Help! a New York Heat Pump/AC Problems

Reply

  #1  
Old 02-15-08, 10:12 PM
H
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Help! a New York Heat Pump/AC Problems

Our new HVAC system was installed finally in Nov. and it hasnt ever worked right as far as we can tell. Its a 3 1/2 ton York with 15 kw electric strip. Seems to blow out cold air most of the time, the return air fan wont shut off unless turned off at breaker box. We had it set at 68 day/62 night. First month heat bill was 308, second month 402! Hasnt even been extremely cold, and Dec's bill was for fairly mild weather. After the first major heat bill, we put up 10" blown insulation into attic. Obviously didnt help the bill. Our house needs more insulation but bills like this seem outrageous in a system that is supposed to be efficient and save money. Without heat, our light bill ran only about $61. This is a two story about 1800 sq ft. with 3 of the rooms upstairs. They came and "dampered down the system" to supposedly make it warmer downstairs and not so warm upstairs but it never really helped. We checked the temp at the registers and it barely made it to 62 downstairs.The unit is in the attic which we thought was not a good idea. We found condensation all over our the attic roof that wasnt there before the system was put in. We had 2 gable vents put into the attic to create cross ventilation that was needed before the system was put in. We can see that condensation will eventually ruin our insulation and ceilings... They used flexible ducting in the attic and then ran solid ducts down the walls to get to the 1st floor rooms. We never had a heat pump before and am wondering if we are right that there is something wrong with this system. Installer seems to not think there is a problem because they arent coming back out to fix it even when we call. We've turned it off because we cant afford to run it at this rate. Since we turned it off, no more condensation either...
Frustated in VA
 
  #2  
Old 02-16-08, 05:50 AM
M
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 479
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Heat Pump Help

You have quite a few problems and you have given us alot of info but the info doesn't help alot.
Turn your system on again and turn the tstat up high enough for the aux. heat lights to come on tak a temperature reading at your return grille and at one of the supply grilles that will tell us how much heating it is doing.
The fact that your bills are high but you still think you have cool supply air temps makes me think the return duct may not be properly sealed and drawing in cold attic air, but that is just a guess also the condensation in the attic makes me think you may be losing supply air in the attic.
Turn the fan on and check your ductwork, I know you shouldn't have to do that because you just bought a new unit but you have to get some heat and you have to get your bills inline.
 
  #3  
Old 02-16-08, 06:23 AM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
What do you have for t-stat?

If you got a basic one, chances are you electric heat strip is coming on from temp set back.

Heat pump can NOT recover quickly like gas heat, you need to set it and forget it.

Like what Mike said, what's the air temp at the vent up stairs near the air handler, and you have mention 62˚ downstairs.. That's pretty low.
 
  #4  
Old 02-16-08, 02:11 PM
Ed Imeduc's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 18,386
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Wink

Might go to http://warmair.net and compare fuel cost for where you are to see if this is how you should have went with the heatpump.
Since we turned it off, no more condensation either...
First here why are how did this happen. Leaks in the duct???

the return air fan wont shut off unless turned off at breaker box.
Why??? tstat not wired right, Bad blower relay, short in 24V wire. What do you get if you go to EME or AUX heat??

Installer seems to not think there is a problem because they arent coming back out to fix it even when we call.
Id for sure get them back. Also call York on this then and the BBB. When was last time they checked freon ???? leak in system??? Low charge????
You can have so many IFS IFS here that its hard for us to say just what it can be. Like said on a heat pump set the tstat and let it alone
 
  #5  
Old 02-16-08, 07:21 PM
D
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 49
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
We had it set at 68 day/62 night.
Do not set back your heat at night. Heat pumps do not recover efficiently from setbacks. In most setups more than a 2 degree temp change will cause the heat strip to turn on, and at 15,000 watts you want to avoid this as it will increase your electric bill.

Seems to blow out cold air most of the time
Well if the fan runs all the time it will blow cold air unless there is a call for heat. This is increasing your electric bill because you are running the fan for no reason. The fan should not run unless there is a call for heat ORRR the fan switch on your thermostat is set to on. (The fan switch is set to auto right???) ALSO you are circulating previously heated air back up into the attic flex ducts for no reason. This will cause some heat to be lost. Again the solution is not to run the fan unless the heat is on.

We found condensation all over our the attic roof that wasnt there before the system was put in.
As you already realize this is a serious problem. Condensation
occurs when moist air from the living area escapes into the attic AND the air temperature of the attic is approx 15 degrees higher than the outside air temperature. Moisture usually forms on the tips of the roofing nails first. Since the problem goes away when you turn off the system it points toward air duct leaks. Also increasing attic ventilation and insulation will help to fix this problem.
 
  #6  
Old 02-17-08, 02:06 PM
H
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks so much for trying to help me. Let's see. The thermostat is a Honeywell FocusPRO TH5000 series. Its non-programmable, digital. I did not know I shouldnt lower the heat at night. How then do you save electricity if you shouldnt set it lower when you dont need it? What if a person is gone all day and home at night? How do you use it then? Or do you have to just leave it running all the time regardless? This hasnt been the case, but could be in the future.

We always kept the fan switch on Auto.

We will have to try all those other suggestions and get back to you on the temps at the supply grill and other vents. Will check out that web site too.

Not sure I understand what you mean by "What do you get if you go to EME or AUX heat??" Do you mean if I change it to Emergency Heat or Aux. heat does the fan turn off?

We also believe that there is leakage somewhere, likely in those attic flex ducts. They appeared to have done a sloppy job of installing those and have pics of those before we put in insulation so the inspector could see the work. The air has to be escaping from somewhere and we sealed up most of all their holes left from doing the job where they put the ductwork through the ceilings and down into the floors to the 1st floor ceilings. It was not a neat & tidy job. The inspector did make them come back and seal the joints thoroughly on the ductwork in the upstairs because they hadnt finished doing that. They looked in the attic but didnt attempt to go back up and check their work up there.

Have already contacted the BBB and plan to call York tomorrow. Somebody's got to help us with this installer and make him come back to fix his job...
Thanks, Frustrated in VA.
 
  #7  
Old 02-17-08, 04:45 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by hoosier1889 View Post
The thermostat is a Honeywell FocusPRO TH5000 series. Its non-programmable, digital.
Ok, a good stat there.

I did not know I shouldnt lower the heat at night. How then do you save electricity if you shouldnt set it lower when you dont need it? What if a person is gone all day and home at night? How do you use it then? Or do you have to just leave it running all the time regardless?
Running the compressor is cheaper to run than having the electric heat to help recover from set back. On an avg heat pump You get about $3 worth of heat for every $1 you spent. Electric heat strip kicking in on recovery will $1 worth of heat for a $1 spent.

That's why lot service guys on here and else where says "Set it and forget it" and that maybe why the dealer put in a non-programable one in your home.

If you are going out of town for a few days, then yes, turn it down a few degrees. But in the day or night, just leave it be.
 
  #8  
Old 02-17-08, 06:00 PM
airman.1994's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 5,795
Received 8 Votes on 8 Posts
Where in VA are you?
 
  #9  
Old 02-18-08, 08:06 AM
T
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 1,067
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
hoosier

The biggest clue to solving your problem is the supply temperature from your registers. It should be in the low to mid 90s. Even higher with the aux heat strips running. Find out the reason why. There can be many possibilities and we would only be guessing but a good heat pump pro should be able to solve it.

IMO
 
  #10  
Old 02-20-08, 09:15 AM
H
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
We are in the Shenandoah Valley near Staunton.

Also, the aux heat was coming on and off every few minutes. Temp was set at 68 degrees, air supply fan running continuously, and heat coming out at vents downstairs was only 62, sometimes barely. Honestly, I'm afraid to turn it back on. Cant afford to. My new bill with 2 1/2 weeks of having it off is now only $276 down from $402 and so we saved about $126 for not running it the last 2 1/2 weeks. We've been using a new space heater occasionally as needed, which has 1500 watts and you can make it down to 750 once things get warmed up. So I am sure that part of the $276 is from the space heater.
 
  #11  
Old 02-20-08, 09:40 AM
Ed Imeduc's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 18,386
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Wink

Temp was set at 68 degrees, air supply fan running continuously, and heat coming out at vents downstairs was only 62, sometimes barely.
When the unit is running and the out door unit on. Feel the small copper line by the blower inside It should be warm. If not you can be low on freon or the outdoor TXV valve is bad.
 
  #12  
Old 02-20-08, 02:22 PM
O
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Central Oregon
Posts: 72
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
If you're used to gas or straight electric heating, with a heat pump the supply air will seem cool in comparison. Even running normally, the air temp coming out may be only 80-90 degrees.

Fan running full time: check the fan setting on the thermostat. It's usually set on "auto" (comes on as needed). If set to "on" the fan will run continuously.
 
  #13  
Old 02-20-08, 02:25 PM
O
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Central Oregon
Posts: 72
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
But that obviously doesn't answer everything. It's not working at all normally. The installing company needs to make it right.
 
  #14  
Old 02-22-08, 01:22 PM
M
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ft. Worth / Dallas Texas!
Posts: 64
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Troublesome heatpump or "where's my gun?!"

Hello all!

Firstly let us address the thing never turning off. Assuming that when you say "never" you mean that the thermostat is set to the OFF position and the fan is set to the AUTO position then either something is wired improperly, the fan relay is sticking or a heat sequencer with the fan on it is stuck (ouch).

Condensation: I agree with a previous poster; You should check all of the supply and return ducts to make sure that nothing is loose. In addition to that you should make sure that the dryer vent is not venting into the attic, I see this occasionally and the things create lots of humidity in the attic and lovely mold and other moisture loving fungi!

BACK to the unit! Set the unit to heat and bump it up only about 2 degrees above what the current temprature is, wait about 5 minutes (sometimes a time-delay on the thermostat or compressor) then go outside and see if the condenser (heat pump) is even coming on. Then go back inside and drop the temp DOWN a few degrees below room temp and go back outside and see if it shuts off.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: