contactor not pulling on, help

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  #1  
Old 03-30-10, 06:58 AM
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Red face contactor not pulling on, help

ruud unit split system, 2 ton heatpump getting 26 volts at the 2 yellow wires that connect to contactor when therm is flipped on. But contactor does not engage. If i push in contactor manually the unit works fine. I just replaced the contactor so i know that it must be something else, although i'm sure it didn't hurt to replace it since it is at least 18 yrs old. what would be the most likely problem here, the capacitors do not look swelled or anything like that....apreciate any help or advice
 
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  #2  
Old 03-30-10, 08:58 AM
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the old hum was the contactor. but as to why this one isnt kicking in when it has power??? you cant be getting power to it, if you go to the contactor itself on the sides where the wires hook up to it do you have 24v?
 
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Old 03-30-10, 10:40 AM
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thanks ender2272.....i went back out and checked the current on the 2 yellow wires going to the contactor again and there is 24 volts if you pull them off the connectors and check them, but as soon as you put them back on the contactor there is no voltage. There is 24 volts from the control bd to the defrost relay... Could this mean the relay is bad.... One other thing when i jump from the common on the control bd to the terminal on the other side of the contactor across from where the 24 volt terminals are the contactor will click on............. i sure appreciate you helping me with this
 

Last edited by oren; 03-30-10 at 01:38 PM.
  #4  
Old 03-30-10, 06:44 PM
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We call that phantom voltage. You read it on the wires when the load isn't there, in this case the contactor. Basically there is potential there but the circuit isn't complete.

You need to have one meter lead on common at the board. Then check "Y" coming in and out. Also check for voltage in and out of safety switches.

Does this unit have a manual rest high pressure switch? Little red button sticking out on the bottom where the line set connects? Try pushing the button.
 
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Old 03-31-10, 05:53 AM
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ok thanks, i found the push button switch and pressed it in but still nothing. The wire that comes from this push button switch is brown and connects to the terminal opposite side of the 24 volt yellow wire terminal on the contactor. the other brown wire from this switch ties by wire nut to another wire and goes into the box where the compressor is. If i put meter leads on the terminal where the brown switch wire hooks to the right side of the contactor, and put the other lead on the left side of the contactor where the 24 volt yellow wire hooks i get no reading on the meter, i assume there should be voltage reading there. Now if i put 1 lead on the common on the board and put the other on either side of the contactor i get 26 volts What would you suggest now .......again thanks for your help
 

Last edited by oren; 03-31-10 at 08:22 AM.
  #6  
Old 03-31-10, 09:40 AM
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Would like to see the wiring diagram at this point.

Post model and serial number. Maybe Houston or someone will post a diagram for us to look at.
 
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Old 03-31-10, 10:47 AM
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here's the model # UPGB-024JAS............serial # 4296G0892 1239...........I sure appreciate everyones help with this, i'm hoping i can get this fixed with you guys help, or at least find out what the problem is....BTW i don't know why but when i google the model # it ask me if i mean UPFB-024JAS......But it definately says UPGB on the unit, they must have changed the G to J at some point.......thanks
 
  #8  
Old 03-31-10, 04:01 PM
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Sounds like your common going to your contactor is open either through a switch or a loose connection . Run a piece of wire from your common to your contactor energize your system and see if your contactor pulls in. This common on the board i am assuming is the same as Common of your transformer? If it is jumper out your common directly back to C on your terminal strip. If the contactor pulls in then we need to see the wiring schematic. If its a direct common then replace or examine common wiring to contactor
 
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Old 03-31-10, 05:06 PM
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thanks lukep the contactor will pull in by jumping from common on the control bd, its dark outside now so i will do the other check in the morning.....thanks again
 
  #10  
Old 04-01-10, 10:25 AM
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i think the problem may be with the push button reset switch at the bottom of the unit. A yellow wire comes out the box where the compressor is and wire nuts to a brown wire that goes to the switch then another brown wire comes out the switch and goes to the contactor. when i hook these 2 wires together it cuts on the contactor.... I pulled the switch loose from the unit but there is a small coiled uo piece of either copper wire, or very small tubing hooked to the end of it and connects to a mufller in the line. If its not tubing i'm sure i can do it. Is that switch got to be for just this unit or will one about like it work .... i guess it would not be wise to just hook these wires together??? thanks
 
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Old 04-01-10, 03:09 PM
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Post pictures of this stuff?
 
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Old 04-01-10, 03:24 PM
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I pulled the switch loose from the unit but there is a small coiled uo piece of either copper wire, or very small tubing hooked to the end of it and connects to a mufller in the line. If its not tubing i'm sure i can do it. Is that switch got to be for just this unit or will one about like it work .... i guess it would not be wise to just hook these wires together??? thanks[/QUOTE]

Is this Muffler you are referring to connected to the compressor? If so it may be a High Discharge temp Cut out Stat. Look on the switch and post all numbers that you see.
They usally with give a cutout number Once we have this and the make of the switch we can look up what it is and what it does.
 
  #13  
Old 04-01-10, 04:59 PM
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thanks guys, i just got home and its already dark again, but i will try to post a couple pictures of this tommorrow..... But the exact words on this whatever it is says '' DO NOT REMOVE THIS IS A MUFFLER'' ... and it is hooked in one of the copper lines and the tiny coil goes from it to the reset switch next to where the cold freon line exits the unit....there is a number on the switch, i'll try to read it and post it also.
 
  #14  
Old 04-01-10, 05:12 PM
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oren, the switch is the high pressure safety. The muffler is there to reduce noise from the unit while it's running.

You maybe looking at a bad HP switch or a dirty coil.

Waiting for Ruud access here to look at a diagram.

Take digital pics of what you see and post so we can see.
 
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Old 04-02-10, 10:27 AM
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  #16  
Old 04-02-10, 08:35 PM
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you should be getting 24 v between one yellow wire on side of contactor and the brown wire on the opposite side. not between both yellow wires, because they are the same point. whatever the problem is it has to do with that brown wire.
 
  #17  
Old 04-03-10, 09:56 AM
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yes that is true i should be getting 24 volts between the yellow wire and the brown wire on the other side of contactor but i am not. That brown wire comes from that push button reset button, and i am assuming that switch is bad. If i touch the 2 brown wires together going to that switch then the contactor will pull in and work ok. Is there any way to operate the unit safely by tying these 2 brown wires together bypassing the switch temporarily of course or is not a good thing to do...
 
  #18  
Old 04-05-10, 02:52 PM
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oh ok so you knew that already, then i feel bad for repeating, but yes if you wish to bypass the high head pressure safety switch by bypassing the switch then go ahead. Now sometimes those switches will pop for no reason, but if it popped due to something wrong with the system then you will find out fast and that could even cause your compressor to break down if its related to why the switch popped in the first place. im sure you could order one online though
 
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Old 04-06-10, 08:26 AM
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thanks ender2272, i haven't run the unit by bypassing the reset switch only to check it out to see if it would run by doing this, which it will. And i was only asking for advice as to whether i could do this. Is it possible it could be something faulty with just the electrical part of the switch, because when i pressed the button the first time the o-ring seal popped out around the button (I don't ever remember having to reset with this button the whole time its been installed) should the unit click or do anything when i press the button... thanks
 
  #20  
Old 04-06-10, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by oren View Post
thanks ender2272, i haven't run the unit by bypassing the reset switch only to check it out to see if it would run by doing this, which it will. And i was only asking for advice as to whether i could do this. Is it possible it could be something faulty with just the electrical part of the switch, because when i pressed the button the first time the o-ring seal popped out around the button (I don't ever remember having to reset with this button the whole time its been installed) should the unit click or do anything when i press the button... thanks
I usually can feel it when i push in and it resets. Bad news is the switch cant be rebuilt, The refrigerant will have to be recovered and a new switch brazed in. If the system doesnt even try to run and its been off a long time you push in nothing happens then you jump the switch out and the compressor runs , then i would say you need to replace the switch.
 

Last edited by LukeP; 04-06-10 at 01:09 PM.
  #21  
Old 04-06-10, 05:16 PM
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thanks for all the help guys, guess i'll have to call the tech. At least it was fun trying to locate the problem and beleive i did although it may be something besides the switch, but i know there is no current going thru the switch. Guess if it is just the switch then maybe it won't cost to much to fix.....thanks again for all the help
 
  #22  
Old 04-07-10, 11:16 AM
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The switch is relatively cheap , what will will be costly is the labor to recover the refrigerant , braze in switch evacuate system and then charge.
I think you did a fine job locating the problem though
 
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Old 04-07-10, 02:29 PM
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Sorry I've been away guys.

Oren, go ahead and call a tech. But, ask that the tech have with him a "Screw on" manual reset HP switch.

Any supply store will have them. If the HP switch you have is at fault (sounds like it is to me) the tech can simply add a bolt on with a tee to the HP service port of the unit. Be sure he uses "leak lock" brand sealant to ensure there is are no refrigerant leaks.No refrigerant removal, evac, etc,. Most if not all manufacturers allow this on warranty service as it's less labor. 15 minutes is cheaper than 3 - 4 hours.
 

Last edited by Jarredsdad; 04-08-10 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 04-07-10, 07:46 PM
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thanks guys i really appreciate it, you've all been a great help. And i learned a little about something that i knew nothing of.
 
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Old 04-08-10, 05:26 PM
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Hey jarredsdad, just one more question. Just curious about this hp switch you mentioned. If it does not require removing the freon and vacuming. Then is this something that i could do or does it require a tech,what exactly would you ask for at the store...thanks
 
  #26  
Old 04-08-10, 06:20 PM
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It is a very simple procedure to put some leak lock on the existing port, add a tee and screw on / wire up a bolt on switch.

However, here at DIY, we consider anything that involves touching the sealed system to be a sealed system repair.

Therefore I am bound by agreement as a mod, and site/forum rules to advise that this is not a DIY repair.

That said, you have read the terms and conditions. I have communicated my obligations. You can re-read earlier posts and draw your on conclusions and decide what to do from there.

CYA, rules are rules.

Post back results.
 
  #27  
Old 04-09-10, 05:14 AM
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will the old reset button stay as is even though it does'nt work, do the 2 wires going to the old reset cut loose and go to the new one?
 
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Old 04-09-10, 07:53 AM
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Correct. As long as the old switch isn't leaking any refrigerant, disconnect the wires and wire in the new one.
 
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Old 04-09-10, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarredsdad View Post
Sorry I've been away guys.

Oren, go ahead and call a tech. But, ask that the tech have with him a "Screw on" manual reset HP switch.

Any supply store will have them. If the HP switch you have is at fault (sounds like it is to me) the tech can simply add a bolt on with a tee to the HP service port of the unit. Be sure he uses "leak lock" brand sealant to ensure there is are no refrigerant leaks.No refrigerant removal, evac, etc,. Most if not all manufacturers allow this on warranty service as it's less labor. 15 minutes is cheaper than 3 - 4 hours.
Hi JD not sure if you are referring to a piercing valve when you mentioned a bolt on. If so i was under the impression that these valves should be used to gain temporary access to a hermetically sealed system for checking system operating pressures
or for pressurizing for leak testing. Then removed and a permanent service port installed.
I was thinking its a EPA thing but its been many years.
 
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Old 04-09-10, 10:37 AM
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No. Not a piercing valve. I teach all my guys to use piercing valves to gain access when there are not service ports available. BUT, NEVER EVER walk away from a system with that valve still there. A piercing valve left on a system is a bolted on leak.

You can but HP, LP, and fan cycling switches that screw onto a service port. A tee is needed to have the new switch and retain the service port. I just developed the habit of calling them bolt on switches.

Here is an example. Not manual reset and would need a lockout relay to replace oren's switch.

High Pressure Switch, Range 350-250 PSIG - Single Pressure Controls - AC Refrigeration - HVACR : Grainger Industrial Supply
 
  #31  
Old 04-09-10, 04:33 PM
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You can get the screw on time with manual reset here is a picture of one.http://www.jbcontrols.com/doc/Pression/29ps.pdf
JD I though you may have meant a flare T but the bolt on through me
 
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Old 04-10-10, 11:25 AM
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That's it Luke. On of those switches and a tee like on at the top right of page 4 here:

http://www.jbind.com/catalog_multi-p...07_catalog.pdf

I always use a little leak lock on the fittings, just in case. It's cheap and easy and no leaks, ever.

Leak Lock - Highside Chemical
 
  #33  
Old 04-10-10, 06:09 PM
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how would i go about ordering one of those 29 ps manual reset pressure switches, the one without the tubing if i wanted to have it here for the tech. I don't see any way to order. I also am assuming i would need the 1/4'' access valve tee with depressor,part # a31851, and the leak lock. Is this right, and i should'nt need anything else unless there's another problem elswhere? So if i can just find out where to order the switch from i'll have everything to replace the old pressure switch.....thanks
 
  #34  
Old 04-10-10, 07:43 PM
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Search your area for an Aireco supply, R.E. Michel, Johnstone supply. Aireco will usually have everything.
 
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Old 04-11-10, 07:01 PM
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Hey Jarredsdad would this switch work on my unit, i don't seem to be able to find one any where else. would the 1/4'' female flare nut screw onto the tee ok.....Single Pressure Control, High Pressure - Single Pressure Controls - AC Refrigeration - HVACR : Grainger Industrial Supply
 
  #36  
Old 04-12-10, 02:19 PM
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That type would work. However the one you selected opens too high. Your compressor would die long before it got up to 630 psi.

If you use an automatic reset your tech would need to wire in a lockout relay.

ICM Controls

If you want to buy the switch and have your tech install (save 1/2 the switch cost or more) look here.

http://www.supco.com/images/pdfs/200...%208122009.pdf

Get an SMR375, botom of page 22.

Lots of NC distributors.
Distibutors List

You either need manual reset or a lockout to keep the unit off if the switch opens. Saves the compressor.
 
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Old 04-12-10, 02:24 PM
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P.s.

Grainger does have loads of stuff. But they charge 2 to 3 times what you can buy the same thing for else where.

We have an account with them and it's easier to buy from them than open accounts all over.

Just saying.

Get the right part, to do the right job. When you buy the switch, get a coil gun too and cleaner for your comdenser. Your compressor will love you for it.
 
  #38  
Old 04-12-10, 05:59 PM
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thanks one more time jarredsdad.........I will update you on my progress when its done... I'm in no hurry because the unit heats and cools about 800 sq ft. upstairs and there is no one occupying it. All my children have grown up and moved out, just my wife and me now and i very seldom even go upstairs. If the unit needed replacing i almost beleive i would go back with a small window heat pump for each room so they could be turned on only when needed....
 
  #39  
Old 05-03-10, 05:32 PM
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Just to let you know i got the new pressure switch, the tee, and the leak-lock cost under 100 bucks for everything. Put it on myself with no problem and the unit working good now for over a week..... Thanks again guys for all the help.....Oren
 
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Old 05-03-10, 06:49 PM
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Good deal. Glad it all worked out, cheap!
 
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