Heat Pump thermostat wiring issue (no O/B wires) high LP usage

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Old 01-14-15, 12:25 PM
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Heat Pump thermostat wiring issue (no O/B wires) high LP usage

Hello, I just bought a house which has 2 heat pump units. One is a package unit outside (~1996 Goodman pgb0360-1 converted for use on LP - http://igate.northernplumbing.com/sp...oodman/pgb.pdf) The other is a much newer unit split between pump outside and handler/coil in attic also on LP. It has the exact same wiring and thermostat that I describe belowso I'll focus on the downstairs (old) Goodman unit as if one is misconfigured I think the other will be too.

As far as I can tell, this the older Goodman unit is propane all the way though the front page of the pdf says gas/electric. So, my first question is can anyone tell me if this thing is all gas with gas aux or gas with electric aux?

We’ve had cold weather here in Mississippi (between 0-20 degrees at night, 25-45 degrees in day) over the past month. I know that these units use a fair amount of gas, but this thing has sucked down almost a full 250 gallon propane tank over the past month. So, I started some investigating and think/wonder if I have found the problem. Specifically, I wonder if my wiring/thermostat is making the unit run its aux all the time. Here’s the deal and would love questions/advice as I may be inventing problems.

Thermostat Overview:
I looked at the thermostat (RiteTemp 6025 Thermostat - The RiteTemp Support Site - 6025 Technical Support Page) and noticed a few odd things. One, it was odd that the thing wasn’t wired as one of the heat pump settings, instead it was 4 wire heat/cool.

The wire config is:

Blue wire = Y
Green wire = G
Red wire = RC
White wire = W

Two, the jumpers don’t match how it suggests they should be. It only had the 4 jumper set which corresponds to Gas/Elec heat (Electric or H-Pump no fan).

Picture of wiring here:

After doing some online research I learned that the RightTemp stats stink (as I kinda knew from programming it) and so I tried to install a thermostat that I had from a previous house. It is a Honeywell RTH7600D - RTH7600D | 7-Day Programmable Thermostat I know it works form a previous heat pump install.

Well, I took out the RightTemp and hooked up the wires to the Honeywell as follows:

Blue wire = Y
Green wire = G
Red wire = RC (jumpered to R)
White wire = AUX (made a jumper to the E per manual)

The unit spooled and I made sure the temp was over 3 degrees to see if the Aux would kick on. The heat started, air came from the registers cold but after a few seconds the unit flashed aux and the air temp was going up. Then the aux kicked off and and the unit was still blowing but the air plummeted to about 45 degrees (it was 20 outside). The aux would kick back on but then at a certain point even though it was flashing Aux the air seemed to no longer be heated (dropping to the 50s). I tried running in AC mode and the temp of the air seemed more stable (60s) but never got past 62, which make me think the AC side of the system is working just fine.

I tried the following control settings with none of them giving satisfactory results:
  • 170 – 7, 190 (tried both 0 and 1 but with no “b or o” wire it was starting to show me where my problem may sit), 240 (5 & 9 as I’m still not sure if heat is gas (my belief) or electric (possible but not likely given propane usage).
  • 170 – 2, 190 (tried both 0 and 1 but with no “b or o” wire it was starting to show me where my problem may sit)

At this point, my wife was about to kill me for “blasting the house with frigid air” so I reversed the process and the RightTemp is still on the wall. So, that’s my story.

In summary, my questions are:
  1. Can you help me determine if the heat pump has aux (I think it does since it did flare for a bit) and if that is electric or gas
  2. Could my perception of overconsumption of LP gas be related to the wiring causing the aux to run constantly?
  3. I know it has been cold which could cause aux to run constantly anyway, but will this wiring allow the heat exchanger to work without aux when the temperature rises (e.g. above 40 degrees)? Or, will I need to change it to a better wiring set-up?
  4. Could I make that Honeywell thermostat work? My suspicion is that I could if I selected 170-1 (heat/cool) since I’ve now learned that the wiring I have seems to be for old school furnace/ac not heat pumps

I hope this provides you with enough info, but I’m happy to add more data as needed.

Finally. THANKS!
 

Last edited by notenoughwires; 01-14-15 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 01-14-15, 12:52 PM
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In the picture the O/B wire is missing. Does the unit cool in the summer? With no O/B wire the unit will be in heat mode ( except Rheem units).
 
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Old 01-14-15, 12:57 PM
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Yes, the unit cools in the summer. In my internet searches to explore this problem I did read somewhere (can't find it now) that back then Goodman used Rheem built exchangers so maybe that is a relevant reason for why cooling works?
 
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Old 01-14-15, 01:02 PM
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According to the model number it is not a Heat Pump. So no O/B wire is necessary.
 
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Old 01-14-15, 01:16 PM
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Here is a link to the installation manual for your PGB unit:

http://johnstonesupply9.com/TechDocs...0RS6300004.pdf

As pointed out by skaggsje the PGB is not a heat pump. The linked manual can provide a lot of good information for that unit. As far as your other unit, what is the model number?
 
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Old 01-14-15, 01:22 PM
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Well...that's news to this guy The house was listed with it being a heat pump and that is so common around here and the house was listed with a heat pump that i just went along with it...sorry to waste y'all's time. I guess I can hook that honeywell up as a standard furnace then.
 
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Old 01-14-15, 01:34 PM
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A heat pump would have an "H" as the second designator in the model number such as PHK as shown on page 6 in the linked manual. The cover page for the manual you linked shows it is a self-contained gas/electric packaged air conditioner and not a heat pump. Is your other unit a heat pump?

Here is a link to a unit specific installation guide:

http://igate.northernplumbing.com/ma...oodman/pgb.pdf

The wiring diagram on page 12 shows it may have 2-stage cooling. You will want to verify the wiring inside the unit to determine if you need to connect a wire to the Y2 terminal on your thermostat.
 

Last edited by firedawgsatx; 01-14-15 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 01-14-15, 02:52 PM
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I shall check the other unit's details when I get home and report back. Thanks, All.
 
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Old 01-14-15, 03:38 PM
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Are you wanting to use the Honeywell RTH7600D with the Goodman PGB0360-1 or with the other unit?
 
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Old 01-14-15, 05:57 PM
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Just curious,did you have a home inspection ?
Geo
 
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Old 01-14-15, 08:10 PM
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Ok so the other unit is not a heat pump but an American Standard AC and a Goodman furnace so I don't think we have an issue with that system. I was thinking about transitioning the Goodman system to the Honeywell thermostat as it looks better, is easier to program and gets rid of all the jumpers.

While on the topic the RiteTemp manual shows that for the 4 Wire Heat/Cool configuration that my systems seem to use there should be a Jumper on 7 (Single Power(R) HVAC POWER). However, the previous homeowner only has a jumper on 4 (Electric or H-Pump).

It seems to me that I should have a jumper on 3 (Gas or Oil) and then also on Jumper 7 for the Power. Does that sound right? In other words, should I move the Gas/Elect heat jumper and add another to the HVAC power option as the manual seems to suggest since a) my wire config matches the manual and b) both systems (i know this one for certain now:-) use gas for heat.

My original intention for moving to the Honeywell (when i incorrectly thought that I had a heat pump) was that it more clearly shows when Aux is in use and i've read some reasonably good things about its intelligent recovery functions.

Based on what I've learned, my guess is that I had it set correctly when I did the install last night but I didn't set it to the right option. So, I'll try to do that again but use 170-1 (heat/cool with AC). If anyone thinks that is not right then I'd love to be set straight.
 
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Old 01-14-15, 08:15 PM
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Also, we did have an inspection but there wasn't much said other than "older unit, have it inspected to check components" with regard to the Goodman package unit. I've had a technician out and they looked at the heat exchanger, etc and said it seems OK
 
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Old 01-14-15, 09:22 PM
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Since neither of your units is a heat pump the Aux terminal will not be used on either of the thermostats. Wiring for both systems is very straightforward.

It seems to me that I should have a jumper on 3 (Gas or Oil) and then also on Jumper 7 for the Power.
Yes, that is correct. Jumpers on 3 and 7. You will have wires going to RH, G, Y and W.

On the Honeywell the only jumper you will have is between the RC and R. You will have wires going to the RC, Y, G and W terminals.
0170-1
0180-0
0240-3 or 5 depending on whether it is an 80 or 90 percent efficiency. I recommend 3.
Other settings, as desired.

Make sure power is turned off to the furnaces before any wiring changes are done.
 
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Old 01-14-15, 09:37 PM
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Thank you Firedawgsatx! (btw, i lived in ATX for a couple of years...great place...miss my Sundays at Ginny's Little Longhorn Saloon with Dale Watson) This is a great community.
 
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