Shooting Video Clips: 30 fps advantage over 60 fps?

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Old 04-21-11, 06:58 PM
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Shooting Video Clips: 30 fps advantage over 60 fps?

From what I've read, 60 frame per second is always better, especially when the camcorder has 1080 capabilities, 'cause fast-moving elements would look smoother when moving on the screen of an HD TV.

The question is, what's the downside?.... From the little testing that I did, a 60 fps clip would make a larger file and take more space on the SD card, than a 30 fps clip. I shot 2 short clips, first is 1:34 long at 60 fps, the second is 1:37 long at 30 fps. The first one is 192 MB file size, the second is 149 MB.... So the slightly shorter first clip is almost 29% larger in file size than the second one...

But surprisingly I can't find any verification to this in any discussion about 30 fps vs. 60 fps...

Anybody here having an educated opinion?

Thanks.
 
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Old 04-21-11, 08:39 PM
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If your talking digital video then its really all compressed. You cant get the quality off a film video camera. Film video is not compressed and is at 25fps, and when recorded to computer in AVI you loose nothing.

All digital video cameras, with the exception of miniDV, do not work like movie film where each frame is taken in sequence. instead they use GOF (group of frames) architecture. they take 1 frame and then the next 7 in sequence are not recorded. the missing frames are interpolated on playback. the interpolation process does not work well with fast moving sports activities. this would be the case for both 30 and 60 fps. This is why most sports videographers use miniDV cameras and avoid this problem. HDV works better than most other HD video in that it uses MPEG2 encoding which does not have a fixed GOF of 8 like MPEG4 or AVCHD. Its GOF can be reduced when there is quick action.

From answers.com. (This site says it better then I could have)


I make home movies and copy them to DVD. I reserched all cameras when my Sony DV recorder broke. Its funny you cant find actual video camera anymore. There are only two companys that make them. I ended up with the cannon.

If you do a search and read about compressed digital vs mini digital video (with tape) you will see what I am talking about.

Thats why when I download a 1 hour video to my computer, it taks 1 hour.(its not compressed) Any other format is compressed so a 1 hour video may take 10 minutes to download. Get it? less quality.

Mike NJ

Mike NJ
 
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Old 04-21-11, 09:34 PM
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OK, but I have this camcorder which I like (a Sanyo VPC-GH4, a true HD and when watching the clip on our HDTV the quality is just stunning, especially considering the price, $140....), and I still need to decide if to leave it at 30 fpm or go to 60.... We're heading for a 2-week trip in Europe and I don't want to run out of SD cards, shooting at 60 and "wasting" almost 30% space (or am I wrong?), if I don't have to....
 
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Old 04-22-11, 05:43 AM
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The downside of 60fps is that some editing software can't handle it. Do some tests to make sure you can import and edit the video. The software that comes with the camera is limited, but it will handle 60fps.

60fps is better for fast-action scenes, but as you've seen the trade-off is a larger file size.

Lowrosa, the explanation applies to MPEG2, but not the H.264 MP4 standard that these types of cameras use. H.264 is a scalable format is much more versatile than MPEG2. Its recording scheme is so complex that it doesn't really fit comfortably within a frames-per-second spec. That's why incredible image quality can be seen on a BluRay, while the same format is used for highly compressed Youtube videos.
 
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Old 04-22-11, 09:03 AM
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Yes, since I'm gonna use this camera for traveling, scenery, the usual tourist stuff -- I'll stick with 30 fps. Thanks....
 
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Old 04-22-11, 09:18 AM
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I am only just beginning to learn about video and compression but I might add that you would never be sorry for recording an important memory at the highest level possible.
Your camera can handle up to 64 gb cards and although you would likely not want one that big, 8 and 16 gb cards are a real bargain these days which would give you one and two hours of full Hd video.
Best Buy has 16gb cards on sale for $35.00.
 
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Old 04-22-11, 09:34 AM
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I'm stocking 8 GB SD class 10 (that's important) cards, $12.50 each, bought online.
 
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Old 04-23-11, 05:06 AM
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I don't know if that camera is similar to my little Kodak, but the Kodak really likes the high-speed SD cards.

Using a standard speed card, the camera balks after a few still photos (makes me wait before I can snap more). It also will not record 1080i/30 or 720p/60 for more than a minute or so. I have a feeling that it's filling up the internal memory, then waiting as it dumps that memory to the card.

The other issue is battery life. With the LCD screen running and recording at full HD mode the battery is exhausted after about an hour. You may want to buy a couple of spare batteries.
 
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Old 04-23-11, 08:34 AM
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Yes, for HD recording you need the higher class (speed) SDHC card. And yes, I ordered a couple replacement batteries, which also come with a car charger, so that's even more convenient, if needed.
 
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Old 04-23-11, 05:26 PM
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If your video is stunning at 30 frames, go for it.
If you need 60 frames,............memory is NOW cheap.

dont' forget to take nice stills too.

fred
(one last thing, pan slowly!!!!
 
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Old 04-23-11, 05:30 PM
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Yes, and one thing I learned, when ZOOMING, better to zoom in BEFORE start shooting and then start shooting while zooming OUT....
 
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Old 04-24-11, 05:47 AM
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Framing the shot before you start recording is the correct way to do it, however you should try not using the zoom unless it's absolutely necessary. Seriously.

When I was in the video production biz, zooming while recording was a no-no. It was considered to be the lazy man's way to frame a shot. It's much more interesting to a viewer to move the camera. (Called a "dolly" or "truck" shot.)

The reason is, we don't have zoom lenses in our eyes. We have fixed lenses, and we walk closer to get a better view. The angle of view and depth of field don't change when we walk, so it's perceived as unnatural when we watch a video or movie and the camera zooms in or out.

Zoom lenses have their place, and are primarily used in sports or as special effects such as the "snap zoom". Very rarely do you see a zoom in a professional video or film production. (Please don't cite those HGTV and DIY network shows as examples. Those shows have the worst production values of anything short of Youtube.)

Another tip: Avoid the "jump cut". A jump cut happens when you have the same subject at the same angle and distance, and you stop & start recording. Much better to move the camera off the subject, stop recording, change the angle or distance, then start the recording again.

One more: Use special effects sparingly. One blatant sign of an amateur is to fly-in, wipe, warp, or morph between every scene. This gets annoying to a viewer very quickly, and will distract them. Instead, do what the pros do: Cut from one scene to another, and use dissolves to indicate the passage of time.

Remember that the point of any video is to tell a story. In your case, you'll be documenting your travels. Let the subject matter tell the story, not the camera.
 
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Old 04-24-11, 10:39 AM
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Yes, I agree with every point you made.... See, this is my, wait, 5th camcorder? My first one was in 1989 when my daughter was born, one of those large, heavy machines, a Magnavox that produced superb quality, recording on video cassettes....

I use the zoom occasionally, like when focusing on a piece of art, and zooming out to show the surroundings...

Thanks for the tips, some good reminders....
 
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