new with audio receivers, mine keeps shutting off

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Old 10-13-20, 05:40 PM
J
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new with audio receivers, mine keeps shutting off

this happens it seems when I either turn up the volume or the music is too much, bass I presume. Obviously this is a normal self protective function but am I doing something wrong or is my receiver weak? It's an old kenwood 5.1, might it need an internal cleaning or something? It's dusty in there. If you need any more details let me know, but this appears to me to be a basic general issue I'm ignorant of. Thanks!
 
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Old 10-13-20, 07:07 PM
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An amplifier will go into protection mode if detects a short, a low operating impedance or too much audio level.

If you have four speakers connected...... try just using a single pair.
If you only have two speakers connected..... try running on high volume on the left side and then on the right side. See if it goes into protect with a single speaker. If it does.... the speaker has too low impedance for the amp.
 
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Old 10-14-20, 08:20 PM
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Thanks PJ. But what do you mean by low operating impedence and how do I diagnose this and is it something bad needing repair and is too much audio level within the limits of the dial, the receiver itself, is that normal? Doesn't make sense they'd make to produce too much volume.

Before I try your single speaker method, I should point out now I've killed three speakers lol, nice ones too so I'm scared at this point. I suppose then I've got one left as a sacrificial speaker to test with. Speaking of which, are these repairable somehow? I checked one from the inside as close to the main body of the speaker as possible at the contacts and it's dead, makes scratchy noise. Do these have standard sizes and fittings to swap them out with new ones or at $5 a piece is it just not worth it? And this would be my second Kenwood I'm playing with, new to this tech, and I've not seen any function to shift the volume from speaker to speaker as you suggested. How does that usually look? I can run a test to test each speaker, with just noise, I suppose I could run at high volume if that will suffice. So so far I've killed, apparently two 3ohm speakers and one 4ohm. I've got some 8ohm ones I'm waiting to use to replace but not sure what's going on with receiver yet so...

oh, it's KRF-V5030D if that helps and manual says the front channel, where speakers died, 60 watts each. How's that sound? Thanks
 
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Old 10-15-20, 04:57 AM
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Look over your speakers for a sticker or label. Often it will tell you it's impedance. If it doesn't you can remove a speaker from it's cabinet and the impedance is often stamped on the back of the speaker.

If you are killing speakers you may be simply pushing your amplifier and speakers too hard, asking them to do something they simply can't. Distortion is one of the worst things for speakers. Cheap amps often have a lot of distortion to begin with and only gets worse as you crank up the volume.

Speakers can be repaired but it depends on what blew. If you blew out the coil then I'd just get a new speaker. But, if the suspension surround tore or came loose then it's pretty easy to fix. You can buy kits online to replace the surrounds pretty inexpensively. Surrounds are usually a soft sometimes spongy rubber which decays over time. A nice, new and tight surround might allow you to get a bit more out of your existing speakers.
 
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Old 10-15-20, 04:44 PM
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I thought I mentioned impedence no? same as resistance sorta? 3, 4, and waiting to sacrificed possibly 8ohm ones. I've got a lot more. Is there a rule of thumb with this? Or do people just blow cheap speakers all the time testing out new units? or is my old used Kenwood probably just old and not functioning like it did new? they make these easy to open. Does a good dust cleaning with the right tools inside add life and functionality to these things? I'm thinking that could do the trick, but I trust you guys more on this stuff.
 
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Old 10-15-20, 05:02 PM
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I'm not an expert on speakers but I have had some long term use of speakers in a pro setting.

First, I don't know what speakers or amps you're using so its difficult to give you any specific or generalized info. But to go off of PDs advice, what he is trying to tell you is for example: if you have a 1000 watt rated amp & your trying to drive 250 watt rated speakers with that amp, you're gonna blow speakers quite easily. Your amps are just too powerful for your speakers.
You need to check the rated wattage of both & make sure they are compatible.

Another thing for me to ask about is whether or not you have a powered or passive speakers. They must be matched. Do you have to plug in your speakers to an outlet?
What are you trying to drive the speakers with? A powered system with an amp already in it or is it a passive system with a stand alone amp?

I mean, there are a million variables here. We just need to know what equipment your using.
 
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Old 10-16-20, 12:33 AM
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Here are some specs I mentioned earlier:

"...apparently two 3ohm speakers and one 4ohm. I've got some 8ohm ones I'm waiting to use to replace but not sure what's going on with receiver yet so...

oh, it's KRF-V5030D if that helps and manual says the front channel, where speakers died, 60 watts each. How's that sound? Thanks"

So 60 watts, but I don't know what that equates to for ohms. 3ohms, two of em died, one 4. So 60 is too much and I need higher impedence speakers? Why doesn't the manual just tell me the minimum impedence for the speaker? Did I turn the volume up too much sending too many watts to fill the big hole of little 3ohm speakers heating them up or something? I just read up on this stuff a bit. Would this mean a higher impedence would restrict that wattage keeping it cooler in the speaker? Am I close? But why have a speaker with such little impedence and it's risk of blowing out? What's the advantage? I'll take another look in the manual...

I'm not sure what you're asking about the powered and passive. The speakers are passive, and the receiver is powered, one unit. I think you're telling me you can have that thing in two pieces, one connected the wall.

Thanks!
 
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Old 10-16-20, 07:14 PM
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aha! It's never right under my nose like this. Until it is. Yeah it often is. I got bad eyes though and didn't think it would be right there, and never dealt with speakers. Well I'm a pro now. Thanks. If you ever get any speaker issues let me know.
 
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Old 10-17-20, 04:53 AM
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If you've been using 3 and 4 ohm speakers and cranking the volume hard it's no wonder you're blowing things. My guess is that with those speakers your amp was distorting as it was quickly pushed to it's limit. That out of control, distorted sound can be very hard on speakers.

Keep in mind that your amp is rated for 8-16 ohm speakers which is unusual these days. The most common today is probably 8 ohm which is at the bottom end of the range for your amp. That might make it easier to push the amp to it's limit than with higher impedance speakers.
 
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Old 10-17-20, 10:26 AM
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Yeah, I recall what I think you're calling distortion. And I had no idea what it was. Oops. What do you mean 8-16 is unusual but 8 is minimum? What would be typical today? Something with a lower minimum not blowing out these lower impedance speakers? Thanks.
 
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Old 10-17-20, 10:59 AM
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You said in an earlier post that you have 8 ohm speakers. They will work fine with your receiver but as Pilot Dane noted they may overload if you push the volume too high since your receiver can handle up to 16 ohms.

Just as a general note:

Speaker impedance is additive when connected in series and divided when connected in parallel.

Two 4 ohm speakers (S) connected in series on the same channel as Amp+ to S1+, S1- to S2+, S2- to Amp- is an 8 ohm load on the amp (4 ohms + 4 ohms).

Two 8 ohm speakers connected in parallel on the same channel with A+, S1+, S2+ all connected together and A-, S1-, S2- all connected together is a 4 ohm load on the amp (8 ohm/2).
 
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Old 10-17-20, 11:38 AM
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"8 ohm speakers. They will work fine with your receiver but as Pilot Dane noted they may overload if you push the volume too high since your receiver can handle up to 16 ohms."

aha. Important note there. So these things are kinda user-free, free to f up. And your series vs parallel breakdown was very informative. Good thing I remember a bit about that from an electronics class in college 20 some years ago. Thanks!

oh, and another thing to make note of, unless I'm wrong, they push more out of the two front L & R speakers it would appear, hence my 1.5 large center I currently have hooked up is still alive, but I'm gonna take it out. I think I noticed another sub woofer(or just a large speaker, not sure of the exact distinction) with a low impedance. Maybe my point here about L and R speakers is why these centers are low impedance? Thanks. I'm getting it slowly but surely


The "sub" in the sub woofer indicates that hole at the bottom 'woof'n below (where the lil ones above are 'tweet'n)huh? Duh.
 
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Old 10-17-20, 03:52 PM
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Two 4 ohm speakers (S) connected in series on the same channel as Amp+ to S1+, S1- to S2+, S2- to Amp- is an 8 ohm load on the amp (4 ohms + 4 ohms).

Two 8 ohm speakers connected in parallel on the same channel with A+, S1+, S2+ all connected together and A-, S1-, S2- all connected together is a 4 ohm load on the amp (8 ohm/2)."

so hmm... does the physical arrangement of my terminals indicate that my front three are in parallel while my surrounds are in series?
 
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Old 10-17-20, 04:59 PM
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does the physical arrangement of my terminals indicate that my front three are in parallel while my surrounds are in series
No--they are each separate channels: right front, left front, center, surround right, surround left. As I noted the connection to each channel can be a single speaker or speakers in series or in parallel. In the example I gave, the connection was for one channel only. That can be duplicated for each channel separately.
 

Last edited by 2john02458; 10-17-20 at 05:00 PM. Reason: listed channels in order as seen on receiver
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Old 10-17-20, 05:17 PM
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Oh you're saying the user can hook up more than one speaker per channel following the rules of series and parallel if one so desires. Awesome. I guess if I ever wanted a while bunch of speakers.
 
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Old 10-18-20, 07:22 AM
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Rule for speaker impedance versus amplifier/receiver impedance:

Try to have the net speaker impedance equal to the amp impediance but if you cannot get it exact, then have the net speaker impedance greater than the amp impedance.

Examples: Two 8 ohm speakers on one/each 8 ohm amp channel, connect the speakers in series (and then connect the array to the amp).

Two 8 ohm speakers on a 4 ohm amp channel. Connect the speakers in parallel for a net speaker impedance of 4 ohm that exactly matches the amp.

Four 8 ohm speakers on an 8 ohm amp channel. Make two parrallel connected pairs of speakers. Connect the two pairs in series as if they were single speakers. Connect the final array of 4 speakers (net impedance 2x4 or 8 ohms) to the amp.

Four 4 ohm speakers on one 8 ohm amp channel. Connect all 4 speakers in series (one series loop).

One 4 ohm speaker on an 8 ohm amp channel. You can get away connecting it but be careful not to turn the volume up too high.

Usually the tweeter will blow first if you crank the volume high enough that the sound is noticeably distorted compared with at modest volume. While a speaker unit or speaker system or speaker cabinet may be rated for so many watts of amplifier power, the tweeter may sustain perhaps only a fifth of that power (in watts) before blowing. The power rating of the tweeter is based on the proportion of higher frequency energy present in audio content representing sounds heard in nature or from acoustical instruments. Overload distortion of audio usually produces a much greater proportion of high frequency energy.
 
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