Newbie desires opinion Carrier, Lennox, Trane

Reply

  #1  
Old 04-06-07, 02:35 PM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Newbie desires opinion Carrier, Lennox, Trane

Hello all, curious as to your thoughts. My 16 yr old Trane HP needs to be replaced in the near future. I live in Central FL in a 1 story, 2000 conditioned sqft.

Currently quoted and being considered are (prices are normalized for 10 yr warrantees on all items including labor, extras, etc). This is a complete system replacement including lines and some duct work. All are 4 ton units.

Carrier Infintity 16 (15.80 SEER) - $8006
Lennox XP19 (17 SEER) - $7338
Trane XL16i (15.5 SEER) - $7885
Trane XL19i (16.55 SEER) - $7961

I would say the quality of the cos/installers I am looking at for these are equal across the offerings above.

Just looking at this here, my gut says the Lennox. What are your thoughts?

I am looking to make a decision on Monday.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 04-06-07, 07:07 PM
KField's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 3,245
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Have any of them offered the comfortmaxx verification? It is relatively new but assures you that your complete system is providing 90% of the efficiency it should. Otherwise the SEER is never realized. www.comfortmaxx.org explains it better. Just something to think about. I believe you are on the right track with the units. I prefer the Trane but they are all comparable. The 2 stage is great for dehumidification and the variable speed fans are great for comfort.

Ken
 
  #3  
Old 04-06-07, 08:04 PM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
No one has mentioned comfortmaxx verification.
When you mention Trane, which one?
Should I give consideration to R22 vs R410A?

Being that this is my 1st HP purchase, I did not want to be overly biased towards the Lennox based upon price. Until the quotes today, I was leaning towards the XL19i.

Should I see if I could get the XL19i (which has the clean effects system - which I have seen both good and bad on) at the Lennox price? I have no issues with haggling a little
 
  #4  
Old 04-06-07, 08:15 PM
KField's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 3,245
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I like the XL19i. I also like the pressures that R-22 works at better than the 410 but we can only hold out so long. If you go with R-22, your system may outlive the refrigerant. However, I predict a replacement refrigerant coming on the market before R-22 is gone. The same thing happened with R-12 and that was a lower temperature refrigerant. The reason I mentioned comfortmaxx is because most systems operate at around 50% total efficiency and that a makes them less effective and cost more to operate. Especially if any ducts are located in unconditioned areas. When the duct system is inspected and repaired as necessary, 90% is not hard to achieve. You even get a certification from NCI after your test data is uploaded to their database and verified. It could help for resale value and definitely helps stop poor quality contractors. If it doesn't meet the requirements, the contractor has to make repairs until it does. Good luck. Let us know which you decide on and how the job goes.

Ken
 
  #5  
Old 04-07-07, 05:24 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thank you for the reply. I have asked all cos quoting to look at the duct work and make all needed corrections/adjustments. All cos have line itemed some duct work (it is included in the quoted costs I listed). No ducts are in unconditioned areas.

Curious what factors about the XL19i are that you like. Please understand I am not trying to make you justify your opinion; I am trying to acquire as much knowledge as possible in a very short amount of time in order to make an informed, and hopefully wise decision.
 
  #6  
Old 04-07-07, 06:03 AM
KField's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 3,245
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I like the dual compressors, the variable speed outdoor fan motor, high and low pressure control, and the 10 year warranty. The 10 year warranty carries through to the indoor unit also with the XL models. 2 year labor warranty also from Trane dealers. The new (yet to be released) XL19I has a feature called charge assist. It helps the tech know when the unit is operating at or near factory temperatures. They will also communicate with the indoor unit and control the indoor fan motor. They said first quarter of 07 but I don't see them yet. Sticking with tried and true could be safer anyway. I can't speak for Lennox or Carrier because I don't deal with them so you can imagine that my opinion is biased from being affiliated with Trane. Take them at face value. Good luck. Let us know how your experience was with the installation and the comfort level after the work is finished. Hopefully you are getting the Trane 800 thermostat or the Honeywell TH8321.

Ken
 
  #7  
Old 04-07-07, 06:21 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Smile

Thank you for the response Ken.
All systems were priced (in the numbers I posted) with 10 years on
Labor
Parts (including refridgerent)
Coils (inside and outside)
Compressor

The Trane XL19i wass priced with the Honeywell digitial programmable counterpart of the Trane 800 (the co said it was a bit better than the trane).

The Lennox XP19 was priced with the SignatureStat
The Trane XL16i was priced with a Trane digital programmable (I suppose the 800, but it is not defined in the quote)

Thanks again everyone and keep the suggestions/opinions rolling. I am busy sewarching for all the info I can here.
 
  #8  
Old 04-07-07, 07:09 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
More info:
It looks like I am between the Lennox XP19 and Trane XL19i. In reviewing the prices I posted, I did not equalize for filtration. The XL19i quote includes CleanEffects. The Lennox includes neither AirPure or the Honeywell media filter.

In researching filtration, it looks like the Honeywell media filter would accomplish what I desire. So the equalized price points are:

Lennox XP19 with F200E Honeywell media filter - $7688
Trane XL19i with CleanEffects - $7961

I have found equal reviews (% of good vs bad) for both HP units.

I seem to have found more % of negative reviews of CleanEffects. To get the Trane rebates to get to the quote price, I have to purchase CleanEffects (included in quoted price).

So what I have when equalized is:
Lennox slightly less expensive
Lennox slightly higher SEER
Lennox slightly smaller outside unit (unit is right outside and to the side of a guest bedroom window)
Lennox possibly quieter (unit is right outside and to the side of a guest bedroom window)

Both installers have a good reputation in the area and offer quick repsonse to issues that I have researched. Both installers took the time to really understand what I desired, what current issues were, and investigated the current system (including duct work).

One system is R-22, the other R-410A. Both quotes include refridgerent for 10 years, so at least for that time, thoses costs appear neutralized. I will double check this to make sure I do not have to include any preventative maintenance contract for this. For now lets presume my understanding is correct. UPDATE: Refridgerent is included for 10 years on The LEnnox.

What other items do I need to consider that I am missing?

The Trane is a 2 reciprocating compressor unit, the Lennox is a 1 scroll compressor 2 stage unit. Is there anything there I should know about? All I could research is that scroll is newer and has less moving parts.

Thank you so much for your input!


Mark
 

Last edited by mapatton; 04-07-07 at 07:51 AM.
  #9  
Old 04-07-07, 08:21 AM
Ed Imeduc's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 18,389
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Wink

Ill go with ken here for THE TRANE units first by my book that XL19i has a seer of 17.90 and a HSPF of 8.90.
Then you dont say a V/S blower coil unit there .With that you can put a humidistat control for the AC that will slow the blower down and take out more humidity when it runs. Then kick back to high speed.
For cost down the line for sure stay with R22 . It will be made till 2030. It dont run at as high a head as R410a. Also if you have a leak with R410a it all has to come out and all new put back in.
I like the Xl19i cause it has 2 compressors in it. So just one is running or both. With the scroll compressor 2 stage unit. The compressor runs and just unloads one cylinder. So it need 75% power for just the one cylinder.
Dont forget with that seer over 15 you get a tax credit from the IRS.
Check and see how many times you had heat on there.Pump not worth it ??? I spent time down in Weat Palm Beach. There I didnt use the heat pump Just AC with back up electric for heat ( put the cost diff in the back)

Also look into a hot water recovery unit on the AC. This can give you free hot water for about 8 months there . Also kick up the SEER of the unit. Dont use it with a heatpump.
 
  #10  
Old 04-07-07, 08:33 AM
T
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 1,067
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
mapatton

A couple of questions.

What size is existing system you are replacing?

Have dealers inspected your ductwork as far as size,overall condition, supply/returns,insulation qualities, and addressed any hot/cold spot issues?

What size heat strip have your dealers recommended?

All of these brands have rebate programs. I believe the Lennox may be the only system to qualify for the Fed Energy Eff tax credit. You may want to verify with your dealers.

I don't believe the Trane qualifies for the rebate without the top end Trane stat which I don't like. I suggest a stat that controls the blower speed and measures inside humidity.

I think the question of R-22 vs R-410 is an overblown issue.

Trane's Clean Effects is more effective than the Honeywell media filter but it does run on electricity and does produce a small amount of ozone. You may want to look into the Lennox "PureAir" cleaning system. I am not familiar with this.

Does the Lennox quote include their "Humiditrol" system for superior dehumidification? I suggest you look into this for the humid Florida climate.

Both systems are very good but the Lennox may be more compelling as far as dehumidification.

My opinion.
 
  #11  
Old 04-07-07, 08:37 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ed Imeduc View Post
Ill go with ken here for THE TRANE units first by my book that XL19i has a seer of 17.90 and a HSPF of 8.90.
Then you dont say a V/S blower coil unit there .With that you can put a humidistat control for the AC that will slow the blower down and take out more humidity when it runs. Then kick back to high speed.
For cost down the line for sure stay with R22 . It will be made till 2030. It dont run at as high a head as R410a. Also if you have a leak with R410a it all has to come out and all new put back in.
I like the Xl19i cause it has 2 compressors in it. So just one is running or both. With the scroll compressor 2 stage unit. The compressor runs and just unloads one cylinder. So it need 75% power for just the one cylinder.
Dont forget with that seer over 15 you get a tax credit from the IRS.
Check and see how many times you had heat on there.Pump not worth it ??? I spent time down in Weat Palm Beach. There I didnt use the heat pump Just AC with back up electric for heat ( put the cost diff in the back)

Also look into a hot water recovery unit on the AC. This can give you free hot water for about 8 months there . Also kick up the SEER of the unit. Dont use it with a heatpump.
My quotes and paper work for the 4 ton units show the Lennox at SEER 17 and the Trane XL19i at 16.55. So really close to each other. Both quotes included V/S Blowers, and thermostats for humidity. We use the heat somewhat more here (Orlando) than WPB (actually we are 2 temp zones different than WPB) as exhibited from power bills during colder months.

I was able to confirm that refridgerent and the associated labor and parts are included in the quotes for 10 years. With this, I would presume the costs of refridgerents is largely negated for the life of the unnit (which I am planning on as 12-15 years for evaluation purposes).

I will ask about hot water recovery. Is this possible w/ a HP? I believe so. What is the cost of such an option on average.

What is the advantage of "It dont run at as high a head as R410a."?

Regarding XP19 - "The compressor runs and just unloads one cylinder. So it need 75% power for just the one cylinder." What sort of power is needed by the smaller Trane XL19i compressor? I presume the SEER rating doesn;t really address this as I understand SEER ratings are at full capacitity (so the larger compressor).

Again not looking for justifications to your respose, just trying to gather as much information as possible in a short time.

Many thanks!

Mark
 
  #12  
Old 04-07-07, 08:39 AM
mattison's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cinti, OH
Posts: 5,549
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Since the other guys have covered all the important things I will chime in with my opinion.

Either of the 2 choices will be excellent but if were me it would be the Trane. If you go with the Lennox you are stuck with Lennox dealers and if they can't make it out to repair your system soon enough to suit you at some point in the future you will not have many options of calling someone else because contractors must be Lennox dealers to get parts and it can be a challenge to get them if they're not.
 
  #13  
Old 04-07-07, 08:51 AM
Ed Imeduc's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 18,389
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Wink

A hot water recovery on the unit should be about $500 --$700. Now that should give you free hot water there for about 8 months. At the time I had 3 in the home and had the hot water power turned off the whole time. It also kicks up the seer of the AC.
When you run at a lower head or psi. It taks less AMPS

The stat dont count for the tax credit its just a seer over 15 is all you need . You do have to go to the ARI www. and get a print out of the seer of the units you put in. To turn in with the bill to the IRS for the credit
 
  #14  
Old 04-07-07, 09:04 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mattison View Post
Since the other guys have covered all the important things I will chime in with my opinion.

Either of the 2 choices will be excellent but if were me it would be the Trane. If you go with the Lennox you are stuck with Lennox dealers and if they can't make it out to repair your system soon enough to suit you at some point in the future you will not have many options of calling someone else because contractors must be Lennox dealers to get parts and it can be a challenge to get them if they're not.
Good observation,
I checked and there are 23 different Lennox dealers within 25 miles of me. Of those, 17 are within 15 miles (the co I would be using for the install is within 25 miles, but not 15 miles, though they are one of the largest networks in central FL).

As a comparison, there Trane listed 11 Trane Comfort specialists in my area.

Honestly, would that provide for enough options should things go astray?

Many Thanks!
 
  #15  
Old 04-07-07, 09:09 AM
Ed Imeduc's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 18,389
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Wink

Ill go this way. I sold Lennox for a time. Have sold Trane for years and still do.
 
  #16  
Old 04-07-07, 09:10 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ed Imeduc View Post
A hot water recovery on the unit should be about $500 --$700. Now that should give you free hot water there for about 8 months. At the time I had 3 in the home and had the hot water power turned off the whole time. It also kicks up the seer of the AC.
When you run at a lower head or psi. It taks less AMPS

The stat dont count for the tax credit its just a seer over 15 is all you need . You do have to go to the ARI www. and get a print out of the seer of the units you put in. To turn in with the bill to the IRS for the credit
Many thanks, I am researching this at the time.
So if I understand correctly, you actually (manually) shut off your HW power to use the recovery? (am researching) Or is there some method that automatically shuts it off if the recovery system is providing enough temp to the water?

Where at ARI site can I get the proof for the IRS? In some intial browsing on the site, I didn;t come across it.

Many Thanks!
 
  #17  
Old 04-07-07, 09:34 AM
Ed Imeduc's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 18,389
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Wink

So if I understand correctly, you actually (manually) shut off your HW power to use the recovery? (am researching) Or is there some method that automatically shuts it off if the recovery system is providing enough temp to the water?
No you can let it on. So if you need more hot water it will heat it. I just turned mine off at the time to just see what it would do is all. As long as the AC make the hot water the tstats on the tank will turn the power off.
 
  #18  
Old 04-07-07, 10:09 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by TigerDunes View Post
mapatton

A couple of questions.

What size is existing system you are replacing?

Have dealers inspected your ductwork as far as size,overall condition, supply/returns,insulation qualities, and addressed any hot/cold spot issues?

What size heat strip have your dealers recommended?

All of these brands have rebate programs. I believe the Lennox may be the only system to qualify for the Fed Energy Eff tax credit. You may want to verify with your dealers.

I don't believe the Trane qualifies for the rebate without the top end Trane stat which I don't like. I suggest a stat that controls the blower speed and measures inside humidity.

I think the question of R-22 vs R-410 is an overblown issue.

Trane's Clean Effects is more effective than the Honeywell media filter but it does run on electricity and does produce a small amount of ozone. You may want to look into the Lennox "PureAir" cleaning system. I am not familiar with this.

Does the Lennox quote include their "Humiditrol" system for superior dehumidification? I suggest you look into this for the humid Florida climate.

Both systems are very good but the Lennox may be more compelling as far as dehumidification.

My opinion.
Thank you for the reply Tiger.

Current system is a 3.5 ton single blower speed Trane HP unit that is 16 years old.

The dealers and I have discussed cold/warm spots, as well as flow issues. They have inspected duct work and recommended updates to it. Those costs are included in the quotes I posted. Both dealers conducted J-Load? measurements.

I can re-verify, but both dealers noted the Tax credit.

Heat strips have not been mentioned. I believe this is due to the fact that I am looking at HPs.

The PureAir system was priced but not included in the quote. In my latest quote posing, the Lennox included the Honeywell ($7688). The Trane did included the Clean Effects unit to get the rebates and pricing in the quotes ($7961).

The Trane system quoted uses the Honeywell stat for humidity. The Lennox I was quoted uses their Signature Stat which is their humiditrol one.

Many Thanks!
Still looking for input.
 
  #19  
Old 04-07-07, 12:44 PM
Ed Imeduc's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 18,389
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Wink

Heat strips have not been mentioned. I believe this is due to the fact that I am looking at HPs.

You do need them for back up and for defrost. But I dont think it will ever go into a defrost on you down there. But I did see frost 2 times in (WPB)

Any unit with a SEER of 15 or better will give you the tax credit. You do need the print out from the ARI www. for the unit.
 
  #20  
Old 04-07-07, 09:50 PM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
OK

Been doing more reading. I found the aux heater in the Trane quote. It appears to be 1410. Can not find any reference to it on the Trane site though.

Also, it appears I was wrong and the Humidtrol unit was not quoted. Without this, it appears the Trane handles reducing humidity better (a good thing in FL).

So here is where I am at now: before this hunt began, I was interested in the Trane. After getting quotes and listening to the dealers, I was leaning towards the Lennox.

After the comments here on the board (thank you all) and my latest reading, I am leaning back towards Trane. Someone had asked about the stat quoted with the Trane. It was the Honeywell VisionPro IAQ.

I kinda get the feeling that I can't make a bad decision betweeen the two. I just want to make the best one possible as this is $$$$.

Mark
 

Last edited by mapatton; 04-07-07 at 10:09 PM.
  #21  
Old 04-08-07, 05:29 AM
T
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 1,067
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
mapatton

Neither of the Trane HP systems qualify for Fed Energy Eff Tax Credit per info provided from Trane website. I believe the Lennox does qualify but you should confirm in writing with your Lennox dealer if this is an issue.

Be aware you must purchase a Trane programmable thermostat to qualify for their Spring 07 rebate program. You do not have to purchase the CleanEffects system to qualify for the rebate. Details below.

http://www.trane.com/Residential/Downloads/Trane%20Spring%202007%20Rebate%20final.pdf

You will require a heat strip for defrost or emergency heat.

I would ask your quoting Lennox dealer about "Humiditrol", function and cost.

IMO
 
  #22  
Old 04-08-07, 06:42 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thank you Tiger,

I see that on the Trane website. In looking at www.ARI.org it appears that it may qualify, but it seems to reference a discontinued product with a very similar number. This may be due to the fact that I saw there was suppose to be an upgrade to the XL19 to XL19i (which was quoted) in Q1 2007; and they may not have the updated info certified/posted as of yet. I have sent an email to the dealer specifically asking about this.

In looking at the Trane rebate, to get the rebate in my quote of $1200, the Cleaneffects needs to be purchased along with the stat. Stat only is $1000. As they quoted the VisionPro IAQ stat (at their recommendation), I believe they are allowing the full rebate with the Cleaneffects.

An Aux heater is in the Trane quote and is referenced as 1410. I could not find any info on this on their website though. I have a question about this into the dealer. My guess is the size is 14.10 KW.

I will ask the Lennox dealer about Humiditrol. In doing some research on the HVAC forum, it appears that using a V/S blower can handle a fair portion of the dehumidication while not over-cooling.

In addition, I have a question about hot water recovery into the Trane dealer, and will place one into the Lennox dealer.

Thanks for the info!

Mark
 

Last edited by mapatton; 04-08-07 at 07:15 AM.
  #23  
Old 04-08-07, 07:26 AM
T
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 1,067
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
mapatton

Just to be clear, a Trane programmable stat must be purchased to qualify for the Trane rebate per rebate details. This rebate comes from Trane not the Trane dealer. My experience is that rebate check normally takes 4-6 weeks.The dealer usually sends in the paperwork to Trane and mails the homeowner a copy of the paperwork. Of course the Trane dealer could falsify the rebate application but that's probably not a good idea. Just so you know.

As far as the Tax Credit, the XL19i does not qualify per list on Trane website. Trane should hang their head with embarrassment on this issue. Here is the qualifying list of models.

http://www.trane.com/Residential/Downloads/Trane%20Air%20Source%20Heat%20Pump.pdf

IMO
 

Last edited by TigerDunes; 04-08-07 at 08:04 AM.
  #24  
Old 04-08-07, 08:20 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the info Tiger

I have asked for the official word from the dealer. In looking at the Lennox site, it appears only the 2 ton version of the XP19 qualifies.

http://www.lennox.com/owners/epact/qualifications.asp

click on View a list of qualifying Lennox Heat Pumps.

A pop up comes up and only the 2 ton XP19 is reflected.

Defininately needs confirmation! But then again I do not think I will let a $300 tax credit be a defining point on making a $$$$ HVAC purchase.
 
  #25  
Old 04-09-07, 06:06 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The Trane dealer replied back with:
-the ARI Ref#1106275 - XL19i - 16.55 SEER.
-noted that with the extremely high efficiency HP, a hot water recover unit does not work as well
-he is rechecking the quote, but believes thew aux heat strip is 5kw 30 amp

EDIT - they confirmed it as a 10 kw heater

- the Honeywell stat does qualify for the rebate as it comes from Trane equipment supplier

I have a voice mail into the Lennox rep.

Any final comments/suggestions would be appreciated. I am hoping to make a decision by end of business today.

Mark
 

Last edited by mapatton; 04-09-07 at 11:01 AM.
  #26  
Old 04-09-07, 07:48 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The Lennox dealer called back:
-the aux heat strip is 10 kw
-ARI # can be provided for Taxes
-hot water recovery - same comment as the Trane rep
- Humiditrol - the rep noted that with the HP I am looking at, the V/S blower and the stat, humidity would not be an issue. He noted that he use to have the humiditrol in his own system, but when he relcaed the system recently, he removed it as he was able to accomplish the deired goal without it.

The Lennox dealer is really pushing a R-410A system though he quoted the XP19, a Trane XL19I (not the quote I am using for that option) and a Trane XL16i. He recommended that if I go with Trane, to go with the XL16i.

Why is he pushing R-410A so hard?

Looking forward to your responses,,,

Mark
 
  #27  
Old 04-09-07, 08:34 AM
Ed Imeduc's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 18,389
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Wink

-hot water recovery - same comment as the Trane rep

Its hard to beat free hot water for 8 months. Its got to kick up the seer some

R410a is a mix of freon Sooooooo. If you have a leak of any kind .You end up with a freon that is not a true R410a. So it will not work as good as the first charge of R410a works. You cant recover it or clean it. No one will take any old used freon back
 
  #28  
Old 04-09-07, 09:14 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ed Imeduc View Post
-hot water recovery - same comment as the Trane rep

Its hard to beat free hot water for 8 months. Its got to kick up the seer some

R410a is a mix of freon Sooooooo. If you have a leak of any kind .You end up with a freon that is not a true R410a. So it will not work as good as the first charge of R410a works. You cant recover it or clean it. No one will take any old used freon back
Hello
The comment the Trane rep made was
"We do offer hot water heat recovery systems. However, with extemely high efficiency heat pump systems, they do not work very well because the refrigerant discharge temp. that would normally heat the water is about 90 degrees cooler than standard efficiency systems."


Ed, why would the one rep be pushing a R-410A system, regradless of brand, so much?

Thanks and looking forward to your reply,

Mark
 

Last edited by mapatton; 04-09-07 at 10:32 AM.
  #29  
Old 04-09-07, 11:49 AM
Ed Imeduc's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 18,389
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Wink

Ed, why would the one rep be pushing a R-410A system, regradless of brand, so much?

Most of the time its all in what they can get hold of or what is in stock. That they want to get out.

You would turn the recovery off when you go to heat
 
  #30  
Old 04-09-07, 12:08 PM
H
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 76
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
my thoughts

Hi

I see you're replacing 3.5 ton with 4 ton equipment:

1. Has anyone checked to make sure the electric supply to the outdoor section is large enough for the larger unit?

2. What size heat strips does your current indoor unit have? If they are less than 10kw you'll need a larger electric service to the new indoor unit or you might not be able to hook up all of the heat strips in the new unit.

3. I would hate to see you put this new equipment in and then get a nasty [read $$$] surprise that you need to upsize the electric supplies to the new equipment.

4. The work includes some "ductwork modifications". I've been in very few homes in Florida that had adequately sized return air ducting. Since you're getting larger equipment, are you 1000% sure that the return air ducting will be adequately sized? It will make all the difference in the world, especially on a HP in the heat cycle.

5. My vote is for the Trane equipment. However, American Standard owns Trane and they revived the old AS namebrand [they used to make a/c units back in the 50's and 60's]. Todays American standard equipment is sister units to trane but sell for less money.
 
  #31  
Old 04-09-07, 12:49 PM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Many thanks for the replies.

<Has anyone checked to make sure the electric supply to the outdoor section is large enough for the larger unit? >

I would have to say yes. Both cos inspected the breaker box and elctrical. Current breaker is 60 amp.

<What size heat strips does your current indoor unit have? If they are less than 10kw you'll need a larger electric service to the new indoor unit or you might not be able to hook up all of the heat strips in the new unit. >

Current is 10 kw

< I would hate to see you put this new equipment in and then get a nasty [read $$$] surprise that you need to upsize the electric supplies to the new equipment.>

I will ask both companies to be sure that there quotes are accurate, and if needed to include in their quote.
UPDATE - the Lennox co confirmed that any and all needed electrical upgrades needed are included in the quote I have.

<The work includes some "ductwork modifications". I've been in very few homes in Florida that had adequately sized return air ducting. Since you're getting larger equipment, are you 1000% sure that the return air ducting will be adequately sized? It will make all the difference in the world, especially on a HP in the heat cycle.>

Return duct rework is included in both quotes.
UPDATE - the Lennox co confirmed that they calculated this and included those upgrades in the quote I have.

Many thanks - it looks like I will not be making a decision today - but rather tomorrow.
 

Last edited by mapatton; 04-09-07 at 01:04 PM.
  #32  
Old 04-09-07, 07:20 PM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thank you everyone for your thoughts. Currently my decision (made with my wife) is to go with the Trane, though it is a couple hundred more.

As I will not be contacting the co until mid-day Tues, if there is something you feel I haven;t considered, feel free to respond.

Mark
 
  #33  
Old 08-19-07, 10:37 AM
W
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
How did it go???

MAPatton-

It's been several months.
Which system did you install?
How is it operating?

Which company in the Central FL area did you choose? I also live in Central FL and I'm looking at either a 4 ton XL16i or XL19i.

Please share any info related to the above or lessons learned from the installation.

Thanks!
 
  #34  
Old 10-06-09, 07:16 PM
O
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Trane - Central Florida

Don't purchase as Trane. In the first four years they had to replace the condensor 3 times and one of the compressors once. they cover parts, you pay for labor.
 
  #35  
Old 10-07-09, 04:54 AM
KField's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 3,245
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Incredible

Are you absolutely sure the installer didn't have something to do with the problems? We are a very small company and we have installed probably 20 systems a year for the last 4 years and have had one warranty problem with a leaking evaporator coil. It would seem odd that you had more than one failure in the same system. Just putting in my 2 cents.

Ken
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: