Heat won't turn off on Goodman ARUF-030-00A-1

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  #1  
Old 12-20-13, 10:14 AM
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Heat won't turn off on Goodman ARUF-030-00A-1

Hi, I read a thread on here before wit a similar problem as mine.

I have a Goodman Air Handler ARUF030-00A-1. A few weeks ago it suddenly would NOT turn off. We replaced the thermostat without success. I could only get it to stop running by turning off the breaker. I read another thread and followed it.

I disconnected the purple wire from the Relay, Electronic Blower Time Delay (circuit board) (it was referred to as a "sequencer" in the other thread but this is what I found under Goodman's part list - is it the same?) and the unit would turn off and on as normal. So I replaced the Relay, Electronic Blower Time Delay (circuit board) (Part # B1370735S). The replacement board was a new # but I was told it's the same although it had an "M2" connection in addition to the "M1" the old board had.

The new board worked beautifully for just over a week and then the same problem happened. Unit wouldn't stop running. So I disconnected the purple wire again and it works.

What could be the issue? A bad relay again? Something else? The handler is only about 8 years old and we haven't done anything that would cause wires to move. Also, is it bad to let the unit run with the purple wire disconnected?

Finally, one thing I'm confused about... after I put in the new relay the air seems to push out at a much greater rate. It's very loud and bangs when it turns off (the duct work bangs).

When I set up the programmable thermostat these time I changed the setting to indicated it as a 2-stage unit which some Goodman literature had said it could do if the Thermostat could do it. I had it set for the previous 6 years as a heat pump with emergency heat (which I don't think it has but it was the closest). We do have a heat pump outside but it only operates with the air conditioner.

Any help is appreciated.
 
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Old 12-20-13, 05:02 PM
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Replacing the EBTDR isn't going to help because the problem is a faulty sequencer.




It might look like this...




The sequencer is shown in the small squares on top of the diagram. You are only unplugging the fan wire from the sequencer when you unplug that purple wire.



Finally, one thing I'm confused about... after I put in the new relay the air seems to push out at a much greater rate. It's very loud and bangs when it turns off (the duct work bangs)

This diagram has black (high speed tap) on the EBTDR Com terminal. M1 and M2 are just a place to park the extra, unused fan speed wires. Are you confident that you did not have a different color wire on Com before you replaced the board?

We do have a heat pump outside but it only operates with the air conditioner.
Using the heat pump to heat your home is much more efficient. Why is it not used for heat?
 

Last edited by Houston204; 12-20-13 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 12-21-13, 06:28 AM
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Thanks. The second picture looks like what I have. I was confused because in the other thread you had the first picture which I didn't have in my unit. I'll replace the sequencer. One question... how come it worked for a week before failing again? Also, is it okay to run the unit with the purple wire disconnected?

I'm 99% certain I didn't have a different wire on Com since I did a "1-for-1" swap when I replace it (I took a wire off and attached it to the same terminal on the new unit before moving to the next wire). I leave 1% because I guess its possible. But I don't think so. I'll check the wiring diagram and verify my connections.

The heat pumps outside have never run during the winter. HOWEVER... when we moved in it was in the summer and I immediately replaced the thermostats with programmable ones. Could I have set them up incorrectly? In the setup you have to choose your system type and I'm pretty sure I picked "heat pump with Aux Heat" (it's been 7 years and I don't have the literature that explains the setup anymore).
 
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Old 12-21-13, 08:23 AM
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One question... how come it worked for a week before failing again?
I have tapped on them with the backside of my nut driver and unstuck them before. This is not a fix and the problem will always return.

Also, is it okay to run the unit with the purple wire disconnected?
No. The purple wire is energized along with your heat strips. If you only unplug the purple wire, your heat strips will glow red and cycle on limits. This is going to age them. You want to disable power to the sequencer not after it so that you turn off the heating elements as well as fan.

I'm 99% certain I didn't have a different wire on Com
Blue is medium speed and red is low. This is why I snap a few pics before replacing control boards. The diagram has 4 different heat strip options. 1, 2, 3 or 4 strips, which is probably 5, 10, 15 or 20KW. What size is your heat strip?


The heat pumps outside have never run during the winter. HOWEVER... when we moved in it was in the summer and I immediately replaced the thermostats with programmable ones. Could I have set them up incorrectly?
Almost every stat manual can be found on the internet today.
Post your make and model and I will assist you in configuration.
Is this a Honeywell touch screen?
Reconfiguring for heat pump operation can save you heating expenses.
 
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Old 12-21-13, 09:41 AM
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Thank you again! I've attached a couple pictures of my unit. One is of the label for the heating unit showing it's details. It is the HKR-10 and shows 9.5kw @ 240v. The other two are the EBTDR (after I reattached the purple wire) and one is of inside my unit. I'm not sure I have the sequencer you pictured.

Could we run the unit if I detach the purple wire at the power source first? I assume that would be the item marked #1 in the picture I attached. If not we will just continue to turn the unit on before going to bed, heat up the room then turn it off.

The thermostat is a Honeywell RTH7400 (actual label inside reads RTH7400D1008 or RTH7400D1068; it's hard to tell since its printed so tiny).
 
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Old 12-21-13, 10:23 AM
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I'm not sure I have the sequencer you pictured.
It looks the same to me, but I would read the part number on the side of your heat strip control relay.


Could we run the unit if I detach the purple wire at the power source first?
You can turn off power then unplug the harness to your heat strip if you want cooling and heat pump operation until you can get a new relay. (though defrost cycle would blow cold air for a few minutes in heat mode)


The thermostat is a Honeywell RTH7400
https://customer.honeywell.com/resou.../69-2487ES.pdf



How is it wired? If you have separate Aux and E terminals you want a jumper between them.



Set 170 to 7 and 190 to 0.
 

Last edited by Houston204; 12-21-13 at 10:40 AM.
  #7  
Old 12-21-13, 11:24 AM
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Ok. So if I understand correctly, disconnect the purple wire from the relay (the item marked #1 in my picture). Also, is the Sequencer the same thing your referring to - the "Heat strip control relay"? Item marked #1 in the picture or marked #2? I'll remove the unit and double check the part #.

As for the wiring, I have a white wire going to the "W2" connection which I assume is also the AUX since there on the same connector. I have no wires going to the "E" terminal nor the "L" as in the picture. As for the thermostat settings... I had 170 and 190 already set as you indicated.

One other thing... we have three zones in this house (it was an older couple who built it and added separate zone for a couple rooms for some reason). As I said, the units outside never kick in during the winter. HOWEVER, at the beginning of last winter the outside unit for the same system we are discussing started running constantly when we finally turned on the heat. I was told something must have been wired incorrectly when it was serviced by another company. Since it didn't seem to matter as the unit never ran before I simply turned the breaker off for that unit. In the summer I switched it on when we turned to A/C and it worked fine. Figured I didn't need to spend the $100 for someone to come out when it didn't seem to matter. I turned it off again this winter. Any thoughts?
 
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Old 12-21-13, 11:37 AM
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If you disconnect the purple wire and run your unit it will probably melt the heat strips. I do not recommend disconnecting the purple wire. This would be dangerous in my opinion. It may seem to fix your problem but it will most likely cause a much bigger problem. (LIKE A FIRE):NO NO NO:

I would turn off the breaker to your unit after your house gets warm and order that part rush delivery.

There is a white harness between the EBTDR and the heat strip that you can disconnect if you were to correct the problem to the heat pump and wanted to heat your home with the heat pump while your relay is on order.
If you post pictures of your thermostat wire connections at the stat, at the air handler and at the heat pump, I may be able to assist your in correcting the other techs mistake.


Be Safe.
 
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Old 12-22-13, 03:04 PM
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Goodman

I cannot tell from the info exactly what you have but I ran into a oddball issue yesterday with a goodman split system. Diagnosis can be tricky on these things. The condenser on the one yesterday that I was working on had a bad defrost board the relay on the board was stuck and sending 24 volts back thru the white wire from the condenser to the AHU. That turns the heat coils on when the unit is defrosting. The heat strips would not shut off and the heat coils and blower ran continuously. Houston is 100% correct on the purple wire that is a SAFETY feeding power to the blower motor off of your relay #1 in your pic (sequencer) so that if the heat coils are on the blower motor is forced on to keep from toasting the heat coils and possibly creating a fire hazard. How much capability do you have with a meter? do you know how to check for voltage safely? If so turn your tstat to the off position and check for 24 volts coming back from the condenser. I have also seen the sequencer (yours is actually a relay) stick and that could be the problem but easy to find out with a meter and some patience and knowledge if you are willing. Let me know. I did replace my relay with a std sequencer stack because it would only pull in one set (5KW) of coils out of two = 10 KW I cut the relay apart to see what was up and can post a pic if you like the contacts were burned to a crisp. Main problem was the outside board though. I am using a standard Honeywell 5220 tstat non programmable they are great little units and adapt to most unit configurations I have found that most people never really ever uses the program feature anyway. No way that I would be using expensive electric heat strips if a heat pump was available lets get this thing fixed. Please get the outside units model number and post it that way we will know what you have. The outside unit is what determines if you actually have a heat pump system or just a ac with electric furnace.
 
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Old 12-23-13, 06:02 AM
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Ok Houston204. I can't thank you enough for the help and guidance you've given me on this. I appreciate it. I'll let you know how it turns out. I found a local distributor with the part so should get it today.
 
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Old 12-23-13, 06:10 AM
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Thanks. I will get the outside units info shortly (it's pouring rain right now). I can handle a voltage meter (and have a decent one that will check all sorts of things - at least volts, ohms, amps, continuity). Which wires would I connect it to to check?
 
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Old 12-23-13, 12:33 PM
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One more question on this part... The part # you reference is B1370783. The part I pulled out of my unit is identical but with a part # of T92S7A22-24. Interestingly, the picture you provided before is my part and you can see the "T92S7A22" part # on the side. What is confusing me is this - If I look up part # B1370783 I find it online and locally for anywhere between $52 and $75. If I look up part # T92S7A22-24 I can get that online for about $12. So I just want to verify they are the same part / serve the same function? I found the B1370783 part one locally and they can have it by tomorrow morning versus ordering the T92S7A22-24 part which may be cheaper but will take at least 4 days to get here. Thanks again for your help
 
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Old 12-23-13, 02:20 PM
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Former Member has a valid point. We should prove that we do not have 24VAC between white to blue entering the air handler.

If we do not have a heat strip demand between C (blue) and W (white)...

Take a look at image 1 item 51.

http://www.alpinehomeair.com/related...%2010.2012.pdf
 
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Old 12-23-13, 05:20 PM
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We should prove that we do not have 24VAC between white to blue entering the air handler.


I flipped the breaker on and turned the thermostat off (unit continued to run). I then put a voltage meter on the brown & white wire connection (since they share a terminal) and the blue wire. I got no voltage indicated. So my understanding is that this should confirm that the sequencer (or relay) is stuck. Correct?

Please get the outside units model number and post it that way we will know what you have. The outside unit is what determines if you actually have a heat pump system or just a ac with electric furnace.


As for the unit outside, it is a Goodman Model #: CPLE30-1 I've attached a picture of the plate on the outside unit with its information.
 
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Old 12-23-13, 05:44 PM
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http://www.alpinehomeair.com/related...ec%20Sheet.pdf

Yep, you have a heat pump and you need that heat strip control relay.

I'd spend the extra thirty dollars to buy it faster if I needed heat for those 2 days.
 
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Old 12-23-13, 06:23 PM
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Thanks for confirming. That's what I'm doing. Part should be in tomorrow by 11 AM.

One more question (I know I've said that before), but you said I should add a jumper on my thermostat between AUX and "E", correct? I do have a white wire on the "W2" terminal which appears to be the same as the "AUX". Can I just add any wire as the jumper? I was thinking I'd just cut a strip off of a 14 gauge romex cable (either white or black) and keep insulation on it between the contacts.
 
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Old 12-23-13, 07:06 PM
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#14 wire is fairly large. Will probably not fit in the thermostat terminals. You'll need something close to #18 or #20
 
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Old 12-23-13, 07:40 PM
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I agree with PJ. 18 or 20 gauge.
 
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Old 12-24-13, 06:57 PM
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First off, Merry Christmas, happy holidays and all that good stuff. Thanks again for your help. Now...

I got the new relay (B1370783) today and installed it. The air handler now turns off and on with the thermostat as it should. Also, the blower seems to be back to normal, pushing the air at a decent rate with no banging at cut off (unlike pre-replacement when it was blowing very hard and would bang when it shut off). HOWEVER, while it is running as normal it is blowing cool air, slightly above room temp. For example it took almost an hour for the temperature to rise from 62 degrees to 64 degrees this afternoon. Before I replaced the relay it was blowing hard and warm. So... any ideas what could have happened?

I'm also attaching a picture of my Stats wiring. Should I place a jumper in the slot to the left of the AUX and E labels (which would be to the right of the W2 and Y2 labels)?

One final question... now that we know it is a heat pump is it still normal for the outside unit NOT to run with the heat?

Thanks again and I hope you have a great holiday.
 
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Old 12-24-13, 07:40 PM
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One other thing... we have three zones in this house (it was an older couple who built it and added separate zone for a couple rooms for some reason). As I said, the units outside never kick in during the winter.
Do you have 3 stats connected to a single heat pump?


HOWEVER, at the beginning of last winter the outside unit for the same system we are discussing started running constantly when we finally turned on the heat.
Did you have your current stat installed?

I was told something must have been wired incorrectly when it was serviced by another company. Since it didn't seem to matter as the unit never ran before I simply turned the breaker off for that unit. In the summer I switched it on when we turned to A/C and it worked fine. Figured I didn't need to spend the $100 for someone to come out when it didn't seem to matter. I turned it off again this winter. Any thoughts?
Post a couple of pictures of the thermostat wire connections at the air handler and at the heat pump and at the Zone Control Board if one is present.
 
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Old 12-24-13, 08:03 PM
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Do you have 3 stats connected to a single heat pump
No. Each zone has it's own thermostat that operates each furnace/air handler and it's own outside heat pump unit (so there are three units outside)
Did you have your current stat installed
Yes. We've had the same stats for about 7 years.
Post a couple of pictures of the thermostat wire connections at the air handler and at the heat pump and at the Zone Control Board if one is present
I'll try and get these pics tomorrow but it may not be until Thursday. I don't think we have a "zone control board"

Any thoughts on the cooler air now that I replaced the relay? I have to think it is related.

Thank you again. Have a great holiday tomorrow. This Santa is headed to do my duties then bed.
 
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Old 12-25-13, 08:28 AM
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Any thoughts on the cooler air now that I replaced the relay? I have to think it is related.
We have a picture of your relay before replacement. If you post a picture of the newly installed relay we can inspect for changes.

Overheating heat strips can break, or you could have an open fuse link. This can be checked by removing power, isolating the strip elements, and taking an ohm reading across the heat strip terminals.

On another note..
It seems odd that the heat pump will not run in heat mode.
We may need to get readings between Y and C and between O and C outside.
 
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Old 12-27-13, 04:39 PM
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I hope you had a good holiday. I waited to post for a couple days since things seemed to be running fine. I also turned back on the breaker for the outside unit that I had turned off before because it was running constantly. Whatever I did (whether it was replacing the relay or the EBDTR) it seems to have worked - at least so far. We will see.

HOWEVER... as I can't get by without some problem, I was checking the settings on the thermostats on the other units in this house. A second zone in this house has the exact same Goodman Air Handler. This air handler unit has one thing the other unit we worked on doesn't - it has a pair of white wires coming out and attached to what appears to be an emergency cutoff device hanging down and located at the floor level (this uit is upstairs in a closet). ALSO, I had a different thermostat on it (it was a "RiteTemp 8050C). Last night I checked it's batteries and settings and discovered a few loose wire connections and a couple wires with the insulation spit open. So today I went ahead and redid the wires (I cut them down so the insulation was in good condition below the connection) and tightened the connections up. I also verified all the labels prior to removing the wires to repair and added new, clean, readable labels. I also found the installation manual online, found my exact wire layout and confirmed it with what I had. What I discovered is that the install manual stated I should have had a jumper between the "Y" and "W" terminals which I didn't have. So I added one. When I turned the breaker back on there was a loud buzzing from the Air Handler (I had the thermostat set in the "Heat" mode instead of off) so I shut off the breaker again, scratched my head in befuddlement and went to recheck the wires shortly thereafter. I found the thermostat had become reset and was showing the day and time to be Sunday, 12:05AM. Odd. Since the only thing I had done was add the jumper I removed it and had my wife turn the breaker back on this time so I was at the thermostat. This time I had the thermostat set to "Off" when she flipped the breaker on. To my surprise the unit turned on and started blowing, even though I had it off at the thermostat. ALSO, the thermostat went blank with no display whatsoever. The backlight still works, but it is blank. At least there is no buzzing sound anymore.

Could adding the jumper - as per the instructions - have blown something on the thermostat? Or (god help me) on the Air handler? I'm looking at new thermostats now since I'm certain I'll need to replace that at least. Any thoughts?
 
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Old 12-27-13, 05:29 PM
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This air handler unit has one thing the other unit we worked on doesn't - it has a pair of white wires coming out and attached to what appears to be an emergency cutoff device hanging down and located at the floor level.
I am a big fan of float switches.




Last night I checked it's batteries and settings and discovered a few loose wire connections and a couple wires with the insulation spit open. So today I went ahead and redid the wires
Did you see the unit run after the wire repairs but before the jumper installation?
Do you have a wire on RH and a separate wire on RC ?

What I discovered is that the install manual stated I should have had a jumper between the "Y" and "W" terminals which I didn't have.
The Y to W jumper is required on that stat when you have a heat pump.
Is the outdoor unit for that system a heat pump?

I'm looking at new thermostats now since I'm certain I'll need to replace that at least. Any thoughts?
You probably only popped the purple 3 amp fuse on your EBTDR.
 
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Old 12-27-13, 06:11 PM
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Wow... you are quick. Thanks for the response. And thanks for the info on the float switch. Is it there in case of water buildup?

Did you see the unit run after the wire repairs but before the jumper installation?
No. I just repaired the wires and added the jumper. But I am 100% certain I have the wires where they should be.

Do you have a wire on RH and a separate wire on RC?
No. I have one wire marked "R". It is attached to "RC" with a jumper to "RH". The one thing I did change in addition to adding the jumper was attaching the "R" to the "RC" terminal. Before I had it attached to the "RH" terminal. But I can't see how that could be an issue since (1) they are attached via a jumper so does it really matter: and (2) per the installation manual I had it wrong for the last 7 years and did it correctly today.

The Y to W jumper is required on that stat when you have a heat pump.
Is the outdoor unit for that system a heat pump?
First off, Yes, it is a Heat Pump. Goodman Model # CPLE36-1. Interesting that I didn't have a jumper for the last 7 years. Maybe that's why I never thought the heating and Air was very efficient up there.

You probably only popped the purple 3 amp fuse on your EBTDR.
Would a popped fuse cause the thermostat to reset and then go blank? Should I hold off buying a new Stat? Is the fuse something I can easily replace (because I still have the old EBTDR from the other unit that I replaced when I likely didn't need to)?
 
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Old 12-27-13, 06:25 PM
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The float switch will turn off your cooling unit if the drain pan fills with water. It can prevent water damage.



A popped fuse will make a stat go blank if you are not using batteries or if it occurs when you need new batteries.
Remove power to the air handler before replacing the fuse.
I usually just pull the fuse from the board with my fingers but sometimes must use needle nose pliers.
 
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Old 12-27-13, 06:34 PM
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A popped fuse will make a stat go blank if you are not using batteries or if it occurs when you need new batteries
Unfortunately the Stat has batteries in it. And they are good (I tested them and they show full strength). When I repaired the wires the removed stat had a display and kept the correct time and settings. It reset and showed Sunday 12 AM after I turned the unit on at the breaker and the system buzzed. The display went blank when we turned the breaker back on after I removed my new jumper (basically I put the wires back to the way they were for the last 7 years).
 
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Old 12-30-13, 09:18 AM
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Hello. I hope you had a good weekend. I've been out of town so catching up. Here is the latest:

(1) I went ahead and installed a new thermostat on the upstairs unit since the other one appeared dead (since it didn't work with good batteries). Before removing the old one I double and triple checked my connections and they were all correct. So I installed the new thermostat as directed and even installed the jumper between "W2/Aux" and "E" terminals as directed by the install manual and your guidance. The thermostat displays as it should. My theory therefor is that the old thermostat had something wrong since when I added the Jumper to that unit the buzzer and death of the stat occurred. Is that reasonable?

(2) Since the "buzzing" and death of the old Stat the Air handler runs constantly even when turned off at the thermostat (the same issue as with the other unit). I therefore checked the voltage between the white/brown wires on the relay and the blue wire. It read "zero". So I did the test of removing the purple wire and then seeing if the thermostat would trigger the unit. It did. Therefore my assumption is it is another bad relay (same as the basement unit). Is that a safe assumption? I ask because you had mentioned something about the EBDTR blowing a fuse before.

If you concur that it is a bad relay then I will order another one and get it installed. If you think there still could be an issue with the EBDTR then I can replace the one with the one I pulled out of the lower unit (and is still good). Please advise.
 
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Old 12-30-13, 06:15 PM
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Yep, I agree that you need a new relay.
 
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Old 01-01-14, 12:19 PM
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HAPPY NEW YEAR! And thanks again for all your help. I picked up the new relay yesterday and all appears to be working fine. On both units.
 
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