Help with auxiliary heat on heat pump

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Old 03-02-13, 11:47 AM
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Exclamation Help with auxiliary heat on heat pump

I am looking for guidance on auxiliary heat with heat pump. I have been searching the internet and found a few different ideas/solutions for preventing the auxiliary heat from turning on with the the thermostat. One was installing an outdoor temperature sensor on the unit to lockout the auxiliary heat, if I do install this where does it get installed? Inside or outside? Is there a thermostat with outdoor sensor that you would recommend?

The other option is getting a thermostat where I can adjust the lockout setting from the thermostat without the outdoor sensor. If this type of thermostat exists is there one that you can recommend?

I first noticed the issue when I installed a Honeywell RTH6350 programmable thermostat. I had it set back during the night and my bill for the next month was noticeably higher. There appear to be 3 heat cycle rate settings for this thermostat so maybe these need to be adjusted?

Function 5: Heating Cycle Rate, what should this be set to?

Function 6: Stage 2 Heat Cycle Rate (not sure if I have stage 2 unit or not), what should this be set to?

Function 8: Emergency Heat Cycle Rate (is this the same as auxiliary?), What should this be set to?

My current, non-programmable thermostat, is turning on auxiliary for normal heating operation (no setback) and temperature outside right now is 40 degrees.

Thanks for the help and guidance!

Adam
 
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Old 03-02-13, 12:06 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

Heat pump systems have slow recovery rates and are not suited to a night setback of more than a degree or two.

That being said..... the thermostat experts will stop by to help you out.
 
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Old 03-02-13, 12:14 PM
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Thanks PJmax I look forward to hear what they will say.
 
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Old 03-03-13, 05:02 AM
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I recommend a different thermostat. As Pete said, HP systems should not be used with setback temperature programs. They are better off left at the same temp all the time. For upgrade thermostat purposes we need to know more about your system to give you recommendations. Make and model number of all equipment. How many stat wires are used and what their current terminal designations are.

To add just a ODT to keep the aux heat off above a certain temp we need to know more about your system.... same things as mentioned before.
 

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Old 03-03-13, 09:32 AM
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My Heat Pump unit is a Bryant brand, model # FA4ANF018

The wires connected to my current, Carrier brand, thermostat is

Orange colored wire connected to O/W2
Pinkish colored wire connected to R
Yellow colored wire connected to Y/Y2
Green colored wire connected to G
Brown colored wire connected to C
White colored wire connected to W/W1

Thanks again for the help
 
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Old 03-03-13, 07:00 PM
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ALL equipment includes the outdoor unit and we need to know how it is wired in both the indoor and outdoor unit.
 
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Old 03-07-13, 02:37 PM
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Kevin,

I looked at both the outside and inside unit and I do not see where I can access the wiring to see what each wire goes to or at least access it where I feel comfortable to know what I am doing. The outside unit is a Copeland brand. Can you provide any recommendation or guidance without this info?

Thanks,
Adam
 
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Old 03-07-13, 02:51 PM
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I don't know if it would apply to your unit but I have a Janitrol [goodman] HP. My wife likes to turn up the thermostat anytime she thinks she's cold. My air handler has a breaker in it that supplies power to the heat strip. I flipped that breaker yrs ago so my heat strips never come on no matter how she fiddles with the thermostat. Without the heat strip the HP struggles to keep the house warm when we have extreme cold temps...... but I also have a wood stove
 
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Old 03-07-13, 04:00 PM
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We need all the info to give proper and correct guidance. If you are not comfortable then you need to pony up and call a pro.
 
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Old 03-09-13, 09:50 AM
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Wiring

I believe I have the information you were looking for:

The outside unit is as follows:

Serial no. 2100E27736
PROD 384CC018---301--
Model no 384CC018300

The wiring for the outside was a little tricky as there were two sides of the switch board that had wires that appeared to come from thermostat into outside unit. I have attached a picture if that helps.

One side of panel:

Orange wire to O
Red wire to R
White wire to W2
Yellow wire to Y
Black wire to C

Now on the other side (right next to first side):

Orange wire to O
Pink wire to R
Empty spot is T2
Yellow wire to Y
Darker Yellow to T1
Pink wire to DFT
Brown and Orange wire to C

Now the wiring for the inside unit, the best that I could tell:

3 Brown colored wires to C
Red wire to T
Gray wire to G
Another Red wire to R

I hope this is all the information you need.

Thanks again!
 
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Old 03-09-13, 12:49 PM
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Good thermostats for your system are:

Honeywell: VisionPro IAQ w/ wired ODT, TH8320 w/ wired ODT, Prestige w/ wireless odt, Prestige IAQ w/ wireless ODT

Ecobee: Smart Si (requires wireless internet access to know outdoor temp)

Any of the forementioned thermostats can be set up to lock out the aux heat at a specific outdoor temp setpoint.
 
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Old 03-09-13, 05:00 PM
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Is there one you would recommend over the other?

Do these thermostats with the ODT automatically come sold with the ODT or do you know if that is something additional you have to buy?

Are thermostats easy enough to install without a professional or would you recommend a professional install?
 
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Old 03-09-13, 05:19 PM
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They are easy as far as I'm concerned... however, if you are electrically or mechanically deficient then you want to hire the work. The easiest is probably the ecobee. The next easiest is the prestige w/ wireless odt. There are many options on the HW stats. Make sure you get one that does come with the odt.
 
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Old 03-09-13, 05:20 PM
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I've always been partial to Honeywell products. I just installed one of the 8320's.
Pretty easy to program.
I didn't install an outdoor sensor with this thermostat.

The ODT is a separately ordered part. Part # C-7089U.
One downfall to a wired outdoor sensor is that you need two conductors between the sensor and the thermostat.

A link if you want to look at the nitty gritty of that piece.
http://cache.honeywell-thermostat.co...ell-th8320.pdf
 
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Old 03-10-13, 08:50 AM
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The ODT is not always a separate part. For example the VP IAQ PN# YTH9421C1010 includes
Thermostat, Equipment Interface Module and outdoor temperature sensor
 
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Old 03-10-13, 05:19 PM
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This maybe a dumb question but it seems the two Prestige Honeywell brands or the Ecobee may have the easiest setup with the wireless ODT?


What are your opinions of the new Nest learning thermostat either generation 1 or 2? I've been reading some about it and you can set the aux. heat to "maximum savings" to limit the use of aux. heat and also alleges to save 30% on cooling cost.
 
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Old 03-10-13, 05:31 PM
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NEST is CRAP in my honest opinion. There are a LOT of problems with nest. Do research on nest problems before committing to that stat especially on HP systems. It seems as though NEST was not properly beta tested. I would stick with a brand that is time tested and proven.

Yes, the ecobee and prestige are both going to be the easier to setup and install.
 
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Old 03-12-13, 08:55 AM
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I was reading through some of the manuals, before I purchase, for the Prestige and the Ecobee and it wasn't clear to me how set the temperature to lockout the aux. heat for the Prestige?

How do you change this setting or should I just wait until I purchase it?

In my opinion the Prestige maybe more accurate since it uses direct outdoor temperature from the wireless sensor where the Ecobee would be using the forecast for the zip code, am I correct?

Thanks again for all the help!
 
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Old 03-12-13, 04:19 PM
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it is changed in the installer settings

INTERACTIVE DEMO

Change the setting of the backup heat lock out to whichever temp you wish to lock the aux heat out when the outdoor temp is above the setpoint.

The prestige may be more accurate but that would really depend on the location you mount the ODT (should be the north side of the building)
 
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Old 03-13-13, 05:36 AM
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One more question, for now (I think). What would be a good lockout temperature for the aux heat to be sure I don't "overwork" the heat pump?

I have two units, one for upstairs and downstairs so each unit doesn't really heat that much square footage. Probably average about 700 sq. ft. per unit.
 
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Old 03-13-13, 05:51 AM
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You will have to try different temps. Start low and then move it up. Find out when the HP can't keep up with setpoint on its own.
 
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Old 03-13-13, 06:36 AM
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Ok, sounds good. I did have another question. It hasn't really been 100% clear to me what type of unit I have although I think I know, but based on the wiring information I posted do I have a "dual stage heat pump w/ aux heat"? I just want to make sure when the time comes to setup new t-stat.

Thanks!
 
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Old 03-13-13, 06:47 AM
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You have a single stage heat pump with aux heat.
 
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Old 03-13-13, 03:54 PM
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Does the ecobee thermostat require any additional power source to be run to it besides what would have been there from old tstat?
 
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Old 03-13-13, 04:21 PM
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no. It uses R and C for power just like your old stat did.
 
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Old 03-25-13, 10:07 AM
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Does both the ecobee Smart Si and ecobee Smart (EB-STAT-02) connect with R and C for power with no additional need for power to be run?

Is there one that you would recommend over the other? I know that you had first said the Smart Si, but I've found a EB-STAT-02 for close to the same price and wondering if its worth the little more in price for upgrade in model and quality of thermostat.

Thanks!
 
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Old 03-25-13, 10:41 AM
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The Eb stat is touch screen... their touchscreen is HORRIBLE!
 
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Old 04-05-13, 05:33 PM
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I finally got around to buying a thermostat, the Ecobee Smart Si. It came in the mail today and I will probably work on it this weekend. I was reviewing the wiring diagram in their installation manual and had a couple questions on wiring placement.

My current thermostat is wired as shown below (I know I posted this already but figured it would be easier to re-post):

Orange to O/W2
Red to R
Yellow to Y/Y2
Green to G
Brown to C
White to W/W1

My question is about the orange wire and the white wire from my old thermostat. In the installation menu it says anything going to "O" should go to W O/B on new thermostat and anything from W2/W should go to W2/Aux on new thermostat.

Should the orange from the old thermostat technically be going to W2/Aux on the new one and White go to W O/B?

Here is the link from the installation menu so you can see the picture and diagram I am referring to. It is on page 14 where it talks about Single Stage Heat Pump with Aux Heat.

http://www.ecobee.com/wp-content/the...l3_general.pdf

Thanks!
 
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Old 04-05-13, 05:37 PM
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Orange to o
white to aux
.....................................................
 
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Old 04-14-13, 02:20 PM
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Finally got around to installing this. For equipment, what type of "furnace" do I have or do I not have one? I have "heat pump" set to 1 stage. Also what do I set "AC" to? Currently on not installed because if it was changed it would override what I put in the "heat pump" selection.

Thanks,
Adam
 
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Old 01-30-14, 01:17 PM
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I know this original post was about a year ago by now, but I had a follow-up question. I have been using the ecobee since April and I have noticed this winter that my HP is not quite keeping the house warm without using the auxiliary heat a lot. I have the lockout set to 20F and compressor lockout set to 10F.

The ecobee also has a comp to aux runtime, that I had disabled, until it got really cold. Now it is set to two hours. So HP will run for 2 hours then kick in aux if needed. Without this, my HP ran from 2am till 5pm one day. I fear that I am damaging my system with some of the settings I have.

Do you have any suggestions on this?

Thanks!
 
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