Trane HP AUX Problem

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Old 02-10-08, 06:44 AM
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Trane HP AUX Problem

Ok,
I have a 4 month old Trane XL16i and indoor air handler of 4TEE3f37B1000A with electric strip backup. Also a DCONT802 thermostat. Here is the issue. When the thermostat is set to 70, and the indoor temp says 70, I would think the AUX would never come on since the temp is satisfied. What is happening is that the AUX will still cycle sometimes every 15 minutes or so. Another strange thing is there are 2 disconnect breakers in the front of the air handler for the AUX, If I disconnect the top breaker, the whole air handler shuts off. If just the bottom breaker, it does not shut the unit down. They have been out twice and noticed therm was programmed for an outdoor sensor, but they did not install one in the beginning. So they installed sensor. My question is, why is AUX coming on/off and also, shouldn't I be able to disconnect BOTH 60 AMP breakers to turn off AUX and still have furnace running ? Thanks
 
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Old 02-10-08, 07:26 AM
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For starter, I'd like to know what the advance set up is in the menu.

Here is the install manual if you did not get one.

I may not be able to reply right away, but I will reply as soon as I can today.
 
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Old 02-10-08, 07:29 AM
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By the way, here are the current stat settings:

0170 12
0200 0
0220 3
0230 3
0240 Not available
0250 Not available
0260 9
0270 9
0300 0
0310 Not available
0340 2
0350 15
0360 40

I was thinking of changing 0260 and 0270 to 4. Would this help? Thanks
 
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Old 02-10-08, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by homermandy View Post
I was thinking of changing 0260 and 0270 to 4. Would this help? Thanks
I was going to suggest set those at 3, but 4 will work out.

Do you know if 2nd stage is coming on before the Aux kicks in?
 
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Old 02-10-08, 09:51 AM
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I changed them to 4 and Aux has not kicked in for 2 hours, a definite improvement. It is 19deg outside and the HP is keeping up nicely. How can I tell if 2nd stage is kicking in? Thanks for the help by the way.
 
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Old 02-10-08, 09:58 AM
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Also, I am surprised this thermostat does not have an option to set the deg difference before Aux kicks on. A lot of the thermostats have it where you can set 3deg or more diff until Aux kicks in.
 
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Old 02-10-08, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by homermandy View Post
How can I tell if 2nd stage is kicking in? Thanks for the help by the way.
Pop the t-stat off the subase, and see if F and B is wired up?

If B is wired up and you have back lite(#280-1) on all time we have common hooked up. Take a small jumper wire from Y2 to F, when 2nd stage heat or cool kicks in the red LED will light up.

If B is not wired up to commonn at the air handler, hopefully you have an extra wire behind the wall to do this?

Originally Posted by homermandy View Post
Also, I am surprised this thermostat does not have an option to set the deg difference before Aux kicks on. A lot of the thermostats have it where you can set 3deg or more diff until Aux kicks in.
Honeywell does not do that, CPH (Cycles per hour) kinda off set it in a way, and they want to advoid the temp swing to keep the comfort up.

With an outdoor sensor it can lock out the Aux.. but this stat will only lock out down to 40˚.

You could upgrade to the next t-stat (Honeywell IAQ) to lock out the Aux heat at much lower temp.
 
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Old 02-11-08, 05:57 AM
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Is the Trane DCONT803 the same as the Honeywell VisionPro IAQ?
 
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Old 02-11-08, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by homermandy View Post
Is the Trane DCONT803 the same as the Honeywell VisionPro IAQ?
It looks the same, but does more. But being that you have the XL16i system, you are not really gaining alot with the IAQ. Only extras you be able to do is.

-Tie humidifier to it.
-Tie HRV, or Fresh Air damper to it.
-Easier to hook up outdoor sensor with out fishing up the wall.
-able to have more temp choices in Aux heat lock out, and/or Compressor lock out.
 
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Old 02-11-08, 07:27 AM
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Basically I want to lock out the AUX at like 10 deg to get rid of this excessive use of AUX and also for dehumidification with the A/C. I won't be adding any humidifier, dehumidifier, etc. So the IAQ is the only TSAT which will allow me to lock out AUX at such a low temp? Or is there another stat which will do the AUX lockout at low temp, Or should I go with one which I can set the difference deg manually? Thanks
 
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Old 02-11-08, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by homermandy View Post
So the IAQ is the only TSAT which will allow me to lock out AUX at such a low temp?
Yes.

What you could do, is change the set up #170 to 11, and Aux won't kick in... and when it really gets cold out, then switch it back to 12.

And I take it you do not use set back on the stat, Just HOLD or turn off the program future?
 
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Old 02-11-08, 08:08 AM
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That is exactly what I was looking for. Awesome, thanks.

Do you have any experience with the following Tsat?

http://www.acsuperstore.com/store/LUXPRO10.html

Model LuxPro PSD122E. Looks like it is for 2 stage heat plus aux/em. This lets you set 2 swing points in degress before each stage kicks in. Basically I don't need a programmable Tsat, but I need something that works with my variable speed blower and 2 stage HP. The important thing to me is absolute control over AUX. Thanks again...
 
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Old 02-11-08, 08:11 AM
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Sorry, forgot to mention I just HOLD the temp at 70. Thanks
 
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Old 02-11-08, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by homermandy View Post
That is exactly what I was looking for. Awesome, thanks.

Do you have any experience with the following Tsat?
Lux is Avg line t-stat, I did take a peek at it, and looks like it could work, BUT, the only down fall is that when Aux kicks in, Both 10k and 5k is turning on

Where your stat now, Aux and E is wired alone, on the Lux, they are jumpered together.

I'd rather have 5k of heat come on in Heat pump mode than 15k!

If I were you, keep what you got now, and switch the set up over like I said eariler, or get the IAQ down the road.
 
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Old 02-11-08, 08:40 AM
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That's what I was looking for. So in my current TSAT, when AUX kicks in, I get the AUX in stages I assume? I appreciate all your help. Thanks...
 
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Old 02-11-08, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by homermandy View Post
So in my current TSAT, when AUX kicks in, I get the AUX in stages I assume?
yes, When you are running in normal HEAT mode, Aux will only kick in, and it's one stage. When you swtich over to EMG HEAT mode, then Aux and E will stage as needed.
 
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Old 02-11-08, 03:28 PM
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Well Jay, I found something interesting. Took my TSAT off and I noticed X2 and W1 are jumpered together. Went to air handler and W1,W2,W3 are jumpered together with only the W1/X2 from TSAT going to W1 of air handler. So I have been getting a full 15K every time my AUX is kicking in. So, what is the correct wiring method to only get 5K on Aux and 15K for emergency? Thanks...
 
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Old 02-11-08, 04:04 PM
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Ok you want W1 by itself to W1 on air handler.

X2 by itself going down to W2 and jumper over to W3.

Any wire from the heat pump going to any of the W's?

While you are digging around the wires, where is Y1 and Y2 going to at the air handler?
 
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Old 02-11-08, 05:35 PM
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Jay,
Here is the wiring:
N/C=not connected

Therm AirHandler Lug Outside Color

Y2 BK Green
F N/C
X2/W1 jump W1 Black
S1/S2 Sensor
RC/R jump
R R Red
O N/C Orange
Y Y Yellow
G G
B B

Air handler has R and O jumpered
W1/W2/W3 jumpered
T N/C

Hope this helps.
 
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Old 02-11-08, 05:56 PM
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That formatting came out bad. Here it is again:

NC=not connected
AH=air handler
HP=Heat pump

Y2 Therm to AH BK to HP Color Green
F Therm NC
X2/W1 Therm Jumpered to AH W1 to HP Color Black
S1/S2 Therm to Outside Sensor
RC/R Therm jumpered
R Therm to AH R to HP Color Red
O Therm NC to HP Color Orange
Y Therm to AH Y to HP Color Yellow
G Therm to AH G
B Therm to AH B

Air handler has R and O jumpered
Air habdler has W1/W2/W3 jumpered
Air handler has T NC
 
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Old 02-11-08, 06:02 PM
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[QUOTE=homermandy;1312760]
X2/W1 Therm Jumpered to AH W1 to HP Color Black

Air habdler has W1/W2/W3 jumpered
/QUOTE]

Ok, Wire the t-stat as I said in my last post, and then take the HP black wire and wire that on to W2/3.

What that wire is for when the heat pump goes into defrost, it turns on the heater to provide heat while the coil is "cooling" for the time being in defrost.
 
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Old 02-11-08, 06:21 PM
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Jay,
I can't thank you enough for all your help. You have been an awesome resource. By the way, did it look like my 2nd stage HP was wired correctly? And is it common for installers to jump all 3 heating elements onto AUX?
 
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Old 02-11-08, 06:27 PM
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Glad to help you out.

Yes, the HP is wired up right.. It been know to be a problem that installers don't read the manual for the XL16i, that Y2 needs to be wired at BK, Lot of them wires it to Y2 thinking it's the same as the XL19i.

The BK makes the blower run at 80%, where Y2 runs at 50%, and that's why I said earlier you won't be able to use the dehumid set up on the IAQ since BK is already is taken by Y2.

It is common to see all 3 stages of strip heat wired up since lot of them don't know that lot of newer stats now days can stage the electric heat as needed, where the old ones didn't do that.
 
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Old 02-13-08, 05:51 AM
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Jay,
I noticed this morning that the AUX was on and the temp was 67 with the therm set to 70. A half hour later, it read 68. Does the thermostat I have stage the AUX/EM heat? It seems like it just uses AUX only, of course I would have to sit and watch it for a while to confirm. By the way, I changed my 170 setting back to 12 since the HP was not keeping up with outside temps of 15deg. If my tsat does not offer the backup staging, does the IAQ? Thanks again.
 
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Old 02-13-08, 05:19 PM
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If you are in regular heat mode with heat pump, Aux will only kick in.

Yes, The IAQ will stage AUX 2 and AUX3 as needed.
 
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Old 02-13-08, 07:08 PM
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Thanks Jay. I ordered the IAQ today and will get it in a few days. Is the wiring the same as the Trane/VisionPro I have now? I didn't see any detailed installation wiring instructions at the Honeywell site like they have for the 8321. I may be hitting you up for some wiring verification in a few days. Thanks again.
 
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Old 02-13-08, 08:38 PM
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Pretty easy to wire, just let me know when you do need help. Also, did you order and outdoor sensor?
 
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Old 02-14-08, 05:53 AM
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I already had an outdoor sensor installed and it is hooked up to S1/S2 on my current stat. My current Trane stat is still puzzling me. This morning, outside temp 18, inside temp 70, setting 70. I watched Heat kick on, then within 1 minute AUX kicked in. I am puzzled as to why the AUX kicks in when the inside temp hasen't even dropped a degree.
 
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Old 02-14-08, 06:13 AM
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The stat has figured that the heat pump as reach it's 90% capicity, and will cycle aux on to maintain temp. As I posted earlier, Honeywell maint. the set point to advoid the swing.

On the new IAQ I think it gives you 2˚ swing before aux cyles in.
 
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Old 02-14-08, 08:33 AM
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Jay,
Do I need the EIM module to work with this IAQ tsat? OR are there the normal connections as the standard VisionPro stat has? The online installation manual only shows connections from the THM5421C module. Thanks.
 
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Old 02-14-08, 11:28 AM
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Yes, you need the the EIM to work with the stat.. YTH9421 is the complete set up.

The stat itself only used 3 wires on down to the EIM.
 
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Old 02-14-08, 11:45 AM
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I forgot to order the module yesterday so I ordered it today and will be here tomorrow. Based on my wiring scheme above, can you tell me which wires at the module terminals go to which wires on my furnace terminal? Also the wiring to the HP itself. I will want the 4H/2C setup to stage AUX heat. Also, installation instructions show 3 wires on left side of EIM which I know go to Tsat, but it looks like 5 wires on right side which they say to connect as shown, but it doesn't show the detail. Thanks
 
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Old 02-14-08, 11:51 AM
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I don't see your drawing above???

I will try to post back later tonight if we have nothing going on for V-day.
 
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Old 02-14-08, 11:58 AM
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I meant the text schematic showing colors/wirs/teminal designations from tsat/Air handler/Heat pump. Thanks
 
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Old 02-14-08, 03:10 PM
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Wink

My paper work shows W2 on the tstat to W2 in the air handler then that W2 out to the ODT in the condenser. Then from the ODT there back into the W3 in the air handler.
If this helps at all??
 
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Old 02-14-08, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Imeduc View Post
My paper work shows W2 on the tstat to W2 in the air handler then that W2 out to the ODT in the condenser. Then from the ODT there back into the W3 in the air handler.
If this helps at all??
If he has the the sensor on his outdoor unit.
 
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Old 02-14-08, 06:32 PM
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T-stat-color- EIM
1-Red-1
2-White-2
3-Blue-3

Y2 EIM to AH Y
Y2 EIM to AH BK to HP Color Green
Aux EIM to AH W1
Aux2 EIM to AH W2/W3 HP black to this when it goes to defrost.
S1/S2 to Outside Sensor
RC/R jumpered
R EIM to AH R to HP Color Red
O EIM to AH0 to HP Color Yellow
G EIM to AH G
Com EIM to AH B

Air handler has R and O jumpered
Air habdler has W1/W2/W3 jumpered
Air handler has T NC
Edit/Delete Message
 
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Old 02-15-08, 06:12 AM
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Jay,
So previously I had O Therm NC to HP Color Orange. And now the Orange is not connected to outside unit? Also, I was thinking of my advanced settings as follows:

0172---2
0174---2
0176---3
0180---?
0190---0
0200---0
0220---3
0230---3
0240---3
0250---3
0260---3
0300---0
0342---1
0350---10
0360---30
0365---0
0370---?
0372---?
0374---?
0379---?
0384---?

Is the O/B valve setting correct? Also, I thought this had 4 stages of heat, I only see setting of 3 stages in manual.And they list compressor cycle rate 0220 and 0230 and also a heat cycle rate 0240,0250,0260. Is the heat cycle rate only aux backup rate? Or is the compressor cycle rate heat also? Thanks in advance. Getting excited to install the tsat tonight. Any mounting/wiring advice at furnace?
 
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Old 02-15-08, 06:19 AM
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Also it looks like
Y2 EIM to AH Y
Y2 EIM to AH BK to HP Color Green

have 2 wires at Y2? Isn't there a Y at EIM with a Y2?

Thanks
 
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Old 02-15-08, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by homermandy View Post
Jay,
So previously I had O Therm NC to HP Color Orange. And now the Orange is not connected to outside unit?
You need O, that is your reversing valve in the heat pump. "NC" mean no connectings?


Also, I was thinking of my advanced settings as follows:[/quote]


0180- (This won't show if you set up heat pump mode)


0370---?
0372---?
0374---?
0379---?
0384---?
You won't be able to use this since BK is used for your two stage system.

they list compressor cycle rate 0220 and 0230
This your first and 2nd stage heat pump and cooling mode

and also a heat cycle rate 0240,0250,0260. Is the heat cycle rate only aux backup rate?
Yes, that the cycles for heat mode itself.


[/quote]Any mounting/wiring advice at furnace?[/QUOTE]
I don't know where or how your system is setup. MIne furnace is in the basement, and I have a return drop next to the furnace, so I have the EIM on my return duct, and wire over to the furnace.
 
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