Generalaire E2 Humidistat Operation

Reply

  #1  
Old 12-30-07, 06:28 PM
I
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Question Generalaire E2 Humidistat Operation

I have just installed a GeneralAire E2 humidistat and although it is working okay I have a few questions regarding the best method of operation:

1. I currently have it wired to only receive power when the furnace is on (via my furnace panels heating switched 24VAC supply). This is one of the methods listed in the installation instructions. Now, if I input a setpoint and then later the heating is off, will the E2 lose the setpoint and default to something else when it again receives power?

2. Am I correct in thinking that in the above switched power mode, I can only change the humidity setpoint when the heating is turned on?

3. I would prefer to see a continuous display of room humidity and to be able to change the humidity setpoint regardless of when the heating is on. I could do this by changing the power supply to a continuous 24VAC supply (quite simply by moving one wire along the terminal block in the furnace). In this continuous power mode, and assuming the room humidity is below setpoint, will the humidistat open the water supply to my bypass humidifier? This bothers me as then I will be wasting water when the heating is not on and no air is passing through the humidifier. This is an issue in my area as our water is metered and paid for by volume consumed. With this being the case, am I better off using the switched power mode?

It's frustrating that this unit cannot be continuously powered while also having a switched supply to only operate the humidifier when the heating is on.

Thanks for any advice

Andrew
 
  #2  
Old 12-30-07, 07:50 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ikrananka View Post
1. I input a setpoint and then later the heating is off, will the E2 lose the setpoint and default to something else when it again receives power?
I honestly don't know.. I have not been around this style of stat, and Don't know how it should act. Have you seen the changes in set point?

2. Am I correct in thinking that in the above switched power mode, I can only change the humidity setpoint when the heating is turned on?
I would think you are thinking right.

3. I would prefer to see a continuous display of room humidity and to be able to change the humidity setpoint regardless of when the heating is on.

It's frustrating that this unit cannot be continuously powered while also having a switched supply to only operate the humidifier when the heating is on.
You can display it all times.

Read the manual, the first photo on top of wire hook up.

-Wire from R at board to AC L, AC N to C on board.

Wire from HUM to HUM on E2's. other E2's HUM to humidifer, other wire from humidifier to C.
 
  #3  
Old 12-31-07, 10:54 AM
I
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
I honestly don't know.. I have not been around this style of stat, and Don't know how it should act. Have you seen the changes in set point?
I haven't seen changes in setpoint. I also found a line buried in the instructions that states "If power is lost, current settings are retained". So this answers my question.

You can display it all times.

Read the manual, the first photo on top of wire hook up.

-Wire from R at board to AC L, AC N to C on board.

Wire from HUM to HUM on E2's. other E2's HUM to humidifer, other wire from humidifier to C.
Your wiring description doesn't match that in the instructions. Are your differences intentional? The manual has the wiring as follows:

Furnace R => E2 AC L
Furnace C => E2 AC N
E2 AC N => E2 HUM 1
E2 HUM 2 => Humidifier Solenoid
Furnace R => Humidifier Solenoid

Your description, as I interpret it, gives (I have highlighted differences in bold):

Furnace R => E2 AC L
Furnace C => E2 AC N
E2 HUM 1 => E2 HUM 2
E2 HUM 2 => Humidifier Solenoid
Furnace C => Humidifier Solenoid


Another few questions have occurred to me following your answers:

1. Does it matter which way round the solenoid valve is wired, i.e. does it matter to which terminal the AC L and HUM are wired to?

2. I have wired up the E2 with the Furnace C goint to E2 AC L and the Furnace W going to E2 AC N. This is the opposite way round to what you indicate. Does this matter - the humidisatat is working the way I have it?

Thanks for all your help.
 
  #4  
Old 12-31-07, 12:04 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ikrananka View Post
Your wiring description doesn't match that in the instructions. Are your differences intentional?
I'm going by the drawing of "Wire to 24 volt for Constant display"


Furnace R => E2 AC L
Furnace C => E2 AC N
E2 HUM 1 => W on Furnace (Do you have 24volts HUM on the furnace?)
E2 HUM 2 => Humidifier Solenoid
Furnace C => Humidifier Solenoid

1. Does it matter which way round the solenoid valve is wired, i.e. does it matter to which terminal the AC L and HUM are wired to?
No, it's low voltage.

2. I have wired up the E2 with the Furnace C goint to E2 AC L and the Furnace W going to E2 AC N. This is the opposite way round to what you indicate. Does this matter - the humidisatat is working the way I have it?
The W powers up when there is call for heat. That's why the display is gone.

"L" is hot side. "N" is neutral side.
 
  #5  
Old 12-31-07, 12:30 PM
I
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
I'm going by the drawing of "Wire to 24 volt for Constant display"
My instructions don't include a "Wire to 24 volt for Constant display" option. I have "Wire to 24 volt. Bypass Humidifier" plus a number of others covering steam humidifiers. My instructions are given as FORM NO 13144 REV C. Do you have a later/different revision?

Thanks
 
  #6  
Old 12-31-07, 01:41 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
  #7  
Old 01-07-08, 11:48 AM
I
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Hi Jay11J,

Thanks - those instructions were a later rev to the ones I got with the E2's I bought. Have now re-wired as per the top diagram and all is working as I had hoped.

Many thanks for all your help.
 
  #8  
Old 01-07-08, 04:01 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Great, glad to hear you got it rewired and working as you wanted to.

Have a Great week!
 
  #9  
Old 01-08-08, 10:53 PM
B
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 6
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
exterior temp shows +106F

I have just installed the General Aire E2 humidistat and it works OK on the manual setting.

Re the automatic setting, the exterior temperature shows +106F so the unit does not work on auto.

The ext temperature should show room temperature, (about 70F) as I have the exterior sensor temporarily hooked up inside the house as I have not yet completed running the dual conductor 18g solid core exterior temp sensor wiring to the exterior.

The ext temp sensor came with a long length of two conductor multi strand wire attached. I have not shortened it yet, but I did connect it to the about 50 ft of 18 gauge solid core copper wire that I had previously run for the exterior temp sensor.

As such, I have temporarily wire nutted the multi strand wire of the sensor to the 18 gauge solid core. I now get the too high ext temp reading on the display.

I wondered if the E2 wants multi strand wire only from the sensor or if I just have too much wire length. I prefer to utilize the two conductor 18g solid core copper wire as it is sheathed, and generally physically stronger than the fine multi stand wire that came with the exterior sensor.

On another note, I appreciated your posting the REV D wiring form - my new unit came with the REV C instructions.
 
  #10  
Old 01-09-08, 06:53 AM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Is the wire that giving a false reading, is it near a electrical line, or near a transformer, or fluorescent lights?

And maybe has a pinch in it where a wire staple may be?
 
  #11  
Old 01-09-08, 08:29 AM
I
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Have you tried connecting just the supplied multi-strand wire to the E2? If it reads correctly then at least you know that the supplied sensor and multi-strand wire is not at fault.

I would also suggest that you phone GeneralAire technical support (1-866-476-5101). The design of the sensor and multi-strand wire are likely to be matched to each other - adding any addditional wire may create sufficient additional resistance to create a false reading. You may be able to get away from this by using an ultra low resistance low gauge extension wire combined with applying the offset function of the E2 (although I could be talking nonsense so best to check with GeneralAire).

The supplied sensor wires were long enough for me and so I ran the sensor outside and have the multi-strand wire directly connected to the E2. I haven't been able to completely keep the wire away from high voltage cables but where it does go near them it crosses them at 90 degrees rather than going along the same path.

I have been comparing the outside temperature readings I get on the E2 against a wireless outside temperature monitor I have and get quite good agreement between them.
 
  #12  
Old 01-09-08, 07:43 PM
B
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 6
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
yes to all three evils

Yes, my 18g soldi core wiring is near fluorescent lights, 120VAC wiring, and also the 24VAC transformer that powers the humidistat - not so good I guess, but no staples.

Per your thoughts, I experimented with hooking the factory included length of multi strand sensor wire directly to the E2.

Surprise, the "exterior" temperature readout now read was what it was supposed to be, room temperature, about 70F, same as the interior room temperature.

Then as another experiment, I inserted about 20 ft of 18g solid core wire between the E2 and the end of the factory multi strand wire. The "exterior" temperature display readout then jumped to 80F, an increase of 10 degrees for the same temperature sensor location, (near the humidistat).

This tends to suggest that the external sensor requires the multistrand wire, and that solid core wire affects the readings.

As such, I will take up your suggestion and contact General Aire and then report back if they reply. I would really prefer to stay with my 18g solid core wire.

2) Also for what it is worth, with the external sensor hooked up, even on Manual, with the set point set at 45%, and the display reading about 30%, the drum humidifier does not rotate, (external temp showing about 70F, same as inside temp).

Then when I disconnected the external sensor wires, the humidifier drum rotated as I would expect it to.

I wondered if it was normal that there would be no rotation when on Manual, but with the sensor hooked up? Seems strange to me.
 
  #13  
Old 01-10-08, 05:46 AM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I am not sure about genralaire, but Aprilaire with outdoor sensor will shut off the humidifer if it's over I think it was 60˚, No reed to run the humidifier that warm out. once it's get colder out, then it will run.

If your outdoor temps jumps around a lot, the sensor is good.
 
  #14  
Old 01-10-08, 08:52 AM
I
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bbyer View Post
Per your thoughts, I experimented with hooking the factory included length of multi strand sensor wire directly to the E2.

Surprise, the "exterior" temperature readout now read was what it was supposed to be, room temperature, about 70F, same as the interior room temperature.

Then as another experiment, I inserted about 20 ft of 18g solid core wire between the E2 and the end of the factory multi strand wire. The "exterior" temperature display readout then jumped to 80F, an increase of 10 degrees for the same temperature sensor location, (near the humidistat).

This tends to suggest that the external sensor requires the multistrand wire, and that solid core wire affects the readings.

As such, I will take up your suggestion and contact General Aire and then report back if they reply. I would really prefer to stay with my 18g solid core wire.
It's not that it needs multi-strand versus solid core. Your results seem to indicate that the supplied wire is "matched" to the sensor, i.e. the wire length, type and overall resistance have been selected so that the voltage that the E2 measures across the sensor inputs can be directly and accurately correlated to the actual temperature at the sensor. Extending or changing the wire will change the overall electrical resistance between the sensor and the E2 and hence the voltage the E2 sees at it's end will change and will be interpreted as a different temperature, much like the 10F jump you have seen. I'll be interested to hear what GeneralAire have to say (I have a second E2 to hook up that may be too far away from my sensor wire run).

If my suspicions are correct, then GeneralAire really should state in the instructions that the sensor wire cannot be changed or extended.
 
  #15  
Old 01-10-08, 08:56 AM
B
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 6
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
put sensor outside, +3F today and drum rotates

It would appear that the E2 must have the same logic setup.

I put the external sensor outside this morning, (air temp +3F), and hooked the multi strand wires directly to the E2.

The drum rotates as I would expect it to and the display registers pretty much the correct outside air temperature.

The multi strand wire is long enough for the permanent installation, (I think), so I will use that wire instead of my 18g solid core wire.

I am wondering if the signal back from the temperature sensor is DC rather than AC, and as such, multi strand wire is required.

Automobile DC electrics do not like solid core wire so probably it is the same with the sensor wiring. I will still call General Aire re the wiring and report back, however all now appears to be working as would be anticipated.
 
  #16  
Old 01-10-08, 10:04 AM
B
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 6
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
sent email asking if length, and multi vs solid matters

Yes, there are really two questions, 1) solid core vs multi strand, and 2), and does length matter?

I am also inclined to think that length does matter, and if so, that should be stated in the instructions.

I would hope that there are not special requirements, as a length and special wire restriction could be a big limitation in real world installations.

As such, I sent an email off to General Aire Canada, (the 1-866 is USA only), asking for answers re the above two questions.

I will let you know what sort of response I get.
 
  #17  
Old 01-11-08, 09:36 AM
B
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 6
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
can shorten supplied wire, but not lengthen

I got a reply back from GeneralAire Canada and they are aware of the limitations. They say that the supplied wire can be shortened, but not made longer.

They also say that GeneralAire is in the process of increasing the wire gauge size and supplied length.

I emailed back thanking them for the quick response, and suggesting that while they are making changes, to look into using the Aprilaire type sensor, as that sensor is not affected by wire length or type.

I said that ideally, I would like them to supply the sensor only, and that the sensor should be able to connect to field supplied "thermostat" wire, (in other words, solid core 18 gauge copper), of at least 75 ft in length.
 
  #18  
Old 01-11-08, 09:48 AM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Learned something new.. Honeywell you can use the 18-2 wire, and don't matter how long the run is like Apirlaire.
 
  #19  
Old 02-28-08, 02:04 AM
M
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Is the wire that giving a false reading, is it near a electrical line, or near a transformer, or fluorescent lights?

And maybe has a pinch in it where a wire staple may be?


no, it's fine. Why is humidistat showing blinking "LO"?
 
  #20  
Old 02-28-08, 08:26 PM
Jay11J's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 18,427
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by macnita View Post
no, it's fine. Why is humidistat showing blinking "LO"?
The manual says.

"Outdoor temp below -40˚, or indoor temp below 0˚, or humidity is below 10%.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: