Think I'm close to buying a new Trane system. Couple of questions.


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Old 09-27-07, 06:42 AM
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Think I'm close to buying a new Trane system. Couple of questions.

I'm going with a straight electric heat pump system. Seems like the air handler to go with is the 2/4TEE but I'm still undecided about the heat pump itself. I've been doing a lot of searching here and elsewhere online and know most of the arguments for and against these three (XL19i, Xl16i,XL15i) so don't need a rehashing of pros and cons of refrigerant type, dual stage vs two compressor etc .... but does anyone know definitively if the 16 and/or 19 qualify for the tax credit?

It's kindof buried but found the docs on their website certifying the xl15i and others for the straight ac units but nothing on the other two. According to the specs on the govt site the xl19i might not actually qualify because the hspf is barely below the 9 threshold (even though the seer is highest in the line) but it seems like the XL16i should qualify. I'll be asking the dealers giving me quotes obviously but would be nice to get some feedback here as well.

I realize that the tax credit is not big enough (compared to overall cost) to be the main thing when making the decision but the various other factors have me so close on these three that a few hundred bucks could swing me one way over the other.

Question two is about the CleanEffects system. I read about that quite a bit yesterday and seems like it's a good system (even if it apparently doesn't spec out quite as high as Trane's numbers would indicate) but it's not cheap. So, would it be better to buy a standalone system that might be more effective plus won't put any load on the system?

Lastly. Seems like the Trane thermostats aren't all the well thought of and a lot of people recommending the Honeywell IAQ. Since all of the rebates require getting a package with the Trane stat is it smart just to get the cheapest one they offer to qualify (for the rebate) and then either install the Honeywell after the fact or see if my installer minds just doing it when the system is being put in (assuming that doesn't violate any policies for them)?

Thanks again for all of the help.
 
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Old 09-27-07, 08:47 AM
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Post edited because I realized my confusion was because I didn't realize the xl15i came in both an R22 and R401 version and they have slightly different model numbers. If anyone wants quick links to Trane's tax credit pages they are below. Looks like only the R22 versions of the heat pump qualify for the credit ... or at least the only certification Trane has on the website at this point.

Link to xl15i tax credit cert


Tax credit model dropdown
 
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Old 09-27-07, 10:05 AM
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Wink

You will find anything over a seer of 15 gets the tax credit.
For sure stay with the R22 and the XL15i do get the V/S blower that way you can put a humidistat control on it to slow the blower down . This will pull more humidity out of the home for you.With this you will have a SEER of 15.10 and a HSPF of 8.05.
 
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Old 09-27-07, 10:26 AM
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Yeah, the way the law is speced out you only need a certain seer, eer and hspf but (maybe only if you're audited??) the manufacturer has to provide a signed certification saying it meets those numbers. For some reason Trane only has them for certain of their high efficiency models currently. Looks like I'm pretty much decided on the xl15i (in R22) so the point is moot for me since they do have the pdf on their site for that.

So I talked to the guys I'm leaning towards for install (coming tomorrow to give exact quote) and they told me that he'd have no problem installing a Honeywell thermostat and maybe even give me some sort of credit for the Trane stat I'd need to get for the rebate. He asked me to find out which model Honeywell people generally preferred (over the Trane). Is/are there specific ones that give the extra benefit with the VS air handlers?
 
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Old 09-27-07, 09:27 PM
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I'd go with the Honeywell IAQ t-stat. if you went with the 2-stage system. that t-stat is able to control the blower speed for humidity, and stage the electric heat.
 
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Old 09-28-07, 05:55 AM
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Beam

What area of country do you live?

Trane and their sister company AmStd make great heat pumps.

Here is the problem with Trane.

1.The heating BTUs on their heat pumps are light compared to the cooling loads depending on model,size,and system configuration.

Check the CEE HP directory.

2. Their stats absolutely stink and Trane should hang their head in embarassment. Yes, get the cheapo Trane stat that qualifies for their rebate and replace with the HW VisionPro IAQ.

3.And finally, check the Trane site for those heat pumps-model/size that qualifies for Fed Energy Eff tax credit. Very few even in their upper end models. Pitiful.

As far as filter cabinets, I think the CleanEffects is overkill for most households unless one has allergies or other medical conditions. Plus it does produce a small amt of ozone, burns a little electricity, and there are routine maintenance/cleaning issues. You have none of this with a 4-5" media filter cabinet.

IMO

http://www.ceehvacdirectory.org/hp.php

http://www.trane.com/residential/Tra..._Eligible.aspx
 
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Old 09-28-07, 07:31 AM
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Thanks for the replies. I'm in Charlottesville, VA.

The heat pump/air handler combo I'm looking at definitely qualifies according to the link I posted above on the Trane site and http://www.ceehvacdirectory.org for that combo (2TWX5036A1, TWE049E13) seems to confirm all the Trane numbers for eff:
Seer 16.25
EER: 13.6
HSPF: 9.0

So I don't know enough to judge the btu numbers ... or at least what the two heating numbers are.
AC btu = 36200
High Heating = 31000
Low Heating = 18900

What are 'High' and 'Low' referring to? Are either of these below what would be expected for a 3 ton unit?

Also, the cee thing lists it as discontinued .... maybe because it's the R22 version ... but I know that's the one they plan to install if they get the job. Was it recently discontinued but the units are still out there .... maybe that's why it's not (the R22 version) in the product list for the xl15i on the Trane site.

I have someone else coming over later in the day to get another estimate. He's an independent contractor but very well recommended and does a lot of work for a friend so I'd feel very comfortable having him do the work as well. He's going to give me a quote on the Trane system but also Amana which he likes and their warranty (as stated on the website) seems pretty great. I know you get mixed reviews of Goodman (which makes Amana ... right?) from some contractors but seems like they actually rate really well in JD Powers. Read somewhere that the main problem with them is that anyone can get hold of the equipment so their reputation suffers some from having more improper installations done rather than any inherent problem with the product.

Anyway, this place and everyone's help has been invaluable so far ... thanks again.
 
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Old 09-28-07, 07:36 AM
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Jay, is this the Honeywell model?
Honeywell TStat

Just searching on Honeywell IAQ seems to bring up multiple models. Are you saying that the only big benefit to it (over the trane tstat) is if you have a two stage compressor?
 
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Old 09-28-07, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by RBeam View Post
Jay, is this the Honeywell model?
Honeywell TStat

Just searching on Honeywell IAQ seems to bring up multiple models. Are you saying that the only big benefit to it (over the trane tstat) is if you have a two stage compressor?

Yes, that is the stat.

The big advantage to this stat is if you go with a variable speed air handler, this stat is able to control the humidity a bit better than the Trane's 803 (Over cools to dehumidify). The IAQ is able to slow down the blower to dry out the air a bit more.

it only use 3 wires, if your current set up don't have enough wire to support a two stage system with electric back up, you may have to pull wires.. Lot of time it takes a lot of time, or can't be done.

Also with this t-stat, you are able to tie other things to it if you do get it or down the road.

-Humidifier
-Fresh air damper/HRV/ERV system.
-Outdoor sensor (just for kicks to see outdoor temps, or help control the humidity in the winter)
-Remote room sensor. (read that room only, or avg temp between the room and t-stat)
 
 

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