuda,

don't change the thermo just yet, the aux light emerg. light only will come on when called for, to light the air handlers heatstrips. if everything is working good for now please wait till the spring/summer to make any mods to the system if you are like me i'd rather be a liitle too warm than any too cold (old a** age).

barry
 
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Old 01-30-06, 10:15 AM
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good point. I know the light doesnt work cause I tested the heat strips out once and the light didnt come on. I will hold off on the thermostat tho. I have bigger problems to deal with now that I found water damage to my wall where the 2nd story deck is....

Sheesh, first a plumber (had septic problems) , then HVAC guy, now construction....

thanks again.
 
  #21  
Old 01-30-06, 06:44 PM
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comes in 3's

aarcuda,

isn't life grand? just when you take care of one problem, another one kicks you in the butt. such as the life of a do it your self guy or girl. at the risk of being redirected to another forum..... naw, i will let you repost on the right forum, i don't need to be kicked off and i alway's try to follow the rules. i know that we can now take on your next project.

barry
 
  #22  
Old 04-15-06, 11:56 AM
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theres another click coming from the control board. Its not the same click as before though but i remember I heard it before after I changed the defrost board.

This click is coming from a relay on the defrost board and it occurs every 8 seconds. doenst seem toi affect anything though- the heat works fine and the ac works great.

should I investigate this further or just say what the hell, its working.
 
  #23  
Old 04-16-06, 06:59 PM
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aarcuda,

i thought we were done with you well the cliks you are hearing
may be related to a different thing, it may be time to call in the best co. out in your neck of the woods to take a peek. normally these cliks you hear are the revesing valve going into heat mode, defrost mode, or the time delay some of these units have.
let us know whats going on.

barry
 
  #24  
Old 04-17-06, 09:55 AM
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its not a solenoid but a relay (labeled K3) on the defrost board (its just a light click). the defrost board is that aftermarket ICM 321 (?) board

it doesnt do it when the compressor is running but it is steady every 8 seconds. and doesnt seem to effect anything.
 
  #25  
Old 04-17-06, 06:50 PM
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some of those boards have two places to put the connector (spade to blade) normaly open/or closed make sure that you have picked the right one. if i remember right, the spade connector should go to the nc give me a day and i will make sure before i will be certain.(i just don't have that many probs w/boards).

barry
 
  #26  
Old 02-08-08, 08:35 AM
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Clicking noises from airconditioner on heat.

Aarcuda and Brentwoodpmg are seeing an interesting problem...and I have it as well.

The problem is that some teenage nutcase at Carrier used CD4000 technology to build a device intended for outdoor use in a poorly protected enclosure. If you look at the integrated circuits on the card you will find two CD4541 digital timers, and a CD4066 quad bilateral switch. These are the old (1960's) CMOS technology which operates at extremely high impedances. The slightest leakage due to dendrite or humidity is significant, and can screw up the works.

Dendrite is a common but little known phenomenon where a film of water forms on a surface betwen two terminals. This forms an electrolyte, and electric current starts to flow in it. The mechanism of electrolytic conduction is that electrons flow towards the positive terminal, and positive ions flow towards the negative terminal. These positive ions are atoms from the metal positive terminal with a few electrons missing.

If the water film dries out while this is happening, some metal atoms are stranded halfway, and plate out as a metalic film. A single such event leaves far too little metal on the insulator to do any harm, but after a few hundred such cycles, it has an effect.

I have at least temporarily cured my problem by thoroughly cleaning the card with alcohol and a stiff paintbrush (New), then blowing it dry with compressed air, then gently baking it with a hair dryer. Pay as much attention as possible to the gaps between IC legs.

Another bit of bad design is that components with spaces under them are installed tight down on the card. The relays, connector, and IC's should be installed as high as possible so that they don't accumulate and hold water under them.

I also note that the card was dipped in a conformal coat, but because the components are tight down, it appears that it didn't run under them. The connector header at the end is completely exposed.

I wonder if the ICM card has the same deficiencies???

Does anyone have a schematic of this card...I have started the huge task of tracing it, but it is always a thankless and time consuming task.

Paul Simison..

nnnn
 
  #27  
Old 08-29-09, 04:04 AM
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Same Problem Here

I have a 5 ton unit outside and when I came home yesterday, there was a loud clicking noise coming from the electronics housing on the unit. Also, the thermostat was dead as well. I tried to pull the disconnect and it continued to make the noise. I ended up having to turn off the breaker labeled heater to stop the noise. When I turned the breaker back on, it didn't make that noise anymore and the thermostat came back up (reading 81F downstairs...ouch). Well, it was late and didn't want to pay the after hours fees, so I waited until this morning. When I woke up, it was doing the same thing again. I am a DIY'er, but with the Misses pregnant, and it being August in South Carolina, there is no time to wait to order anything to save a few buck. I'll post back later when the HVAC guy/gal comes to service the unit.
 
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Old 02-17-10, 02:11 PM
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I know this is an older thread, but it's almost the exact situation that I've been through. I did receive the ICM321C board and installed it. Unit fired up immediately - heat (in my case) kicked in and life was good. Until I realized that the unit doesn't seem to be cycling off. it's running pretty much constant since the board was installed - the tstat doesn't seem to be calling for heat, but the outdoor unit is still churning away. (No; the contactor isn't welded closed - I checked) One thing I did notice comparing the carrier board to the ICM321C board is the pin setting for SPEEDUP on the carrier board doesn't exist on the ICM board. There are TEST pins that could carry the jumper in almost the exact location. Does anyone know if a jumper should be installed on it?
Could this be my current issue?
Many Thanks for any help.....

Wherewolf
 
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