Trane Models

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Old 01-09-09, 06:33 AM
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Trane Models

I am trying to compare 2 different Trane systems but I don't know what the model numbers mean. I thought the salesman said the 14 SEER uses a 13 Seer HP and gets the efficiency by using a variable speed AH. These are specs from different companies and the price difference is minimal.

14 SEER
4TWR3036
4TEE3F37

15 SEER
4TWR4036C1000A
4TEE3F40B1000A

Thanks for any help
 
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Old 01-09-09, 07:22 AM
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Outdoor Unit Model Number: 4TWR3036A1
combined with
Indoor Unit Model Number: 4TEE3D37A1
Manufactured by: TRANE
under the Trade/Brand name: XR13 WEATHERTRON
Cooling Capacity (Btuh): 35600
EER Rating (Cooling): 12.00
SEER Rating (Cooling): 14.00
Heating Capacity(Btuh) @ 47 F: 34000
Region IV HSPF Rating (Heating) 8.20
Heating Capacity(Btuh) @ 17 F: 19900

Outdoor Unit Model Number: 4TWR4036C1
combined with
Indoor Unit Model Number: 4TEE3F40B1
Manufactured by: TRANE
under the Trade/Brand name: XR14 WEATHERTRON
Cooling Capacity (Btuh): 36800
EER Rating (Cooling): 12.70
SEER Rating (Cooling): 15.00
Heating Capacity(Btuh) @ 47 F: 36200
Region IV HSPF Rating (Heating) 9.00
Heating Capacity(Btuh) @ 17 F: 23400
 
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Old 01-09-09, 08:01 AM
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Thanks,
Sounds like the 2nd unit is better for essentially the same money.
 
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Old 01-10-09, 11:50 AM
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Here are my configurations for replacing my HP. From a price standpoint (1) (2) and (5) are all the same price, about $6600, which includes removing and installing 4 new return lines and 6 new supply lines. The Carrier unit is about $800 less so I wonder if it may be a better deal. Any thoughts?

(1) Trane 4twr4036
4tee3f40
(2) Trane 4twr6036
4tee3f40 w/humidity control
(3) Carrier 25hcb336
fv4anf003
(4) Trane 4twx6036
4tee3f39
(5) Trane 4twr4036
4tee3f37
 
  #5  
Old 01-10-09, 03:01 PM
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What does the R vs X stand for in the Trane heat pump models?
 
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Old 01-10-09, 04:07 PM
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what type of equipment is your carrier install? Carrier has a really good product lineup and their entire system (HP, Furnace, T-stat, etc) all work very well together. Depending on the equipment in Carrier estimate, I'd go with the carrier. Trane systems don't have very good heating specs. Then again, neither does Carrier.
 
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Old 01-10-09, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
what type of equipment is your carrier install? Carrier has a really good product lineup and their entire system (HP, Furnace, T-stat, etc) all work very well together. Depending on the equipment in Carrier estimate, I'd go with the carrier. Trane systems don't have very good heating specs. Then again, neither does Carrier.
This is the unit that they quoted for $6000, which includes new supply and return ducts. The duct work is about a $1200 issue based on other quotes that I have recieved.
Carrier 25hcb336
fv4anf003
 
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Old 01-10-09, 05:13 PM
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I meant are those two-stage units? Variable speed? Are they from the Infinity series or weather maker series? Those model numbers don't mean anything to me.
 
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Old 01-10-09, 05:47 PM
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Carrier 25hcb336 13 seer 3 ton 410a. fv4anf003 variable AH.

See about a quote for American Standard. Exact same stuff as Trane but cheaper. AmStd makes Trane and charges extra for the T,R,A,N, and E.

The important thing to look at is the heating performance in low temps.

23400 is much better at 17 degrees than 19900.
 
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Old 01-10-09, 06:02 PM
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If you are getting other quotes, I'd suggest getting a quote for Amana (not goodman and not amana distinctions, just "Amana") equipment. Their efficiency ratings are much better than Trane or Carrier and are typically a bit cheaper but every bit as quality. Lennox would be another brand to get a quote on. They have better efficiency ratings than Carrier and Trane, typically, and are another top notch brand.
 
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Old 01-10-09, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
I meant are those two-stage units? Variable speed? Are they from the Infinity series or weather maker series? Those model numbers don't mean anything to me.
The numbers don't mean anything to me either which is the problem. Very hard to make meaningful comparisons. the 4twr6036 is a two stage unit but I am finding out that there are a couple of numbers missing that indicate if the units can "talk" to each other. All I really want is a reliable replacement.
 
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Old 01-11-09, 07:21 AM
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jtl46

I will refer you to the AHRI Directory which is the encyclopedia for matching HVAC systems with their performance/efficiency numbers.

back to your list 1-5, all three ton model Heat Pumps.

I will give you the numbers.

1. Trane XR14 with 4TEE3F40B1 air handler

1106452 Active Systems XR14 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR4036A1 4TEE3F40B1 36600 12.00 14.00 32600 8.55 20600

2.recheck HP condenser model number-it is not correct

3. Carrier Comfort 13 Puron with FV4BNF003 air handler

3033805 Active Systems COMFORT 13 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HCB336A30 FV4BN(B,F)003 34200 11.70 14.50 34400 8.10 20800

4. Trane XL16i with 4TEE3F39A1 air handler-this system while possibly still available has been discontinued

1104192 Discontinued Systems XL16I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX6036B1 4TEE3F39A1 35200 12.40 16.25 30000 8.70 17200

5. Trane XR14 with 4TEE3F37B1 air handler

1106451 Active Systems XR14 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR4036A1 4TEE3F37B1 35400 11.60 14.00 32000 8.70 23200


Dac raises a point that needs to be made clear. HP models have upgrades within the model. for instance, the XR14 has both the A1 and C1 model. The C1 has much better numbers and this is the preferred model.

see below and make the comparison.

1382535 Active Systems XR14 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR4036C1 4TEE3F40B1 36800 12.70 15.00 36200 9.00 23400

if this was my decision, it would be an easy one based on the models listed. I would go with the Trane XR14(C1) with 4TEE3F40B1 and the Honeywell Vision Pro IAQ stat that has the "dehumidify on demand" feature. This system has some of the best performance/eff numbers available. Don't let your dealer snooker you with any substitution. The C1 is the key with the right air handler.

what area of country do you live?

IMO


AHRI Certification Directory
 
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Old 01-11-09, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by TigerDunes View Post
jtl46

I will refer you to the AHRI Directory which is the encyclopedia for matching HVAC systems with their performance/efficiency numbers.

back to your list 1-5, all three ton model Heat Pumps.

I will give you the numbers.

1. Trane XR14 with 4TEE3F40B1 air handler

1106452 Active Systems XR14 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR4036A1 4TEE3F40B1 36600 12.00 14.00 32600 8.55 20600

2.recheck HP condenser model number-it is not correct

3. Carrier Comfort 13 Puron with FV4BNF003 air handler

3033805 Active Systems COMFORT 13 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HCB336A30 FV4BN(B,F)003 34200 11.70 14.50 34400 8.10 20800

4. Trane XL16i with 4TEE3F39A1 air handler-this system while possibly still available has been discontinued

1104192 Discontinued Systems XL16I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX6036B1 4TEE3F39A1 35200 12.40 16.25 30000 8.70 17200

5. Trane XR14 with 4TEE3F37B1 air handler

1106451 Active Systems XR14 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR4036A1 4TEE3F37B1 35400 11.60 14.00 32000 8.70 23200


Dac raises a point that needs to be made clear. HP models have upgrades within the model. for instance, the XR14 has both the A1 and C1 model. The C1 has much better numbers and this is the preferred model.

see below and make the comparison.

1382535 Active Systems XR14 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR4036C1 4TEE3F40B1 36800 12.70 15.00 36200 9.00 23400

if this was my decision, it would be an easy one based on the models listed. I would go with the Trane XR14(C1) with 4TEE3F40B1 and the Honeywell Vision Pro IAQ stat that has the "dehumidify on demand" feature. This system has some of the best performance/eff numbers available. Don't let your dealer snooker you with any substitution. The C1 is the key with the right air handler.

what area of country do you live?

IMO


AHRI Certification Directory
Tiger, thanks for the reply. I just want to say that I have read a number of your posts and you have done a great service to people.

I live in SW Florida so it is all about cooling and humidity. I initially thought the XL16i would be a good deal at only a $100 more than the XR units, but not if it is being discontinued. I guess the 2 stage thing is pretty meaningless in this model so the only advantage is a better warranty. I have bids from 2 dealers. One is for a 4TR4036C100A and a 4TEE3F40B1000A, the other company neglected to give me any letters or numbers after the 36 and 40 respectively. I am having new ducts installed, 4 returns and 6 supply which is what I have now, but it will take care of the leak problems and relocate the returns in the ceiling instead of using the wall cavities. The entire job is quoted at $6500 which good or bad appears to be the going rate. What do you or other on the forum think about the price. The t-stat was not described by model, but I can get a price based on your recommendation, which model is it. They appear to have a base unit and then other add-ons.
 

Last edited by jtl46; 01-11-09 at 09:34 AM.
  #14  
Old 01-11-09, 10:02 AM
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jtl46

I did not mean to imply that the two stg XL16i has been discontinued. It has not. The B1 version is being phased out for the C1 version. Regardless, I would not recommend the XL16i anyway. I do not like the 75/100% split on output especially for a summer climate like Florida plus I think two stg condensers are overkill and unnecessary for 99% of homeowners.

what is your average winter temp? the reason I ask is you might consider dropping the HP for a straight AC with heat strips. A HP can cost between $500-1000 more than the similar mdl AC unit.

$6500 with ductwork seems reasonable but I do want a stat with the dehumidify on demand feature especially for Florida summer/humidity. I do not like ductwork in the attic unless this is a second system for a two story level.

IMO
Good Luck!
 
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Old 01-11-09, 10:16 AM
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Tiger, you say you do not care for 2-stage units yet you seem to care about dehumidification. 2-stage units, maybe not for Trane, when combined with the VisionPRO IAQ or the likes, are much much better at controlling humidity than a single stage unit. This is especially true when temps are below 80 and the heat load is far from design levels.

I agree that 2-stage HPs don't provide a whole lot of benefit for those just concerned with $$, actually they are detrimental. But, if one is seriously concerned about home comfort and extending the run times under moderate to low loads, 2-stages should seriously be considered, IMO.
 
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Old 01-11-09, 10:51 AM
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badtic

I don't want to get off subject from the original post but the average homeowner has to weigh the costs vs the benefits of two stg HP/AC condensers. I do agree that the Infinity 16/17 AC/HPs do a good job with dehumidification and they have a 50/100 split on BTU output. with a stat like the HW VP IAQ, this does a nice job controlling humidity on a good sgl stg condenser without the extra cost of two stg equipment. of course, during rebate season the cost difference shrinks.

IMO
 
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Old 01-11-09, 11:39 AM
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Tiger, you may not like ducts in the attic but you must not live in FL because that is unfortunately where they go. No basements here.

I still wonder if there is a compelling reason to consider a XL16i with a digital humidity control stat. I need to get the full model number because all I have is 4TWR6036 with a 4TEE3F40 AH. The price with my duct work is $6650 out the door. 10 year parts and 2 yr labor, but if the two stage HP is going to be problems down the line I don't need it. I checked into the straight A/C and heat strips but I was told that it would not be cost effective by the time I updated the wiring. I imagine that the B1 version of the XL16i is the one they are quoting to get it out of stock. Shouldn't this unit be more $ than a XR with less SEER and less of a warranty? Are there issues with the B1 version of the 16i? I think I will have them quote an Am Std Heritage 15 as well, same as a Trane isn't it? I need advice so I can make a decision next week. Thanks!
 

Last edited by jtl46; 01-11-09 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 01-12-09, 05:35 AM
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jtl46

did not mean to insult you on ductwork in the attic. I realize that is the way it is for many homes in florida. just be certain it is insulated to code;I would think minimum R8 insulation but suggest you discuss with your installing dealer. Keep in mind insulation is relatively cheap compared to energy loss.

[quote=RyanHughes;2149852]See above. All in all, I'd avoid the 4TWX6036B1 unless you got the Communicating XL16i, which has better features for indoor humidity control.[/QUOTE

If the XL16i doesn't control humidity as well as the XR series I don't want it. I really thought the extra warranty of the XLi series might be worth it regardless of the 2 stage stuff. Guess I can write that off the list. Thanks for helping me.


I have been following your other thread on HVAC Talk forum.

I would not have the XL16i either old version or new version. Why? for several reasons. the old version was problematic. has a 75-100 split. poor dehumidifying properties for a premium system. does not work with stats like the HW VP IAQ. the new version is relatively new and has not been in the field but a short time. if you want a two stg, look at the Infinity 16 HP but be ready for sticker shock.

I still think the XR14(C1) would be a great system but if you want an upgrade look into the XL15i which is one of the best sgl stg HPs on the market. And I see you live close to the coast. Trane condensers hold up better in coastal environments.

how long do you think you will be in this home? and again if your av winter temp is high, you could go with an AC condenser with backup heat strips for heat and take your savings and place against an ext warranty parts/labor.

Trane's XL15i and Am Std Heritage 15 condensers are the same with exception of outside cabinetry and Trane's funky top.

why so many returns? do you plan to use 1" filters or have you thought of installing a 4-5" pleated media filter cabinet that has to be changed up to once/year?

IMO
 
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Old 01-12-09, 07:55 AM
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[QUOTE=TigerDunes;1500734]jtl46

did not mean to insult you on ductwork in the attic. I realize that is the way it is for many homes in florida. just be certain it is insulated to code;I would think minimum R8 insulation but suggest you discuss with your installing dealer. Keep in mind insulation is relatively cheap compared to energy loss.

Originally Posted by RyanHughes View Post
See above. All in all, I'd avoid the 4TWX6036B1 unless you got the Communicating XL16i, which has better features for indoor humidity control.[/QUOTE

If the XL16i doesn't control humidity as well as the XR series I don't want it. I really thought the extra warranty of the XLi series might be worth it regardless of the 2 stage stuff. Guess I can write that off the list. Thanks for helping me.
Originally Posted by RyanHughes View Post

I have been following your other thread on HVAC Talk forum.

I would not have the XL16i either old version or new version. Why? for several reasons. the old version was problematic. has a 75-100 split. poor dehumidifying properties for a premium system. does not work with stats like the HW VP IAQ. the new version is relatively new and has not been in the field but a short time. if you want a two stg, look at the Infinity 16 HP but be ready for sticker shock.

I still think the XR14(C1) would be a great system but if you want an upgrade look into the XL15i which is one of the best sgl stg HPs on the market. And I see you live close to the coast. Trane condensers hold up better in coastal environments.

how long do you think you will be in this home? and again if your av winter temp is high, you could go with an AC condenser with backup heat strips for heat and take your savings and place against an ext warranty parts/labor.

Trane's XL15i and Am Std Heritage 15 condensers are the same with exception of outside cabinetry and Trane's funky top.

why so many returns? do you plan to use 1" filters or have you thought of installing a 4-5" pleated media filter cabinet that has to be changed up to once/year?

IMO
I wasn't insulted just my dry sense of humor. The new ducts are flex and I believe they are rated at R-6. I have 4 returns now and I want to keep one in each bedroom (2) and I want a couple in the main living area. I am also going to re-insulate the attic because in needs it badly and that is a relatively lost cost benefit.

I have been going back and forth between the forums. I like HVAC-Talk because of all of the people that are in the HVAC trades. I don't like the fact that you can't say anything about pricing, but that is their call. To me it all comes down to quality/performance at the best possible price.

I asked for a bid on the Heritage 15 and the XL15i but I don't have them yet. From the Trane brochures I can't see much of difference between the XL and XR beyond cosmetics and the warranty. I think I will also get a bid on the Carrier 25HCB336A30/FV4BNF003T00. These model numbers are driving me insane. I was quoted a price on the forgoing HP but the AH they quoted was a FV4B not a FV4A. The Carrier site doesn't even show a HP starting with the number 25. What do you think of that unit. I am going to give up on the XL16i. I am getting the impression that the people that have been helpful (you and RyanHughes) like the Trane units. I do too since the current one has been trouble free for many years.

Thanks
 
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Old 01-12-09, 09:05 AM
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jtl46

the R8 insulation I was referring to was the ductwork-supplies and returns. It would be worth it because of the hot attic in the summer. If you have an internal hallway, I would add a return in that area,supply not necessary and locate stat in that area.

I would consider a whole house 4-5" pleated media filter cabinet with all those returns.

I thought you had already received a quote on the Carrier Comfort 13 system.

see below and make the comparison against the XR14(C1).

3. Carrier Comfort 13 Puron with FV4BNF003 air handler

3033805 Active Systems COMFORT 13 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HCB336A30 FV4BN(B,F)003 34200 11.70 14.50 34400 8.10 20800

1382535 Active Systems XR14 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR4036C1 4TEE3F40B1 36800 12.70 15.00 36200 9.00 23400

I would not have the Carrier Comfort compared to the above XR14 system.

The comparable Carrier mdl to the Trane XL15i is their Performance 15 mdl.

And don't mean to repeat myself, but if you elect the Trane, you do want the HW VP IAQ stat.

IMO
Good Luck!
 
  #21  
Old 01-12-09, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by TigerDunes View Post
jtl46

the R8 insulation I was referring to was the ductwork-supplies and returns. It would be worth it because of the hot attic in the summer. If you have an internal hallway, I would add a return in that area,supply not necessary and locate stat in that area.

I would consider a whole house 4-5" pleated media filter cabinet with all those returns.

I thought you had already received a quote on the Carrier Comfort 13 system.

see below and make the comparison against the XR14(C1).

3. Carrier Comfort 13 Puron with FV4BNF003 air handler

3033805 Active Systems COMFORT 13 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HCB336A30 FV4BN(B,F)003 34200 11.70 14.50 34400 8.10 20800

1382535 Active Systems XR14 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR4036C1 4TEE3F40B1 36800 12.70 15.00 36200 9.00 23400

I would not have the Carrier Comfort compared to the above XR14 system.

The comparable Carrier mdl to the Trane XL15i is their Performance 15 mdl.

And don't mean to repeat myself, but if you elect the Trane, you do want the HW VP IAQ stat.

IMO
Good Luck!
The house is pretty open, except for the bedrooms. There is really not a central hallway, but I want a return at each end of the living space. Air filtration has not been a problem so far.

I do have quotes on both of those systems. $5993 and $6836, respectively, including new ducts, line set, condensate pump. I agree, I wouldn't want the Comfort system. I asked for quotes on the XL15i, the Am Std Heritage 15 and the Carrier Performance 15. I am going to choose one of these units this week and be done with it. Thanks for the info and let me know if there is anything else to consider. OBTW I did as to include the Honeywell stat and the Infinity stat for the Carrier units.
 
  #22  
Old 01-12-09, 12:55 PM
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Tiger,
I did have a bid on the XL15i which is about $400 more than the XR 14 system. I am going to drive these guys nuts with my requests for additional quotes and questions but so what things are pretty slow down here in SW FL. Now I asked them to do load calcs (actually one of the contractors did not something like that because I watched him measure all the wall and windows). This old house had an existing 3 ton, but I but all new windows in and will be replacing all of the ducts and insulating the attic. This may change the size of the system. I also want to know how they are determining the duct size and number based on the quoted systems. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
 
  #23  
Old 01-13-09, 06:56 AM
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jtl46

adding insulation and other energy saving upgrades are good ideas both from cost savings and comfort. but with your area/climate and AC being more important than heating, I would not want to be borderline in cooling BTUs for hot Florida summers.

I would want to see a Man J heat/cool load calculation in writing before going down in size. just a good measure of protection both for homeowner and dealer.

and as far as ductwork goes, you need a min 400 CFMs for each ton of system size both supply and return.

$400 additional for the XL15i is not bad.

did you give any further thought to a whole house pleated media filter cabinet? now is the time since new ductwork is being installed. HW makes a relatively inexpensive cabinet.

I realize a HP would probably never have a call for defrost mode based on your location but you might consider a 5KW heat strip for emergency use if there ever was a problem with outside condenser in the winter. cost would be inconsequential.

one final thought. If your timetable for replacement is not an emergency and you do lean toward the XL15i system, this mdl is normally included in Trane's rebate program that usually begins in early spring. you might ask dealer about this if you have any interest.

IMO
Good Luck!
 

Last edited by TigerDunes; 01-13-09 at 08:29 AM.
  #24  
Old 01-13-09, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by TigerDunes View Post
jtl46

adding insulation and other energy saving upgrades are good ideas both from cost savings and comfort. but with your area/climate and AC being more important than heating, I would not want to be borderline in cooling BTUs for hot Florida summers.

I would want to see a Man J heat/cool load calculation in writing before going down in size. just a good measure of protection both for homeowner and dealer.

and as far as ductwork goes, you need a min 400 CFMs for each ton of system size both supply and return.

$400 additional for the XL15i is not bad.

did you give any further thought to a whole house pleated media filter cabinet? now is the time since new ductwork is being installed. HW makes a relatively inexpensive cabinet.

I realize a HP would probably never have a call for defrost mode based on your location but you might consider a 5KW heat strip for emergency use if there ever was a problem with outside condenser in the winter. cost would be inconsequential.

one final thought. If your timetable for replacement is not an emergency and you do lean toward the XL15i system, this mdl is normally included in Trane's rebate program that usually begins in early spring. you might ask dealer about this if you have any interest.

IMO
Good Luck!
Never thought much about the media filter because even the cheap one we use now doesn't seem to get dirty very fast. It is code here to put in a 5kw heat strip so that is included in the prices. One of the sales people is coming out tomorrow to go over the duct issue. He is the one who I think did a load calc because he took lots of measurements. The other company is going to do a load calc later this week, but only after I asked for it based on your recommendations and others who have been trying to help me. I wonder how much the XL15i rebate would be?
 
  #25  
Old 01-13-09, 12:03 PM
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jtl46

could you elaborate on your existing filter system, size and how often you change it out?

difficult to say and strictly guesstimating about rebate program, but assuming Trane offers a program and your dealer participates(I believe it is voluntary), I would think the XL15i with var speed air handler would probably be in the $500 range.

BTW, your Trane dealer is an authorized dealer and a Trane certified "Comfort Specialist"?

TD
 
  #26  
Old 01-13-09, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by TigerDunes View Post
jtl46

could you elaborate on your existing filter system, size and how often you change it out?

difficult to say and strictly guesstimating about rebate program, but assuming Trane offers a program and your dealer participates(I believe it is voluntary), I would think the XL15i with var speed air handler would probably be in the $500 range.

BTW, your Trane dealer is an authorized dealer and a Trane certified "Comfort Specialist"?

TD
Filter is just a 1" thick, Home Depot filter that goes in the AH.

One company is a Trane dealer the other company is not, but they have access to the brand. Neither of them advertises this product on their website so who knows. They have both been in business in this area for 30 years which is a lot for FL. I had a bid from a Trane dealer and Comfort Specialist and it was more money and I wasn't real impressed with the saleman "comfort specialist". Like all but one of the other companies he did not offer to do any load calcs.
 
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Old 01-13-09, 01:24 PM
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Based on the quotes that I have in my hand it is a choice between the 4TWR4036C/4TEE3F40B and the 5TWX5036/4TEE3F40 (those are all of the numbers that I have on that unit, but it is the XL15i0. I could not find a 5T HP in the directory. The price difference between the two units is only $350, but they don't come with the HW Vision Pro t-stat. I think they are TONT803.
 
  #28  
Old 01-13-09, 02:18 PM
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jtl46

there is not a 5T XL15i Trane HP. this is either a typo or dealer mistake

4TWX5036

4=the type refrigerant R-410a
TWX=XLi series condensers
5=XLi15 mdl
036=three ton size

your quoting dealers may or may not participate in Trane residential rebate program.

the 803 stat handles humidity by overcooling.

the HW VP IAQ has the separate "dehumidify on demand" feature which the 803 does not have. I have to say that Trane stats have been a weak link in their product line.

TD
 
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Old 01-13-09, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by TigerDunes View Post
jtl46

there is not a 5T XL15i Trane HP. this is either a typo or dealer mistake

4TWX5036

4=the type refrigerant R-410a
TWX=XLi series condensers
5=XLi15 mdl
036=three ton size

your quoting dealers may or may not participate in Trane residential rebate program.

the 803 stat handles humidity by overcooling.

the HW VP IAQ has the separate "dehumidify on demand" feature which the 803 does not have. I have to say that Trane stats have been a weak link in their product line.

TD
Thanks. The 5 must have been a typo. The dealer I am working with is in fact a Comfort Specialist according the Trane website. I just need to get him to match the price of the non-Trane dealer which is not much of a difference. The stat thing is interesting. So if I understand it correctly the 803 will just make the house cooler and wait for the temp to rise again before it turns on the unit. The VP will measure the humidity and turn on the unit if it is too high. Correct? I wonder what the price difference is? I can purchase a VP on line for about $160 but I have no idea if I need just the base unit or some of the other extras.

On the subject of extended warranties. I have never been a fan of these things and in fact have never purchased one. I thought about it on my car a few years ago but since I do most the maintenance myself if was not really worth it. It appears that the Trane extended warranty can be purchased anytime up to 5 years after the purchase. 5/10/10/ with a one year labor warranty doesn't seem too bad. Why pay another $750 for the extra labor and 5 years of parts. The only major part after 5 years is the vari motor. Is that thing that problematic? If so maybe a single speed is the solution. The one in this old beast is 17yo and still works like new. Thoughts? I am leaning toward the XR unit at 15 SEER and 12.7 EER. Will you miss me when I am no longer bugging you you for info. I really do appreciate your help.
 
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Old 01-14-09, 04:17 AM
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jtl46

I do not like the idea of buying ext warranty at the time of purchasing anything new whether car, appliances, electronics,HVAC, etc.

However, when I installed my Trane dual fuel system four yrs ago, in a weak moment I did get the ext warranty. I have not used it.

I would not buy an air handler or furnace without a var speed blower. However, it is covered for 10 yrs on the XLi system, only five on the XR system.

on the stats, I would insist on the HW VP IAQ for Fl summer climate. It must be the IAQ which I believe the mdl number is 8321.

IMO
 
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Old 01-14-09, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by TigerDunes View Post
jtl46

I do not like the idea of buying ext warranty at the time of purchasing anything new whether car, appliances, electronics,HVAC, etc.

However, when I installed my Trane dual fuel system four yrs ago, in a weak moment I did get the ext warranty. I have not used it.

I would not buy an air handler or furnace without a var speed blower. However, it is covered for 10 yrs on the XLi system, only five on the XR system.

on the stats, I would insist on the HW VP IAQ for Fl summer climate. It must be the IAQ which I believe the mdl number is 8321.

IMO
Everyone seems to be in agreement on the vari blower. I got the impression from the other site that these are temperamental and you can easily ruin them with the incorrect air flow. I can't recall whether it was too much resistance or too little. The choice at this point is really the XR vs the LXi with the latter having the advantage of an extra 1 year of labor and 5 years of parts warranty for $350. As you know the specs are almost identical, maybe a tad more cooling capacity.
 
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Old 01-14-09, 07:58 AM
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jtl46

for my money, the decision is a no-brainer. go for the XL15i system with VS air handler.

verify size with a load calc and request this in writing.

properly sized ductwork for new system-request R8 insulation

HW VP IAQ stat over the 803.

consider a whole house 4-5" pleated filter media cabinet like the HW that lasts up to one yr before changeout.

decide whether to wait for possible rebate and if dealer participates in this program.

IMO
Good Luck!
 
  #33  
Old 01-14-09, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by TigerDunes View Post
jtl46

for my money, the decision is a no-brainer. go for the XL15i system with VS air handler.

verify size with a load calc and request this in writing.

properly sized ductwork for new system-request R8 insulation

HW VP IAQ stat over the 803.

consider a whole house 4-5" pleated filter media cabinet like the HW that lasts up to one yr before changeout.

decide whether to wait for possible rebate and if dealer participates in this program.

IMO
Good Luck!
New wrinkle. I just got a quote for the Performance 15 with a 10 years parts warranty instead of the usual 5 years. It is $500 less than the XLi and comes with the Infinity stat. I think this is a deal. I am waiting for the complete model numbers. What do you think? The same company did a load calc it came in at 32843 BTU My other dealer was here when the Carrier quote came in via email. They are both Carrier and Trane dealers. He was very honest and said he could not touch it. He also said if in fact it is as presented he would take it a minute.
 
  #34  
Old 01-14-09, 09:52 AM
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jtl46

Carrier's Performance 15 and Trane's Xl15i are certainly comparable and IMO the best sgl stg HPs in the market. The sister companies Bryant and AmStd offer the same mdls-Preferred 15 and Heritage 15 HPs.

The Infinity controller is simply the best and most sophisticated available for the residential market. Period. Nuff said.

I do prefer the Trane condensers for a coastal environment because I believe they hold up better. If you do elect the Carrier Performance, you should insist that the Infinity air handler has the tin plated(T) evap coil. I believe it has become standard for Florida but you want to doublecheck.

Here are twothree ton Performance configurations that have excellent numbers.

1125687 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 15 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA536H30 FE4AN(B,F)005+UI 36000 13.00 15.50 36000 9.00 21800 1

1125689 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 15 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA536H30 FE4ANB006+UI 36000 13.00 16.00 36000 9.30 21800

Please note you want the Performance 15-"H" version to reach these numbers.

get the load calc in writing. at what design temps was cooling load calculated-outside temp and inside thermostat setting?

you can't go wrong with the Performance 15 if one of the above configured system with Infinity controller and T plated evap coil.

you have good pricing and choices.

IMO
Good Luck!
 
  #35  
Old 01-14-09, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by TigerDunes View Post
jtl46

Carrier's Performance 15 and Trane's Xl15i are certainly comparable and IMO the best sgl stg HPs in the market. The sister companies Bryant and AmStd offer the same mdls-Preferred 15 and Heritage 15 HPs.

The Infinity controller is simply the best and most sophisticated available for the residential market. Period. Nuff said.

I do prefer the Trane condensers for a coastal environment because I believe they hold up better. If you do elect the Carrier Performance, you should insist that the Infinity air handler has the tin plated(T) evap coil. I believe it has become standard for Florida but you want to doublecheck.

Here are twothree ton Performance configurations that have excellent numbers.

1125687 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 15 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA536H30 FE4AN(B,F)005+UI 36000 13.00 15.50 36000 9.00 21800 1

1125689 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 15 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA536H30 FE4ANB006+UI 36000 13.00 16.00 36000 9.30 21800

Please note you want the Performance 15-"H" version to reach these numbers.

get the load calc in writing. at what design temps was cooling load calculated-outside temp and inside thermostat setting?

you can't go wrong with the Performance 15 if one of the above configured system with Infinity controller and T plated evap coil.

you have good pricing and choices.

IMO
Good Luck!
I don't have the numbers yet but here are the numbers from a competitor, the one who suggested that I take the deal from his competitor. 25HPA536A003/FV4BNF005T00 I thought they looked pretty good unless I am missing something. He also said he prefers the Carrier over the Trane coil for this climate. He is in sales now but was a tech/installer for 20+ years before with this company. His bid for the above numbers was about 10% higher which makes me wonder. Too good to be true usually is.
 
  #36  
Old 01-14-09, 12:14 PM
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jtl46

25HPA536A003/FV4BNF005T00

this is the Performance 15-"A" version paired with the Performance Mdl VS air handler. This configuration does not support the Infinity controller.

you want the "H" version to reach the similar performance/ efficiency numbers as the XL15i.

you have to be very careful and know which models are being quoted.

3017920 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 15 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA536A30 FV4BN(B,F)005 36000 13.00 16.00 33400 8.20 19400

this configuration has poor heating efficiency which in your case may not matter

of course it's your call/decision but don't get snookered thinking you are getting something that you are not.

IMO
 
  #37  
Old 01-14-09, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TigerDunes View Post
jtl46

25HPA536A003/FV4BNF005T00

this is the Performance 15-"A" version paired with the Performance Mdl VS air handler. This configuration does not support the Infinity controller.

you want the "H" version to reach the similar performance/ efficiency numbers as the XL15i.

you have to be very careful and know which models are being quoted.

3017920 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 15 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA536A30 FV4BN(B,F)005 36000 13.00 16.00 33400 8.20 19400

this configuration has poor heating efficiency which in your case may not matter

of course it's your call/decision but don't get snookered thinking you are getting something that you are not.

IMO
Tiger, just when I thought it was safe to go outside something else happens. The quote that I thought was too good to be true, was just that. The guy quoted a Performance 14 with a FV4BN006 AH when I asked for the Performance 15. Then he acted like he was trying to save me money. He finally said the infinity controller would not work after first telling me it was not included on the non-Infinity systems. Then he told me that what he was supplying did the same thing. Now the quote for the system that I previously mentioned is about $300 more, but you are saying that the Infinity controller will still not work? The difference between the Performance 15 and the XL15i ( with the std stat) is now about $100. Similar warranty.
 

Last edited by jtl46; 01-14-09 at 02:02 PM.
  #38  
Old 01-14-09, 02:10 PM
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I am a little confused about the t-stats for the various systems. From what I understand the HW VP 9421 and the Infinity controller will take out more RH because that not only decrease the temp by 1 to 3 degrees but they also reduce the blower speed to give the air more time over the coil. Is that correct. How much of an advantage is that? Does that mean that without the more sophisticated controller the variable speed AH is not really doing much other than slowly ramping up to max speed. I admit I don't get it.
 
  #39  
Old 01-15-09, 06:08 AM
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jtl46

Trane's 803 simply overcools by a couple of degrees to handle humidity-longer run time.

with Carrier's Infinity controller, HW VP IAQ, and other thermidistats, humidity and cooling have separate settings.

for instance, your home's stat temp setting is satisfied but home feels muggy and humidity level is above setting. var speed blower will engage on low speed and outside condenser will run until humidity setting is satisfied.

if you live in an area with low humidity, then these premium stats are not necessary. however, in areas known for climates with high humidity, then it is a nice feature to have.

IMO
 
  #40  
Old 01-15-09, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by TigerDunes View Post
jtl46

Trane's 803 simply overcools by a couple of degrees to handle humidity-longer run time.

with Carrier's Infinity controller, HW VP IAQ, and other thermidistats, humidity and cooling have separate settings.

for instance, your home's stat temp setting is satisfied but home feels muggy and humidity level is above setting. var speed blower will engage on low speed and outside condenser will run until humidity setting is satisfied.

if you live in an area with low humidity, then these premium stats are not necessary. however, in areas known for climates with high humidity, then it is a nice feature to have.

IMO
Tiger, believe it or not I think I am running out of questions but I still have a couple left. Will the HW IAQ work on the Carrier units that do not have the Infinity circuitry in the AH.
What I am thinking now is to get the Performance 14 with the FV4BN006 AH which will get me 15 SEER and if I could get the better RH feature it just might fulfill my needs. Like I mentioned this unity comes with a 10 year parts warranty now so that is a plus.
 
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