Honeywell 9000 with Goettl Heat Pump no C-wire

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Old 11-28-15, 08:13 PM
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Question Honeywell 9000 with Goettl Heat Pump no C-wire

I'm looking for some guidance installing a new t-stat in my home without a C wire. I've looked into the Venstar add-a-wire and the Honeywell WireSaver but neither of them make sense for my application.

Here's what I have in my system currently:

At the HVAC:



C - not connected on either side of terminal
Y - yellow t-stat wire, connected to HVAC system
G - green t-stat wire, connected to HVAC system
R - red t-stat wire, connected to HVAC system
W - white t-stat wire, connected to HVAC system
B - blue t-stat wire, connected to HVAC system

The thermostat:



Y1 - yellow t-stat wire
G - green t-stat wire
Rc - red t-stat wire
Y/O - white t-stat wire
W/B - blue t-stat wire
Rh - jumper from Rc

New thermostat:

I've tried a few different combinations but none have been successful. Here's a pic of the unit though...


(this is a stock photo so do not pay attention to t-stat wire colors, use above reference for colors of my wire.)


From the wiring directions I don't have a C wire and I need one but I tried to put the G wire into the C and although the thermostat powered on it was not able to turn on the fan and displayed the message "waiting for equipment"

I tried...

C - blue t-stat wire
W-O/B - white t-state wire
Y - yellow t-stat wire
G - green t-stat wire
Rc - red t-stat wire
...HVAC system did not power on

C - green t-stat wire
W-O/B - blue t-stat wire
Y - white t-stat wire
Y2 - yellow t-tsat wire
Rc - red t-stat wire
...HVAC system did not power on

I assume I need 6 wires to make this work, using:
C - new wire I don't have
W-O/B - blue t-stat wire
G - green t-stat wire
Y - white t-stat wire
Y2 - yellow t-tsat wire
Rc - red t-stat wire

So the question is, how do I get a C wire? My HVAC unit has the spot for one but it's not connected into the system so adding a t-stat wire to the C terminal won't help any. My t-stat wire is actually a 6 wire cable so there is an extra wire I can use without having to pull a new t-stat wire through, but that's only if I can make my HVAC unit provide the power to that cable.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
 
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Old 11-28-15, 08:22 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

That first picture is outside at the condensor unit. The thermostat wire you are looking for is inside at the air handler.

At that location you'll find two brown multiconductor cables..... one from the condensor and one from the thermostat.
 
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Old 11-28-15, 08:34 PM
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Thanks PJ, please excuse my ignorance on finding the correct wires, the cable on the condenser matched what was at the t-stat so I assumed it was the same wire.. I'll check out the air handler tomorrow morning and see what I can find. Depending on what I find tomorrow I'll report back. Thanks!
 
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Old 11-28-15, 09:30 PM
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I see that your heat pump has a G terminal. Does the heat pump have duct work connected to it like this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q2Yz-T8bts
 
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Old 11-28-15, 10:25 PM
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Ahhhhh.... so this may be an old heat pump packaged unit.
Makes sense as that's where that obscure company was located.
 
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Old 11-28-15, 11:28 PM
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The old thermostat does not support a heat pump with Aux heat.

White is at Y/O at the stat. That is the reversing valve terminal when configured for heat pump operation.

It appears that white may be at W at the heat pump. It is connected to O at the stat. The heat strips would be energized the entire time that the heat pump is in cool mode?

Blue is at W/B at the stat. This is reversing valve to heat (B).
The reversing valve may be a Rheem/Ruud style control?
 
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Old 11-29-15, 12:33 PM
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Some Updates

Thanks everyone for helping out.

So a couple of updates... I went up into my attic to look for the air exchanger and found nothing. The AC Unit is on the roof and I followed the multiconductor cable from the roof down and it looks like it drops into a wall and down to the t-stat, I couldn't find anything. The ceiling is sunken a little where the main air intake so it's possible it's in there somewhere but like I said the wire appeared to be going into a wall, not to another unit.

I was looking again at my t-stat and it's in STD mode and not HP, so I'm wondering if I'm misinformed. There's no information on the compressor (previous owner painted over the model information) but the presence of a B wire made me think heat pump, the t-stat is apparently in a conventional mode though. I wouldn't put it past the previous owner to have mis-wired everything, I've never had independent control of my fan and he was kinda a drunk.

Anyway here's another couple of pictures of the outside/inside of the roof unit, hopefully this helps.

Any suggestions welcome, I can try something and report back!

Thanks!





 
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Old 11-29-15, 01:33 PM
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Do you have a reversing valve near the compressor ?

A heat pump will have a reversing valve...



It looks like you have a reciprocating compressor.

This compressor had better days...

 
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Old 11-29-15, 01:41 PM
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This compressor had better days...
When was that.... before they invented electricity.
 
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Old 11-29-15, 02:04 PM
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Ladies and Gentlemen...

We have a reversing valve!


Also included are a couple pictures of my compressor, I'm glad to see it's not the worst one out there!




Does this help us get to our next steps?

Thanks again!
 
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Old 11-29-15, 07:14 PM
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What letter is blue outside?
 
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Old 11-29-15, 07:59 PM
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blue = B outside

Here's another pic with all the letters on the terminals...
 
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Old 11-29-15, 10:09 PM
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I would pick up the Honeywell Wire Saver and install it in the heat pump.

You will also need a little bit of 18 gauge wire to run between the wire saver and the heat pump terminals.

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The label that reads Air Handler is actually Heat Pump in your application.
 
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Old 11-30-15, 05:10 AM
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You have a B terminal where the diagram has "air handler" O. Connect wire saver blue to Heat Pump B.
 
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Old 11-30-15, 07:31 AM
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I looked at the Wire Saver before and the reason I came to this forum was because although I have a C terminal at my heat pump it's not connected to the system. Therefore connecting a wire saver up to that terminal wouldn't work, or at least I wouldn't think so.



My multiconducter cable actually HAS 6 wires in it (there's a black wire that's been snipped on both ends, but it's in there) so in a perfect world I'd just hook up the 6th wire to the C terminal and then do the same down at my t-stat... but that C wire wouldn't do anything since it's not hooked up into the electronics of the heat pump.
 
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Old 11-30-15, 07:38 AM
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That is good news.

Post some pictures of the controls so we can find common side of the transformer.

A picture of the wiring diagram would also be of assistance.
 
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Old 11-30-15, 08:23 AM
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I'll work on a better picture (or set of pictures) once I get home from work, for now here's a much higher resolution picture of the "guts" of the power module.

External link for full resolution: http://gflett.net/hvac-large-circuit.jpg

Finding a wiring diagram is going to be next to impossible unless there's another way to get the model number from the unit, all the model information is painted over and I've tried using paint thinner and scraping to reveal the information to no avail.

I have a multimeter at home so I can test voltages/currents where needed. Like I said I'll upload a better picture of the guts when I get home.

Thanks for sticking with me!
 
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Old 11-30-15, 08:53 AM
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In the following picture is the transformer. I circled the 24v wires.... blue and yellow. It looks like yellow is common and the blue may go directly to the R terminal on the thermostat connection block.

Try to confirm the blue goes to the R terminal.

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Old 11-30-15, 04:08 PM
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Confirmed, blue wire from transformer goes to R terminal.
Yellow wire from transformer goes to a module under the transformer.
Black and white wires on bottom of transformer go to main power input units.

Better angle picture of circuitry:
 
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Old 11-30-15, 04:25 PM
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Yup.... the yellow is common and is feeding the coil of a relay.
 
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Old 11-30-15, 05:54 PM
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So can I splice into the yellow wire and feed it up to the C terminal?. I bought 1 foot of 10 gauge wire ($0.49!) and can cut the yellow wire and cap it with the new wire to form the connection. I'm also gonna run a new t-stat wire because there's some sketchy segments of it due to its age.

For final wiring how do you think it will look?

We will have:

C - common
Y - ?
G - fan relay
R - heat/cool power
W - ?
B - ?

Here are the instructions from the t-stat, there's a 5 wire example and a 7 wire example, nothing for 6 though, is there any way to verify the functions of each wire or do we have to guess?

Here's the instructions and one way I could wire it, what do you think?


 
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Old 12-01-15, 05:51 AM
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Looks good.

I would set the O/B terminal to be B which will energize the reversing valve for heating.
 
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Old 12-01-15, 07:13 AM
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Great!!

Just confirming one last thing to make sure I don't blow anything up or burn anything down, splicing into the yellow common wire and connecting it to the C terminal is kosher, correct? (obviously turning the power off first)

Thank you both Pete and Houston204 for your amazing help getting me on the right track, I really appreciate it.

virtual beers for everyone!
 
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Old 12-01-15, 01:36 PM
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I would try to add common using 2 squeeze on spade connectors and some wire if possible.
 
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Old 12-02-15, 10:49 AM
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Just closing out this topic - C wire is connected to the common from the transformer, new t-stat wire ran and C wire works great to power my new t-stat.

The new t-stat powers up but I can't get the system to run with the wiring I suggested, but the old t-stat is working fine - even though it's not in any sort of valid wiring configuration according to the Hunter manual. I'm going to call Honeywell and talk to them about some possible wiring configs and maybe get a HVAC tech out to my house to confirm what is single state and what is dual.

In any case the C wire works great so thanks for all your help!

Greg
 
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Old 12-02-15, 05:05 PM
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You'll be back. Honeywell rarely supports any "uncommon" wiring systems.
 
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Old 12-02-15, 05:26 PM
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LOL!

I was able to get on the line with a friend of a friend who is an HVAC tech experienced with Goettl. He thinks there may be a relay blown along the path of the G terminal in the system because touching the R wire to the G wire did not result in the blower turning on. He had me connect Y and W to Y which made it so the blower would turn on with the heater - it worked! As a plus the cooling works too with the same configuration.

I'll get my relay checked at some point but for now both systems are working! Like my mother always said... never look a gift horse in the mouth!
 
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Old 12-02-15, 06:35 PM
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See... my crystal ball said you'd be back.

I doubt there is more than 1 blower relay in that unit.
Heating and cooling can't work with the same exact configuration. There is a reversing valve to be considered here.

Hunter stat designation --> terminal--> wire color
heat pump compressor ----> Y1 --------> yellow
blower -----------------------> G ---------> green
24vac ------------------------>Rc/Rh -----> red
A/C compressor ------------>Y/O -------> white
heating --------------------->W/B -------> blue

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I'm a little confused about your wiring. You may need your buddy to come check it out. Apparently.... you don't have any electric reheat coils either.
 
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