need good sounding surround sound system.

Reply

  #1  
Old 07-20-13, 11:06 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
need good sounding surround sound system.

Hello everyone. I am putting together a new entertainment solution for my living room. I am going to be getting a sharp 70 inch TV.

I have picked a Denon 7.1 receiver but now need help with the speaker system.

I am looking for good bass (12 inch sub if possible), great sound and something that wont break the bank too bad.

I would like a 5.1 system that that is able to be wall mounted. If it is not a factory option for wall mount something easy to convert or if anyone has a solution for this please let me know.

One more think, I am looking for a speaker that is not too bulky. I want something that would not extrude past the TV too much.

Please let me know if anyone can point me in the direction of a good speaker system.

Thank you.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 07-21-13, 05:55 AM
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 21,202
Received 260 Votes on 235 Posts
Please state your budget. Otherwise I'll recommend a Velodyne DD 15 or 18 subwoofer.
 
  #3  
Old 07-21-13, 09:15 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 563
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
If you want speakers that don't protrude too far, if your walls are sheetrock over wooden studs, look into speakers that can be partially or wholly recessed into the wall.
 
  #4  
Old 07-21-13, 09:52 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
for the speakers + sub i would say $600-800 max
 
  #5  
Old 07-21-13, 09:57 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 17
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Looking around I think the front R + L and center would be good for a in wall setup. Can anyone recommend a good setup for that?


I have been looking at Polk audio in-wall below.
Amazon.com: Polk Audio RC85i 2-Way In-Wall Speakers (Pair, White): Electronics


I would use this for my R + L and center. Would that work?


Also, would the Definitive Tech. ProMontior 800 work for my rear R + L?

Amazon.com: Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800 Bookshelf Speaker (Single, Black): Electronics
 
  #6  
Old 07-22-13, 06:23 AM
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 21,202
Received 260 Votes on 235 Posts
All speaker manufacturers say their in walls sound great and are designed for... bla... bla... The truth of the mater is that the enclosure is a key part of a speaker. When the speaker manufacturer can't control the enclosure (your wall) the quality of sound suffers. In general I do not think in wall speakers sound as good as traditional boxed type. So, on a limited I would look at traditional speakers if possible. My wife demanded in-walls so sometimes it must be done.

Because all speakers have a "personality" or a tone/feel I would try to stay with the same brand and product family if possible. Especially for the front speakers (front left, center, front right) which do the bulk of the work. You could possibly use different ones for the rears since they do less work but I'd want to hear them side-by-side to make sure they play nice together.
 
  #7  
Old 07-22-13, 07:18 AM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,739
Received 16 Votes on 15 Posts
Although Pilot Dane covered most of what I would have said, a couple key things to note about the room and speaker placement.
Back when I was a sound tech, the first thing we looked at was room construction, shape and floor type.

Letís look at the base and the floor.
If the floor is not directly on concrete, you probably won't need a huge/powerful sub. A floor on joists (main floor above basement as an example) generally will carry and amplify the base. Wall to wall carpet or carpet under the sub will reduce the sub amplification. Carpet or a floor on concrete will require more power, not necessarily a bigger sub (speaker diameter).
Sub diameter will affect the type of sound or frequencies. The smaller the sub (diameter), the tighter/sharper the base. This is the base that will give you headaches. The larger the sub (diameter) the softer the base and less responsive. Using music for example, really fast base (punk music, rock and happy hardcore) would be better with a smaller sub. Slower, drowned out base (hip hop, etc) would be better with a larger sub. In car audio (also was heavy into this), 10" was the sweet spot for all around base.
For home theater, 10" would be where I would aim if all permitted. That being said, I've seen some 8" subs perform pretty good and sound nice.

For your front and rear speakers (excluding sub and center), speakers with their own enclosure (not in wall units) are preferred and do sound better. Avoid plastic inclosures. I haven't seen too many speakers that sound really good with plastic enclosures.
Mounting and aiming direction are important. If you are working with a larger room, echo can be an issue. It's also an issue with floors directly on concrete. If you are working with a square(ish) room, place the speakers near the corners of the room. If the front wall is a lot bigger than the TV, it may be worth bringing the speakers closer to the TV instead of right in the corner. Try to keep the speakers not too much higher in elevation then the top corners of the TV. Need to remember, the sound should sound like it is coming from what you are seeing, not off in another room.
When aiming the front and rears (Left and Right speakers), you will generally aim them towards the opposite corner of the room (i.e. front Left facing the back right). This will greatly reduce the potential for echo and would have the speaker facing the general direction of the seating area. (Side note, this aiming of speakers almost always removed feed back when using microphones and greatly reduced echo in large, non-acoustically sound rooms).
If possible, aim the speakers slightly downward towards the middle or bottom of the corner opposite. Ideally, the center of the speaker should be facing your head if sitting in the middle of the room or viewing area.

Center Speaker.... If buying your speakers separately, this should be your best speaker and where you spend your $$ when compared to the rest. The center speaker is going to output 50-75% of your sound.
The center speaker should be located as close as possible to the center of the TV, either directly above or below. Personally, I prefer below the TV (unobstructed), but with my kids, I had to mount it on the wall directly above the TV.

I hope this helps.
 
  #8  
Old 07-23-13, 04:59 AM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Near Buffalo, NY
Posts: 4,239
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
You must make sure that the speakers you buy are compatible with the receiver. The impedance (in ohms) should be the same number for both the speaker and the receiver channel. If the spec says "100 watts at 8 ohms" you must use 8-ohm speakers.

As for power (watts), the speakers should be able to handle the same wattage as each channel, but up to 2x the power for each speaker is preferred. For example, if the receiver is rated at 100 watts per channel, your speaker should be rated anywhere from 50 to 100 watts. The worst thing you can do to a speaker is send it a distorted signal. Underpowering results in distortion.

Speaker heights should be the same height as your ears when you are seated. Left & right should be placed 30 degrees from the center of the primary listening area. Curtains, tapestry, and upholstery fabrics placed opposite the speakers will help absorb unwanted reflections. Glass and drywall opposite the speakers will cause early reflections, which can be annoying.

Carpeting on the floors will absorb sounds above about 1,000 hz. Subwoofer frequencies will penetrate and "couple" with the typical residential wood structure, so the system may bother others in the house. If that happens, isolate the sub from the floor. Post back for more info on that. To increase bass loudness from the sub, put the sub in the wall at the junction of a floor and wall. For even more bass, put it in a corner.

Sub-bass frequencies are influenced more than others by room dimensions and reflections. The most common issue is "standing waves" which can enhance certain frequencies and cancel others. If you sit in your ideal spot and don't hear bass, but you move three feet to the left and hear too much, you are experiencing standing waves. No amount of EQ or increased amplification will correct this phenomenon. It is part of the room. Experiment with placement of the sub so the standing waves enhance the bass at the listening location.
 
  #9  
Old 07-23-13, 05:58 AM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,739
Received 16 Votes on 15 Posts
Oh, good catch Rick on the speaker resistance. I forgot that bit which is important.
Lower resistance speakers then the amp is rated for is bad and can/will damage the amp (i.e don't run 4ohm on an 8ohm amp). You can run the opposite (8ohm speakers on a 4 ohm amp) but the quality and power will be lost.
I should note, I've noticed a lot of the systems in a box are coming out with 6ohm speakers/amps. Just a heads up about that.

One thing I forgot to mention is 3/4 rule when it comes to power (aka RMS value for the electronic and audio guys). If you are working with a large room, and tend to like the house the shake when bombs go off in the movie, size your system larger. You do not want to exceed 3/4 of the amps capable volume. Sound quality (signal to noise ratio) takes a dive over 3/4 on almost all amps (or 70.7%). This will be plus or minute depending on the quality of the equipment. I've had equipment that was almost perfectly clean over 85% and other cheap units that would generate tons of noise above 50%.
 
  #10  
Old 07-23-13, 09:09 AM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MI
Posts: 2,614
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Careful with those generalizations. Most amps are specified into an 8-ohm load, but that doesn't mean you are restricted to that impedance. Many higher quality amps deliver even more power into 6 and 4-ohm impedances, and some of the best speaker systems present a very low impedance. The 8-ohm spec is merely a standard--not a limit--and not a measure of sound quality. Often you can get a better picture of an amps true power capability by reading ALL the specs, but unfortunately you can often only find the short-form version online.

With the caveat that impedance capability doesn't relate to sound quality, I would avoid an amp that recommends against less than an 8-ohm speaker. That usually indicates a wimpy power supply and undersized output transistors (or heatsinks).
 
  #11  
Old 07-23-13, 09:57 AM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,739
Received 16 Votes on 15 Posts
Originally Posted by Ē guy48065ď
Careful with those generalizations. Most amps are specified into an 8-ohm load, but that doesn't mean you are restricted to that impedance. Many higher quality amps deliver even more power into 6 and 4-ohm impedances, and some of the best speaker systems present a very low impedance. The 8-ohm spec is merely a standard--not a limit--and not a measure of sound quality. Often you can get a better picture of an amps true power capability by reading ALL the specs, but unfortunately you can often only find the short-form version online.

With the caveat that impedance capability doesn't relate to sound quality, I would avoid an amp that recommends against less than an 8-ohm speaker. That usually indicates a wimpy power supply and undersized output transistors (or heatsinks).
In my experiences, most home stereo amps where 8 ohm output. Higher end units (I'm excluding pro gear here) can have the ability to support down to 4 ohm, but most consumer units don't. Of the higher end units, most (slightly older) had a physical switch on the back. Newer units may have a switch or be setup for 4ohm, but call it "Auto select".
That being said, I've seen more and more 6ohm units appearing on the market. These from what I can see, are lower end (theater in a box) units and come with their own speakers as a kit. The mid-range theater-in-a-box I bought for my weight room at home happens to be one of these 6 ohm units.

Speaker impedance and sound quality have nothing to do with each other. The volume (of the amps total capacitance) does. Safe rule of thumb is to size so you do not exceed ~70% of the amps total power.

Now there are always exceptions out there, probably less now then in the past however. Iím also ignoring pro equipment as the OPís budget would not cover it.
One blast from the past exception is an old Sony amp I still own (1970ís ?). 105db rated. Actual electrical power output per channel was ~65W at 2ohm. As a kid, I blew more speakers on that amp, then all the other amps combined.
 
  #12  
Old 07-24-13, 09:32 AM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MI
Posts: 2,614
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Mike,
65WPC @ 2-ohms--If that Sony has a good linear output it would be rated at a whopping 16WPC @ 8 ohms. Yep--that'll blow speakers fer sure as you crank it up into clipping trying to get it loud
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description: