Humidifer Force Fan On.

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Old 09-12-07, 07:39 AM
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Humidifer Force Fan On.

This was from a Pvt. msg. and I am posting it here to share with others.

Jay,
I've been reading the posts online about connecting the low voltage trans to the HUM lead in the furnace junction box. That is how I had planned to connect mine, but I thought this would turn-on the blower motor when required by the humidistat. The problem I have is I live in a 5 story condo building and my heat does not run very often but I have very dry air, so I will need a way for the humidistat to key the blower to start up. I have the same looking setup as your pic. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks Scott
PS: I bought it at Home Depot..
 
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Old 09-12-07, 07:44 AM
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Hey Scott,

What do you have for t-stat? I am guessing you got the basic humidstat that came with the unit?
 
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Old 09-12-07, 07:47 AM
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From a Pvt. msg, posting it here to share with others.
Jay, Thanks for the reply. I have a Hunter programable Model 44550 t-stat and the standard H8908 humidstat. I have not started the install yet due to this issue. I have checked and I do have 4 unused wires at the t-stat. I was thinking of mounting the humidstat above the t-stat. Scott
 
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Old 09-12-07, 07:58 AM
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From Pvt. msg, share with others.

It is the Trane XR90 Model# TUX080C942D3 with an outside AC unit (on the roof) Trane Model# 2TTB0036A1000AA. Being on the 5th floor, we do use the AC a lot, but not the heat. We have about 1200sq ft of space. I will have to mount the HE220A on the air return, with the by-pass duct connected to the air supply about 3 ft above the furnace. I have easy access to both Hot and Cold water as the gas hot water heater is right beside the air return. I'm thinking Hot since most of the time the heat will not be running. I also thought about just running the fan all the time, but in a condo, you can hear it running all the time, plus BG&E have had serious rate increases for Electric. Let me know if you need anything, I have some wiring diagrams that came with the furnace, and I can easily send you pictures, or post them somewhere. Thanks Scott
 
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Old 09-12-07, 09:37 AM
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Scott,

I moved all the pvt msg over here so that way if someone else has/had the same issue as you, they can see it here.

The wire up to the HUM wire in the box that you did is getting power from the board only when there is a call of heat. If you wired it up to EAC, the power will come on any time the blower comes on. Not the other way that you are thinking.

Anyway, There are a few things we can do.

-1 Put in a new t-stat, Honeywell IAQ T-stat.

You can try the demo on this and see how easy it works.

The IAQ can do a few different things for you on the humidifier.

        On what you want happing is the "Force Fan On" set up. The fan will come on when you need humidity, and shuts off when it met it's set point. You can tie an outdoor sensor to this to control the humidity in the winter to prevent your windows from getting a lot of frost on a very cold day. I have it on mine and does a good jjob controlling the humidity.

        Draw back on this t-stat, it's expensive.. Around $200 to $250 for this. It can be an overkill for your system since your's is not a two stage, variable speed furnace. On my set up, it's worth it since I have a Two stage variable speed XV90, Humidifier, Fresh air damper, Dehumidfy on demand, and air cleaner.

        Another draw back, if this ok with you. if you do use this set up, you are going to get your "High/Cooling" blower speed, so you may get the noise.

        Plus side if you are willing to put up with the blower noise for the comfort, you can program the stat to do "Circ".. What that does if there is no call of heat/cool or humidity, the fan will come on every now and then.. That will help move the air around in your condo to improve comfort.

        2 -Use of your basic humidistat, and remove the Transformer, and use the power from your R on the t-stat w/ the humidistat next to the t-stat. I won't go into the wire details untill we know what you want to do.

        Down side, the basic humidistat has a pretty large swing. That fan may be running longer than you'd like to run.

        Plus side, Cheap!

        3 -Put in a relay. Have to get the power for the transformer on the line that's always hot. And wire it up to power up the low/heat speed when there is a call of humidity.

        Down side, wire this up can be complex for an avg person.

        Plus side, It maybe a bit quieter, and chaper than the IAQ.


        Kinda going off track, How old is this Condo? Why my asking is that seems like your equipment is pretty large for your set up....

        A 80,000 BTU furnace, and 3 ton A/C, That's why your furnace don't run much... How it is in the summer with A/C?
         
          #6  
        Old 09-12-07, 10:48 AM
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        HE220A with Force Fan on demand of humidity

        Thanks Jay! First, they started construction of this condo building in 2003, finished in 2004, I moved in in April 2005 (new unit top floor '5th'). We have always thought that the furnace is too big for the unit, it gets pretty hot in the utility room with it is running. On the upside, we don't use it very much at all and the AC is GREAT!!! I work from home and set it at 74F in the day and even on the hot days it will only run 2-3 times between 9am and 5pm. It will kick on and run about 35-40 mins run time, then off or hours. At night I set it for 69F and it is very comfy and cools from 73F to 68F in about 1.5hrs.

        Now onto the good stuff.. I really like option 1 but that is a bit much to pay. $75-$100 and I would do it. So I will opt for option 2 and mount my HUM-stat right above my T-stat in the dinning room area. Do you need any pic's?
         
          #7  
        Old 09-12-07, 11:42 AM
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        Originally Posted by sarcdw View Post
        GREAT!!! I work from home and set it at 74F in the day and even on the hot days it will only run 2-3 times between 9am and 5pm. It will kick on and run about 35-40 mins run time, then off or hours. At night I set it for 69F and it is very comfy and cools from 73F to 68F in about 1.5hrs
        Yikes.. It may cool great, but WAY oversized! What is your humidity level%?

        Now onto the good stuff.. I will opt for option 2 and mount my HUM-stat right above my T-stat in the dinning room area. Do you need any pic's?
        You can post a pix on here if you want.. I'll try to "draw" up a plan for you to wire this up.
         
          #8  
        Old 09-12-07, 11:49 AM
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        In the summer daytime 30 to 42%, Winter with no table top unit running it reads L. but I try to keep it about 35-40% with a 1.5gal table top unit I move all around, living room in day, bedroom at night. I know what you mean on the size. I think they put the same units in for all 4 floor plans. http://www.davidsbrown.com/new_homes/new-condos/new-owings-mills-condos/brook-ridge-floorplans.html
         
          #9  
        Old 09-12-07, 01:26 PM
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        Jay,
        I was looking around and found this site for the Honeywell IAQ T-stats. Which one of these models would work for me? There prices don't seem too bad if this is the right ones.
        http://pexsupply.com/categories.asp?cID=394&brandid=&osadcampaign=googleHoneywellVisionProThermostat
         
          #10  
        Old 09-12-07, 04:45 PM
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        Those are not it. The link you had only has the Single, or two stage t-stat.. No control of humidifier.



        You want the YTH9421 model.
         
          #11  
        Old 09-12-07, 06:13 PM
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        Ok, cool. I found it for $168 http://allthermal.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=YTH9421C1002&Category_Code=HON if this is it, I will order it. Please let me know. Then I may need just a bit of help setting up the wiring, but it looks like I just wire the hum silonid directly to the unit, nothing extra.
         
          #12  
        Old 09-12-07, 06:30 PM
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        Originally Posted by sarcdw View Post
        Ok, cool. I found it for $168

        T-stat

        if this is it, I will order it. Please let me know. Then I may need just a bit of help setting up the wiring, but it looks like I just wire the hum silonid directly to the unit, nothing extra.
        Wow, that is a good price. They must of came down at last.

        I'll help you with the set up, and wiring. Just let me know when you get it.
         
          #13  
        Old 09-13-07, 05:47 AM
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        Scott,

        I just want to give you an update. I did some reading last night on your model, and learn that your model will run the blower at a slower speed when the fan switch is "ON".

        You'll have to check for me when you have time by removing the blower panel below and see what color wire is on "heat" tap on the board. We might be able to slow down the blower abit more to make it more quiet.
         
          #14  
        Old 09-13-07, 10:17 AM
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        Jay, it is really hard to see, the board is mounted upside down.

        This is what I see:
        Heat= Blue wire from blower
        Cool= Black wire from blower
        Park= Red wire from blower
        Park= Yellow wire from blower

        The board is a White Rogers Intell-Ignition PCB.
         
          #15  
        Old 09-13-07, 10:43 AM
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        Originally Posted by sarcdw View Post
        Jay, it is really hard to see, the board is mounted upside down.
        Well, didn't you learn how to read upside down in school?? You gotta stand on your head to read!

        This is what I see:
        Heat= Blue wire from blower
        Cool= Black wire from blower
        Park= Red wire from blower
        Park= Yellow wire from blower
        Take the service door off for your burner area, on the right side is the silver sticker with the model # and what not.. See what the Temp Rise is rated at on your furnace.

        I am thinking of moving Red to Heat, (slower speed) and I want you to fire the furnace (If it's cool enough to do so) let it run for 15 min or so, take a reading at the filter, and above the A/C coil and see what the temp rise is. If your temp rise stays in range of the plate rating, then we are good.. But if we go over, then the blue has to go back.
         
          #16  
        Old 09-13-07, 10:47 AM
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        Jay,
        I went back and looked at it somemore. On the diagram on the inside of the blower are cover, bottom cover, there is a Table A for the Speed Taps for I.D. Fan Motor. It lists the models and how they would be connected then tells what each color wire is:

        Red= Low
        Yellow= Med. Low
        Blue= Med. High
        Black= High

        So the Heat is setup to use the Med.High fan setting it looks like. My only concern is if we lower it to Med.Low for Heat with the size of this unit (80K BTU/1200sq ft), would it get too hot inside the unit when the heat runs? Or is there really nothing between the fan speed and the burner heat build up?
         
          #17  
        Old 09-13-07, 10:51 AM
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        See my last post..

        I had my Yellow and Blue turned around.. We'll start off with Red.. if it's too high, then we go to Yellow..
         
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        Old 09-13-07, 11:08 AM
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        Ok, I checked out the label. Rise Rage is 35F to 65F. Outlet Air 165F and Limit set is 190F. I also remembered that this small utility room (6ft by 10ft) has a sprinkler overhead. I'm leaning toward leaving it, the sound of the current Heat fan setting is not bad at all. Is the Heat fan speed the one that the Humidifier would kick on using the new IAQ T-Stat? Or would it be the typical fan on setting - High like the cool is?
         
          #19  
        Old 09-13-07, 02:27 PM
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        Originally Posted by sarcdw View Post
        the sound of the current Heat fan setting is not bad at all. Is the Heat fan speed the one that the Humidifier would kick on using the new IAQ T-Stat? Or would it be the typical fan on setting - High like the cool is?

        Yes, when the IAQ calls for humidity, it will turn on the Fan on the "G" on the board, that will use the heat speed.

        Most basic line uses Cool high speed on fan on G.. But your furnace uses the the heat speed instead.
         
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        Old 09-13-07, 02:44 PM
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        That will be fine. I downloaded the IAQ doc's last night to look at in my spare time until it comes in. I can't wait to try try it all out.
         
          #21  
        Old 09-18-07, 08:58 PM
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        Has it arrived??
         
          #22  
        Old 09-19-07, 10:35 AM
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        Not yet, I called them yesterday to verify that it shipped. They said that it went out on Monday 9/17 due to it coming from a different warehouse. So I'm patiently waiting on it. But can't wait until it gets here.
         
          #23  
        Old 09-24-07, 03:46 PM
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        Jay, Snail Mail has delivered the new TStat today. I installed the HE220A unit last night and man is this some very tuff ductwork. I have to cut the round hole for the by-pass first tonight then I will mount the EIM on the wall by the furnace. From what I can tell, I would wire the W1, Y, G, C, and R from the board in the furnace to the EIM? I think I may have to run to the Depot and get about 6ft of TState wire. All I have is the the 2 wire that came in the install it.
         
          #24  
        Old 09-24-07, 03:56 PM
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        Originally Posted by sarcdw View Post
        the install it.
        Sorry, that is suppose to be KIT on the end.
         
          #25  
        Old 09-24-07, 07:05 PM
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        Originally Posted by sarcdw View Post
        I will mount the EIM on the wall by the furnace.
        I just mounted mine on the return duct, and ran the wire from there.

        From what I can tell, I would wire the W1, Y, G, C, and R from the board in the furnace to the EIM?
        Right.

        I think I may have to run to the Depot and get about 6ft of TState wire. All I have is the the 2 wire that came in the install it.
        Two wires? Must be something they provided.. I had to buy my own wire to hook it up all up.


        I just got home not long ago, and I need to get supper. I'll come back later on, and post stuff I'd suggest to do.
         
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        Old 09-24-07, 09:17 PM
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        110- 0

        172- 1

        174- 1

        176- 1

        180- 0

        220- 3

        240-3

        280-1

        342- 1 (if you got the outdoor sensor) 0 if no.

        370- 1

        372- 3 (if you got the outdoor sensor) 1 if no.

        374- 1

        379- 0 (you can turn it on if you want some humidity control in A/C mode - 1.. It will turn on the A/C and try to bring down the humidity, and may over cool the home 3˚ below set point.

        500-2

        510- 3

        -----------

        The programing of this t-stat is very easy. My mom can even program it.. where in the past, she could never figure out how to it, and end up putting it on HOLD.

        Once you got the t-stat set up, just leave it alone, and give it a week or so to "learn" your home.
         
          #27  
        Old 09-25-07, 09:03 PM
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        Thanks Jay, last night after I got back from Home Depot, I finished off the install of the by-pass duct, connected the saddle valve to the hotwater pipe, and did a manual test with the plug-in transformer from the install kit. All worked well. Tonight I pulled out the old Tstat wire, connected the 'red, white, and blue' as the new Honeywell VisionPro IAQ 123 leads, put a new 18-7 wire between the furnace board and the EMI (W,Y,R,G,&C), wired the Humidifier to the EMI using the 18-2 in the install kit, installed a jumper between the RH and the HUM1 for the non-powered Humidifier, and then powered everything up. I set the date and time and the AC came on right away (it was getting a bit warm). After dinner, I setup my program and tested the Humidifier by setting it it for 45%. It came right on and turned on the fan. I let it run until it increased from 42% to 43%, then I set it back to 40% and it cut off. Everything is looking great, just like I wanted it. The only thing I ran into: When I went into the Install setting, I was in the cool mode instead of heat, so I did not see the option 0374 Humidifier fan action. I glanced at the manual picture one more time and noticed that it shows it in heat mode for the install setting. I will let it set for a few days then report back. Thanks again for all your help..
         
          #28  
        Old 09-26-07, 07:06 AM
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        Glad to hear it all went well.

        The humidifer will only run when you set the t-stat to heat mode.

        Keep us posted when winter does hit.

        Post us a picture to share your set up with us.

        Here is mine..
         
          #29  
        Old 10-04-07, 06:44 PM
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        Well, it's been just a little over a week. We are still using the AC a lot for now. I've tried to notice how it is cycling. It seems to come on and run for about 8 to 12 mins then off for about 30 mins. It feels a lot more comfortable then with the Hunter Tstat because it would cool 1 degree below the set temp and rise to 1 degree above the set temp before it would kick in. So as long as there is no issue with the cycle time were good with it. I have set my schedule to run the fan in the CIR mode during the daytime 9am to 6pm and ditch my seperate air cleaner. We are using the Arm&Hammer MERV 10 pleated filters. I made a photo of the setup to post.

         

        Last edited by GregH; 10-04-07 at 07:46 PM. Reason: Resize image.
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        Old 10-04-07, 09:43 PM
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        Thanks for sharing the photo.

        Glad to hear you have notice an increase in comfort with the new T-stat.

        I bet you had fun trying to get in there and cut it out in between the two trunks, and HOW did you get in back?? Must be a thin guy! :-)

        Also, nice clean job on the wire works!
         
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        Old 10-05-07, 02:07 PM
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        Thanks, I use to be a telcom field tech. My only concern was the saddle valve, but that was the only place I could mount it, all the other pipe is plastic. I'm kinda small, prob why I had a hard time cutting that sq hole in the return, that stuff feels like 750 power cable. lol It's a bit tight to get
        to the winter/summer damper, but you don't use it much. I will just make a big note with an arrow pointing to it around back. So is that cycle time normal? If so its fine with me, just want to make sure.
         
          #32  
        Old 10-05-07, 07:39 PM
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        The run time is fair... It would be better if the system wasn't oversized. but you have no control on that.

        I can't really tell, is the supply line those plastic one? If so, keep an eye on it every now an then.. They tend to leak. I went with copper on mine instead.
         
          #33  
        Old 10-06-07, 06:45 AM
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        Yes it is the plastic tubing that came with the installation kit. If you look on the far right side, that is the gas hot water heater. I have it attached to the copper pipe on the hot water out side just above the joint in the air return duct. If all goes well, I will prob change it to one of those flexible reinforced ones they use on the ice makers now.
         
          #34  
        Old 10-06-07, 06:49 AM
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        I saw the saddle valve. That's a good spot for it.

        Your's make the hissing noise? Mine did.. I thought it was the valve.. I took out the saddle, and put in a t and shut off valve.. Hissing sound was still there.. I end up putting a pressure regulator since our water pressure was too high.
         
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        Old 10-06-07, 04:36 PM
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        It has been so hot and humid here that it has not ran yet. I will take not of this and see what happens when it starts to be used. I suspect about 2 weeks. It has been unusual hot and dry this year. Could you post a picture of the pressure valve? I'm not sure exactly what that looks like. I'm not into plumbing much, I was shocked I got this with no leaks, knock on wood.
         
          #36  
        Old 10-07-07, 09:45 PM
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        Here is the pressure regulator I had to add to stop the hissing noise.

         
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        Old 01-03-08, 11:36 AM
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        Update as winter has kicked in

        Well, the cold weather is here and it seems like the humidifier is having trouble keeping up. I've wondered if there is enough hot water flowing thru the saddle valve. Per the TStat it has ran (144hrs) since installation. I can see a very small steady stream in the drain tube, not dripping, but a stream.
         
          #38  
        Old 01-03-08, 11:46 AM
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        Happy New Year, good to see you again.. (In a way)

        Originally Posted by sarcdw View Post
        Well, the cold weather is here and it seems like the humidifier is having trouble keeping up.
        What makes you say it having trouble? What is your level and set point? Outdoor sensor being used?

        I've wondered if there is enough hot water flowing thru the saddle valve. Per the TStat it has ran (144hrs) since installation. I can see a very small steady stream in the drain tube, not dripping, but a stream.
        The stream is what is should be. Mine has ran about 240 hours so far this season.
         
          #39  
        Old 03-19-08, 07:29 AM
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        Working Ok

        Jay, I'm sorry for not responding sooner. I've had a lot of work issues going on and then my PC crashed. In reply to your post on 1/3, no outdoor sensor is being used. I usually set it on 35% then when it got cold, I set it on 30%. Changing to 30% did the trick. I forgot about changing it manually. The run time so far for the season is 216hrs.
         
         

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