410a

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Old 05-15-07, 05:38 AM
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410a

Guys just installed my first 410A unit this weekend 2ton Heil unit for my granddad. I know yall will be mad but I was impressed. The condenser is very quite. It was making condensate in know time.
 
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Old 05-15-07, 08:24 AM
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There ya you go. I think all of us will say that it works ok. Its just the more stuff you have to do with it is all. Pluse the cost of the R410a. Like if you have a leak over 1/2 you have to pull it all out and put all new in. Also you have to have a evacuation of the system of more than 500 microns. You have to look out more so moisture dont get it than you do with R22. You also should clean and blow the lines with nitrogen then the evacuation.
Hey a job is a job R22 or R410a . They both work the same.
 
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Old 05-17-07, 05:52 PM
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I don't understand the big deal with 410A

500 microns is still 500. Meaning no moisture. But when you get to 500 you need to do a micron rise test to ensure there is no moisture and evacuate longer if needed.

Since it's a blend and must be charged as liquid because of the different boil off rates you do need to recover all when there is a leak. What you recover turns to liquid and much can be recharged.

If (when) 410 gets used more here in central VA like it started before I left Virginia Beach I'm going to convert my dial a charge to 410a. Meaning I can recover a mixed charge into a cylinder and then, although slow, move liquid 410 the the dial a charge to the unit.

My thinking is that although time consuming it's cheaper to reuse the liquid that dispose of and also benifits the customer.

Good job Airman!

Chris
 
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Old 05-17-07, 09:45 PM
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Jarredsdad Might check it out. If you have a unit with R410a and it leaks out half or more. You do have to recover it from the unit. But as it is a mix the burn off of it is different. So now you dont have R410a anymore in what you took out of the unit. So you cant put it back in a unit. Also if you spill any of the oil used with the R410a. on or around any roof . Thats the end of the roof material . its called POLYOLESTER or POE . That also is why you have to pull a vac below 500. The oil will just pick up moisture from the air. If you have to put a suction line drier in a unit . You have to go back and take it out in 72 hr. WE have a few R410a units in now but try all the time to use only R22 units here
 
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Old 05-18-07, 05:35 PM
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After that last post

Mine that is.

I thought "Wait a minute, that's not all together true", so I went back to some of the links I have saved from my initial self education on 410A.

"If you have a leak from an R-410A system, does the entire charge have to be replaced, or can the system be topped off?
Since R-410A acts very much like a single component refrigerant, any change in composition due to a leak is minimal. The system can be topped off, without removing the entire charge. There is no practical limit to the number of times a unit can be topped-off or the refrigerant recovered from a unit. However, we do recommend that all leaks be repaired before topping a system off. Excessive superheat is an indication of low charge, and the possibility of a leak in the system should be considered. "

http://www.epatest.com/faq/R410A/#T10

"R-22 will be cheap and available through 2020

This is wishful thinking on the part of many service technicians. R-22 is being phased out globally, and the manufacturing plants that make R-22 in Europe, North America and other regions will eventually be shut down or converted to make other chemicals. Just this past year, the 3rd largest R-22 manufacturer in the U.S. closed its facility.

In 2003 the U.S. EPA implemented an allocation program which limits both the companies who can make and import R-22, and the amounts that they each can make or import. This essentially “capped” the supply of R-22 in the U.S.

In order to meet the reduction in use of ozone-depleting chemicals that Congress laid out in the Clean Air Act of 1990, the U.S. EPA expects to pass further laws before 2010 to reduce allocations of R-22 and other ozone-depleting chemicals.

By 2015, the cap on R-22 and other ozone-depleting HCFC refrigerants will be reduced to allow a maximum of about 60 million pounds of virgin (new) R-22 to be produced in or imported into the U.S. Currently, the U.S. uses over 160 million pounds each year!

Forecasting the effects of these regulations isn’t easy, but it sure doesn’t look good for R-22!"

http://www.honeywell.com/sites/portal?smap=410a&page=Myths&theme=T17#faq8

And as I said 500 microns is all you need be by straight or by triple evacuation. I don't know if this link will work as I had to sign into Carrier to get it, but you may want to rethink going below 500 (although Trane wants 350 sometimes (even R22)).

http://www.xpedio.carrier.com/idc/groups/public/documents/techlit/25hna-3si.pdf

Carrier only wants 500 microns for 410A.

Chris
 
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Old 05-18-07, 08:43 PM
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Chris,

Great post! Very good information there.

I agree the price of R-22 will go up and up as the supply depletes over the next decade.

Global warming is a serious issue, and I think purchasing a unit that can take 410a is a great way to help out the enviroment. Not gonna get on a political discussion about it, but that's my view.
 
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