Humidifier placement...Ugh!


  #1  
Old 02-22-05, 07:18 AM
wtavcar
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Humidifier placement...Ugh!

Need help to install a humidifier on the furnace and puzzled where to put.

Original installer (before I bought the house) put the furnace in the corner of the house. It came with one but never worked. I subsequently put a HP on the system so I tossed it out when the return was reconfigured to accept the HP unit.

My wife/I never had a problem. My kids are more sensitive so I investigated why using RH% meter. The humidity is low in the house.

After looking at "usual placement" I am stuck. I have a Electric furnace as primary. Chromolox standup version, as opposed to most oil/gas that are long/flat.

The "return" trunk has (looking from bottom-up)

1) Sheet metal curve leading to furnace
2) HP coil assembly
3) Electrostatic air cleaner lying on its side.

That leaves a total of about 6" before I hit the overhead return trunk.

I am therefore unable to put the humidifier on the system.

I do have a suspended ceiling in the furnace room. It houses a washer/dryer and sink. The return trunk does lead into a section of return that was built simply enclosing 2 rows of floor joists.

Now, The space between the ceiling and joists would allow for a humidifier.....BUT.....That would mean (1) getting a model the attaches upwards....OR..... build some sort of metal box that would attached to the trunk (upwards) and allowing the attachement of a standard HUM in the usual orientaion....

Now....again...if i choose option 2. How do I orient the box/HUM so the airflow on the return does not create a problem for the HUM.

Problem 2: From what I gather the stat that comes in most HUM kits punches into the return about 6" before you get to the HUM. That would mean I have to bury the stat above the suspended ceiling; which would mean moving the tile every time I need to adjust .

Power and water is at my fingertips, since there was one there before. It's placement that bugs me. ALSO, If I attempt to place it above the air cleaner (and the HUM leaks) I will have a disaster on my hands.

HELP !
 
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Old 02-22-05, 11:13 AM
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The "return" trunk has (looking from bottom-up)

1) Sheet metal curve leading to furnace
2) HP coil assembly
3) Electrostatic air cleaner lying on its side.

I take it that the air does go through the filter and then the coil?? I think you will find that the EAC dont work like they say. might want To look up a 5" pleated filter to fit in there. I dont have the WWW for you but they have humidifiers that will go on the bottom of the duct are panning in the joist that you talked about . look up Maid-O-Mist Rainbow pwer humidifier.
The HUMtstat you will set and forget it.
Dont forget a A 50 relay to turn it on and off with the blower.

ED
 
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Old 02-22-05, 11:40 AM
wtavcar
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Talking

YUP!

You got it. The whole mess is squeezed into the corner of the basement of the house.

Space it at a premium. When the HP was installed they had to shoe-horn it in so the setup was such. The Air cleaner sat in between the furnace and the curved return trunk. Because the HP evaporator was so large they change the whole mess and placed the EAC above the evaporator. I would imagine in case moisture drips onto the EAC.

By doing so, it effectively squeezed out the possibility to put a HUM.

Since I am forced to put one back I now am confronted with "where the hell do I put it".

The joist I am talking about is nothing more that a run of sheetmetal nailed along 2 adjoining joists on the basement to "I imagine" save headroom. Once near furnace, a duct comes out of it and goes into EAC > HP > curved elbow >> Furnace.

The EAC works just fine. Actually, I think it's great because it stop the crud from collecting onto HP coil. Seems like a normal set up to me.

My idea is this:

I have about 12-14" between the bottom of the joists to the suspended ceiling.

If I were to make a metal box. It would attach to the underside of the sheetemetal on these joists. The box would be roughly the height of the unit. An opening on the top of the box to attach to return trunk. Another opening on the side of the box that the HUM screws to. The orientation, in regard to airflow, is therefore an issue.

Which way does the air flow go thru the HUM? I assume air enters by the cold and returns to flow via the hot. This avoids the moisture being evaporated by either the HP/Furnace. Also, maybe not shorting the wires in the furnace.

1) If I put HUM facing the flow will it create a vacuum, if air speed is too high.

2) If I put HUM facing flow (i.e. air flows into opening on back of HUM) will it bee too much?

3) Putting it 90 degrees to flow might be best. I am guessing!

When installed "normally" the air flow flys accross the opening. Since I cannot I am trying othe ideas on for size.

I have not bought a unit yet so I am entertaining ANY idea right now.

If the HUM is oriented
 
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Old 02-23-05, 09:36 AM
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That Maid-O-Mist humidifier dont need a box .It will go right in the bottom of that panning if you want.

Still lost here Does the air go through the coil then through the EAC unit above it?????

Because the HP evaporator was so large they change the whole mess and placed the EAC above the evaporator. I would imagine in case moisture drips onto the EAC.


ED
 
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Old 02-23-05, 10:42 AM
wtavcar
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OK,

If we are to follow the airflow:

1) it runs along ceiling in the return trunk.
2) it turns downwards at the furnace
3) travels thru the EAC
4) travels accross/thru the HP evaporator
5) Makes a 90 degree turn into the furnace.

The EAC/evaporator are stacked one on top
of the other (the EAC on top).

The EAC is sitting flat on its side.

Better ?

Walter
 

Last edited by wtavcar; 02-23-05 at 11:05 AM.
  #6  
Old 02-25-05, 05:06 AM
wtavcar
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Was at HOME Depot yesterday. I was told by the person there that I SHOULD NOT put the humidifier upstream from the EAC. According to him dust will be heavier (moisture) and the filter will work less efficiently.

It should be EAC(Clean) > Humidifier(Humidify) > Furnace (Heat).

I have a BIG problem with that statement. Every instruction sheet for HUM installation SAYS " place unit on cold air return and pipe from hot to HUM". This setup implies that the air filters, whatever type they may be, sit in between the HUM and furnace.

Is this guy smoking something funny? The logic makes "kinda" sense but every furnace setup I have ever seen, the HUM is always upstream from the filter.

Comments ?

More-and-More confused.
 
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Old 02-25-05, 08:18 AM
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Was at HOME Depot yesterday. I was told by the person there that I SHOULD NOT put the humidifier upstream from the EAC. According to him dust will be heavier (moisture) and the filter will work less efficiently.
That guy from home depot is no hvac tech at all just some one off the street . Put it in like the paper said and get that EAC out of there. You wont keep it clean and it wont work for you. You can slip a 5 " pleated filter in there.

ED
 
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Old 02-25-05, 09:13 AM
wtavcar
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Why yank the EAC? Its the old 120V version with pre-filter (like a stove filter), then two "cells" that I simply wash every month.

I guess it's for my own education. Aren't they good? The generic pleated filters are not cheap. The investment (per year) is much higher that my setup. The low end fibrous filters are cheap about $2 (CAN). but the 3M good ones run you $10-$15 a pop. Do that x 12 and you get a heafty bill.

What about those washable eletro-stac versions? Are they worth it?

I have seen many different ones in the store, but never the 5" thick ones. I guess not in Canada.

I even asked about Maid-O-Mist, no cigar.

Most reno centres around here carry the THERMOLEC, WAIT 5000/7000, or Desert Spring versions.
 
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Old 02-25-05, 10:34 AM
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check out this one then for under the duct.

http://www.ontimemall.com/product732.html

http://www.electronicaircleaners.com/database/documents/honeywell_he440_product_data.pdf#search='furnace%20humidifier%20for%20under%20the%20duct'

http://wholehousehumidifiers.com/skuttle/

http://wholehousehumidifiers.com/trion/

On the EAC filter as soon as any dirt gets on the wires they dont are cant stop the dirt is all . Also see what a new wire for them cost.

ED
 

Last edited by Ed Imeduc; 02-25-05 at 10:56 AM.
  #10  
Old 03-02-05, 07:11 AM
wtavcar
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Have done the tour of the reno stores.... I am very impressed by the WAIT 5000/7000 line of humidifers. I tried to find a web site that would give some technical information on them. Cannot find. HELP ?

From what I understand it is "preferable" to put any unit on the cold side. I am told that it is not "wrong" to put it on the warm side. It's just the way most drum ones are build that the warm comes into the center of the drum, then goes out towards the cold air cut-out thru the sponge. I did read the installation spec. on the Desert Spring and it MUST be on the cold side. Some other (THERMOLEC) allows a warm side setup.

NOW! The WAIT 5000/7000 models mount on the side so the water enters the "pad" on top, goes thru the pad, and exists the bottom. It would appear that they also are to be mounted on the cold side.

1) Can I mount this type (i.e. WAIT 5000/7000) on the HOT side, and connect the tube the cold air return? Its flow is reverse but the pad is in coorect orientation.

This would do it for me!

2) Since the clutter around the furnace is great I was thinking to mount the humidifier about 5' from the furnace on the hot trunk. Since the cold/hot trunks are parallel to each other at this location (less that 2') cutting into the system would be OK. Am I too far from the "usual" setup close to the furnace?

3) Most stats. that come with these kits are to be mounted into the cold duct, usually just above the HUM. Is there a problem mount it facing the floor (My cold trunk in this area is between 2 floor joists so little options)? I there a way of mounting elsewhere with a "sensor" in the trunk. I would imagine I need to buy a different one from the kit?


Thanks for all the great info so far............
 
 

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