I'm considering replacing my old 80% furnace with a heat pump w/electric supplemental heating. The main reason is that I want to demolish my old brick utility chimney to make room for kitchen cabinets and I don't want to vent a new gas furnace out the side of my basement. Also my gas bills were quite high last winter.

So, the question is, would an all-electric heat pump be a wise choice for a 1916 bungalow in Portland, Oregon. The house has little insulation and drafty windows (for now). It also has ductwork, but I plan on replacing all of it when I remodel the basement.

Opinions?

 

Not my area of expertise, but I had an uncle who lived across the Columbia from you in Vancouver (WA) who got by for years and years on a heat pump.

 

The main thing for you here is fuel cost to look atand compare. Go http://warmair.net and comparefuel cost there.If like here all we put in nowdays are heatpumps Have for years.
You also want to look at the HSPF of a heatpump with the seer of the AC. Best bet is a AC seer over 15 that can give you a HSPF of 8.05.

ED

 

jernst

I agree with Ed. Include a var speed air handler for either a single stg or 2 stg heat pump.

You might want to take a look and read IslandintheSun's thread. He lives in Seattle area which is perfect for a heat pump.

Be sure to check your electric rate and see if utility offers any
special rate for heating with heat pumps.

Good LucK!

 

We also live in the Portland, OR area and got 4 bids from 4 contractors, with 4 different brands! We're looking to add a heat pump and replace our 28 yr. old gas furnace, to provide more efficient heating and cooling, along with an IAQ filtration system. From my research, it appears that brand reliability/repair rate info is not available because there are too many performance variables such as quality of installation i.e. correct sizing & airflow & refrigerant charging, duct system leakage, and proper maintenance. I've come to the conclusion that the literature out there recommends that more consideration be given to choosing the contractor and the longest warranty/service contract as priorities. BUT, I STILL want info on GENERAL brand reliability/ repair rates!!! Can some knowledgeable person out there, that's not just trying to sell their own company's product, further educate me! We have a 1750 sq.foot single-level home with tall shady trees protecting the home until about 4 p.m., 1/2 of all windows still single pane, but extra insulation added in crawl space and attic (along with an attic fan set to kick in when attic temp. reaches 85 deg.). We've received bids for 2-stage, variable speed gas furnaces to work with a 3.0 ton, 13 SEER, freon, heat pump from Gibson; 2.5 ton 13 SEER, freon, from Ruud; 2.5 ton 13 SEER, no freon, from Coleman and 2.5 ton 15 SEER, no freon, from Carrier. We really never buy "top of the line" anything due to the high costs if we can get consumer report reliability with a more mid-range model. It is SO confusing! Any help is greatly appreciated. My husband is not really on my band wagon to get summer cooling because "we only have a few hot days" a year but I'm doing all the research and working with the contractors so I want all the knowledge I can get to convince him we're going to get the reliability & longevity to make the expense worth it!

cherib50

 

I think you are looking at this all wrong for where you live. That low seer is good for there on the AC. But it is not good if you want the heatpump to put out when you need it. Look at the HSPF of a unit. Thats for heat.
Like the best buy right now we have is the XL15i Thats a seer of 15.10 and a HSPF 8.05 . Use R22 freon for sure. Its made till 2030. Get 90% 2 stage furnace with V/S blower in it. most companys will have a 10 year warrenty on it all. Dont know that filter you said.
Id say the brands you said are bottom of the line. Units sound like builder models.
But like you said what ever the guy sells that has been around there for 20 years , is the make to buy.

ED

 

Ed,
Thanks for the info. I've read other posts recommending the Trane xl16i system as it's a 2-stage HP and the xl15i is a 1-stage HP. What's the benefit of a 2-stage vs. a 1-stage HP if the furnace/air handler is a 2-stage variable speed? I've read that the Trane model xl16i doesn't have a 2.5 ton size, but the xl15i & xl14i models do. Your posts seem biased towards the Trane xl15i system. When I went to the Trane website it seemed that the differences between them regarding SEER & HSPF weren't significant. What are the benefits of going with an xl15i model vs. xl14i model? I read somewhere that the xl14i model does not have a humidstat and it would have to be added, whereas the xl15i had the humidstat built-in - is this correct?

Also, could you recommend a reliable mid-range HP/ furnace system other than Trane?

cherib50

 

cherib50

On a 2 stg heat pump paired with var speed blower, you will get better dehumification and of course better operatinmg savings. That's the reason you see higher SEER ratings on 2 stg systems. If the cost difference between 2 stg and single stg heat pumps of similar quality is rather extreme(say more than $1000 and dehumidification is not a priority for your area/climate), then go with a single stg heat pump system paired with var speed air handler. And forget the backup gas heat. It is simply not needed for mild winter climates.

Now to Gibson. I agree with ED. Quality pays for itself in the long run and I would want a system that qualifies for the gov't credit. Trane for a long time has been the leader in heat pump technology and that is true today. Gibson is not in their league.
You might want to check on American Std which is Trane's sister company and usually can be purchased less expensive than a Trane.

Correct sizing is critical to a quality heat pump system since you will be getting both AC and heat from the heat pump. And of course your ductwork needs to be thoroughly inspected as to size, amount of supply/returns, overall condition/leakages, insulation properties,etc.

The only thing I disagree with Ed is the refrigerant-don't think it matters. I personally like the R-410a but would not pay extra for this type system. I would insist upon a written Manual J heat/cool load calcualtion.

My opinion.

 

After much research I have finally decided to take a 2-phased approach to my project.

I am going to start by installing a new Two stage, Variable Speed, High Efficiency (95%) furnace. Then, next year or maybe the year after that, I'll add a heat pump to it so that I have a "dual fuel" setup. This approach works best with my current budget while taking into consideration the overall system cost as well as allowing me to hedge the price of electricity against the price of gas in the future.

Thanks for all of the good responses on this subject.

 

jernst,

Since we both live in Portland, would you mind telling me what type (i.e. gas), brand of furnace you've chosen, and the bid amount? If it's not appropriate here, could you send me a private email with the name of the contractor you've chosen? Thanks.

Also, TigerDunes -

Thanks for your info. I so appreciate everyone's info to help educate the less knowledgeable consumer! I am interested in the dehumidifying capability as in the NorthWest, our wet cool winters are often teens-30's deg. at night and day temps. of 20-50 deg., with up to 100% humidity for days at a time. I assume that if the HP operates in heat mode till about 35-40 degrees outside, that the 2-stage HP would still dehumidify while in heat mode - is this a correct assumption? Since the Trane model xl16i that DOES have a 2-stage HP, but does NOT come in a 2.5 ton size that I need (and the xl15i & xl14i are only 1-stage HP's), what brand of HP would you recommend that is reliable, not top of the line expensive, comes in a 2.5 ton capacity, and has a 2-stage HP? Since it does get cold enough here to need a supplementary heat system, I still want the 2-speed variable gas furnace for the air blower.

cherib50