New antenna for digital conversion?


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Old 07-04-08, 11:39 AM
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New antenna for digital conversion?

I'm preparing for the conversion from analog to digital TV next February. I bought 2 conversion boxes for "secondary" TVs and have a 2-year-old TV that already has digital capability. However, I live in a rural area among trees (blue/purple area on the antenna selection chart) and receive no digital channels at all at this point, despite the fact that some networks do have digital broadcasts. I currently receive analog NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, and FOX--I have no need for more. A clerk at Radio Shack told me that my 20-year-old rooftop antenna should be replaced. I'm not clear on what to get, although Radio Shack has one rooftop antenna and said they'd find an installer (which I haven't been able to do, so far). If their antenna doesn't work they'd take it back, but I assume I'd still be out the installation and removal costs and I'd still have the same problem. Any suggestions on how to deal with this situation will be greatly appreciated.
 
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Old 07-04-08, 02:02 PM
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I suspect you may in fact have to trial & error it. Is the antenna or roof design such that you can't self-install either on the roof or as a pole-mount?

Can you give us your general location; might help in analyzing the situation.
 
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Old 07-05-08, 04:15 AM
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I also live in a rural wooded area although I am located on top of a hill. I have 2 convertor boxes, 1 hooked up to a 17yr old exterior attenna and the other to rabbit ears - both pic up the digital stations well although the box signal only registers between 10 and 40 wih occasional spikes over 50. I recieve a dozen or so stations [2-3 more than analog] When the signal is less than 20, I have occasional freezing of the picture.

Don't know if this is of any help but this is my limitted experience with the conversion box.
 
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Old 07-05-08, 05:24 AM
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To an antenna there is no difference between analog and digital signals. They both use the same carrier frequencies. Unless you're watching very snowy analog pictures, you should be able to receive digital signals.

Installing the new antenna on the original mast (pole) is a simple matter of removing two nuts on a u-clamp and putting the new one in its place.

While you're at it you may also want to change the cable if it's flat ribbon or RG59. RG6 will give you more signal, especially at the higher frequencies.
 

Last edited by Rick Johnston; 07-05-08 at 05:50 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 07-05-08, 10:58 AM
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New antenna for digital conversion?

Trial and error was suggested by Radio Shack, too. A converter installed on an analog only TV and setting the newer TV to digital both failed to pull in any digital channels. I tried to install a signal amplifier to the antenna mast but, due to the slope of the roof, the connection was too high for me to reach. I tried to find an installer, but Radio Shack said I'd have to have a signal in the first place for an amplifier to work anyway. (They're the ones who had suggested the amplifier.)

I think the self-install option may be a bit over my head (no pun intended).

I live in central New York State about 15 miles southwest of Syracuse, but not on top of a hill.

With the rooftop antenna, analog pictures for the channels I mentioned are excellent except for FOX. It varies from pretty good to unwatchable with snow and static fading in and out. Having said that, a small analog TV on my kitchen counter is not connected to the rooftop antenna and gets FOX very well with rabbit ears! Makes no sense to me.

Is it possible that the age of the rooftop antenna could be a factor with the 2 TVs hooked up to it? Still doesn't explain the better small TV reception.

The rooftop antenna cable is coax.

I really appreciate all your suggestions.
 
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Old 07-05-08, 05:41 PM
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Antennas are made to recieve different frequency ranges.Most digital signals are in the UHF frequency.I found a DB4 antenna works great for me.My brother lives 60 miles away and gets same channels using a DB8 antena.Got them on EBAY very reasonable.They were very easy to put up.Just clamped them on a pole while it was laying on the ground.hooked up my rg6 cable and taped it to the pole.Then stood the pole up and secured it to the house.
 
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Old 07-06-08, 05:59 AM
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That's my oversight, Craftsman: I assumed the TV antenna was a VHF/UHF/FM, but since it's 20 years old it may be only VHF.

The digital stations in Syracuse are all in the UHF band, so you'll need an antenna that picks up UHF. 15 miles shouldn't be a problem for all but the low-power stations, which don't fall under the digital mandate.

For the record, TV stations will have the option of moving their digital signals to their original analog VHF frequencies after February of next year, so it's a good idea to get a VHF/UHF/FM antenna.
 
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Old 07-06-08, 11:18 AM
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New antenna for digital conversion?

This might sound stupid, but is there a way I can determine for sure if the antenna I have is just VHF? I'm also not certain which type of coax was used. I had the guy who installed the antenna and cable check it out last year before the digital conversion was announced. I had hoped he could help me receive FOX (UHF) better, although PBS is also UHF and is sharp with the antenna, not as sharp without it. NBC, CBS, and ABC are total snow without it. He went up on the roof and fiddled with the antenna while I shouted my observations to him. He said the antenna is a very good one and is in excellent condition, but he couldn't figure out why one of the analog TVs (at a lower level in the house) got better reception than my newer digital/analog TV at a higher level. The two of them are on a splitter and he tried hooking each TV directly to the antenna separately and then one or both through the splitter. He couldn't make sense of it. That's why I've been reluctant to call him about the digital situation.

Still not sure about removing the old antenna and installing the new one. I'm not a happy camper on the roof and, if it doesn't work, I'll have nothing.
 
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Old 07-07-08, 12:58 PM
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for what its worth here is my experience

replaced our roof antenna a few mths ago with one from our other house that was bigger and reception was much better with the analog system

2 weeks ago put the digital box in and every channel crystal clear its amazing, signal strength it 30-60
 
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Old 07-07-08, 02:31 PM
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Look at the antenna. If it has a number of elements (crossbars) that are long on one end and work their way down to a group of short elements on the other end, the antenna is called a yagi and probably picks up UHF. If it has a sideways vee looking group of elements on one end, they are called a corner reflector and are designed for UHF.

There should be a code printed every foot or so on your coax which will tell you the type.

My final thought is to check the aiming of the antenna. High wind can cause them to move a bit on the mast and it may not be optimally aligned.
 
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Old 07-08-08, 03:50 AM
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Another thing to look at is the cable between the antenna and the first TV. If it's damaged or punctured (with a staple) it can be partially shorted, or it may have corroded due to moisture entering the outer jacket. Corroded, loose, and poorly fastened connectors can also cause a weak signal.
 
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Old 07-09-08, 11:00 AM
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Unhappy New antenna for digital conversion?

Is it possible I need to get a satellite dish? It could be interesting hooking it up on(above) my roof or somehow wiring it through the woods. Definitely not a do-it-yourself job for me. Cable isn't available where I live.

You've all been terrific with your suggestions. So far, nothing has solved my problem, but I appreciate the efforts. Let's hear it for the wonderful conversion.
 
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Old 07-09-08, 11:16 AM
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sense you live near the woods you could be just about out of range of the tv singnals. maybe a antenna amplifire would work. if there is such a thing.
 
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Old 07-09-08, 12:27 PM
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I have a DIRECTV satelite dish mounted on the S.W. gable of my house and it gets great reception. Of course there is the added expense of the subcription every month and that doesn't include local channels. Some areas can get local channels for a nominal charge but you have to have a 2nd dish.
 
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Old 07-09-08, 12:37 PM
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You DO NOT need a new antenna. It's nothing but marketing.
Read this:
http://www.dennysantennaservice.com/1373792.html

Look at the antenna on this page:
http://www.starkelectronic.com/ca7084.gif
The elements on the left (back of antenna) are for VHF and those on the right (front of antenna) are for UHF.
 
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Old 07-09-08, 12:39 PM
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Satellites are great, I've had one for the past twelve years. The problem is that they usually don't send the local signals up to the satellite and back down, but provide an antenna that picks the signal off the air and through their box. If you are in a weak area, they may do no better than you. I hooked up my own Dish because there were virtually no installers 12 years ago. Not too tricky. If you have an open view to the south, you could even put the dish on a short post in the yard - no roof climbing.

You could look into an amplifier as Flirty 1 suggests.

With any antenna, size and height matter. Usually the bigger the antenna the more gain it has and the higher it is helps to put it more in "line of sight" with the transmitting station.
 
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Old 07-09-08, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by goldstar
Satellites are great, I've had one for the past twelve years. The problem is that they usually don't send the local signals up to the satellite and back down, but provide an antenna that picks the signal off the air and through their box. If you are in a weak area, they may do no better than you. I hooked up my own Dish because there were virtually no installers 12 years ago. Not too tricky. If you have an open view to the south, you could even put the dish on a short post in the yard - no roof climbing.

You could look into an amplifier as Flirty 1 suggests.

With any antenna, size and height matter. Usually the bigger the antenna the more gain it has and the higher it is helps to put it more in "line of sight" with the transmitting station.
if the bigger the antenna the how about this for a antenna a different kind of yagi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M...top.thumb2.jpg
 
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Old 07-09-08, 01:32 PM
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Amateur radio antennas are not meant for television.
 
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Old 07-09-08, 03:28 PM
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Keep in mind, too, that the bigger antennas are directional, which means you'll need a rotor to zero in on the direction from which the signals originate.

Since you don't want to climb up on the roof, you'll have to find someone who's willing to work with you to find the cause of your problem. I've found that small, independent installers are more willing to spend the time to develop a customer relationship than the large companies that do a huge volume.
 
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Old 07-09-08, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by oneofamill
Amateur radio antennas are not meant for television.
can't they be modified slightly
 
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Old 07-09-08, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by flirty1
can't they be modified slightly
No. Wavelenghts are all wrong.
 
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Old 07-10-08, 08:35 AM
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Flirty1, as oneofamill said, ham antennas will not work for this application. Ham 6 meter is at the old channel one frequency - that's why there is no channel one on your tv. Some ham UHF bands are close to tv UHF but not close enough.

I live near the old Voice of America transmitter site in southwestern Ohio. They had real monster antennas for broadcasting into Europe. Low frequency directionals where the elements were suspended between towers or electric poles across acres of ground. They were directional beams and there were different antennas for each direction and frequency - a real antenna farm.
 
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Old 07-10-08, 01:48 PM
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Go to www.craigslist.com and do a search for antenna in your area. People are giving the things away for free.
 
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Old 07-12-08, 03:52 PM
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#15 - Thank you so much for your helpful info. I checked out Denny's Antenna and sent a message explaining my situation. He really sounds like someone who can help. I hope he responds.

The picture of the antenna you provided looks just like mine.
 
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Old 07-12-08, 07:03 PM
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If your antenna works ok now, then don't worry about it. It will be just fine.
 
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Old 07-15-08, 06:59 AM
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New antenna for digital conversion?

oneofamil--I still have the original problem. I don't receive any digital signals.
 
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Old 07-15-08, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Fritzy
oneofamil--I still have the original problem. I don't receive any digital signals.
That means the TV stations you receive aren't transmitting in digital yet. They will be by Feb. 2009. It has nothing to do with your antenna.
 
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Old 07-15-08, 07:52 PM
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Most major TV stations in the USA are transmitting both digital and analog signals.

Fritzy, you won't be giving away any personal information if you tell us where you live. A zip code is fine if you're in the USA.
 
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Old 07-16-08, 04:33 AM
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15 miles S.W. of Syracuse N.Y.

Fritzy; How have you determined that you are not receiving digital signals?
 
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Old 07-16-08, 01:16 PM
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New antenna for digital conversion?

I live in central New York State in a rural area (in woods) about 15 miles southwest of Syracuse. The zip code is 13108. I've found out that I have an excellent VHF/UHF antenna (see the link provided by oneofamill on July 9 via the link to www.starkelectronic.com to see exactly what it looks like). Many of the local channels broadcast in digital already (I checked), but my newer TV (2-year-old SONY), which has digital capability, doesn't pick up any of those channels. I also bought a couple of converters for an analog TV which I've tried when it's on a splitter with the SONY or connected to the rooftop antenna on it's own, but I can't get digital that way either. I called a TV repair place and they said the converters won't work until the conversion. I've read where some people are amazed at the improvement to their reception with a converter now. This is so frustrating.
 

Last edited by Fritzy; 07-16-08 at 01:17 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old 07-17-08, 03:37 AM
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I don't have a digital tv but do have 2 of the convertor boxes. They work great unless the reception is marginal. Some of the analog stations have a different channel number when digital. Our channel 9 is 19.3 on digital and channel 36 is 19.2, but the majority of stations have their original number and I do get 2 or more stations that weren't available on analog.

Have you verified that your local stations are broadcasting in digital?
 
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Old 07-17-08, 12:39 PM
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New antenna for digital conversion?

Yes, I've verified that several channels have been broadcasting in digital for years. I think my reception may very well be marginal in some cases. NBC, CBS, ABC, and PBS are excellent with the rooftop antenna. FOX varies from pretty good to unwatchable and, as I understand it, has a weaker signal than the others. This is evident on the SONY (which has digital capability and can scan for any digital signals it receives, which is none) and the (larger) analog TV. A small, countertop analog gets FOX consistently well with rabbit ears. A converter installed on that one didn't bring in digital, though, and it didn't on the (larger) analog set either.
 
 

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