Healthy Climate Solutions

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Old 01-22-09, 12:35 PM
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Healthy Climate Solutions

We line in Colorado (between Denver and Colorado Springs). About a year ago, we had met a Lennox dealer at a convention and contracted them to install a new heater (CX34-60D-6F), a Healthy Climate PureAir Air Purification System with the MERV16 filter, a Healthy Climate Solutions, and the (X)4146 thermostat. This was installed around March / April time frame.

The humidifier was set up on automatic at that time. When we started to run the Air Conditioner, we noticed some pipes were freezing. We contacted the dealer and he noted the humidifier was still on. He said we should have turned that off when the AC is running. He also said the the old AC (which was about five years old) was not powerful enough for the new heater / system. That was OK - we were thinking of getting a new AC anyway. We opted for the XC14-060-230-01. This was probably installed a couple of months later.

Fast forward to winter (the present). The humidity is about 29% - so says the hygrometer that is not connected to any system.

We called the dealer to inform him the humidity is still low. He said he would send a tech out. When the tech came out, we went down to the humidifier. He said right now it was on automatic (which he told me that meant it would shut off when the AC was on and it would measure the temperature outside as well to help determine how much "water" would be pumped into the air). So he opened the humidifier control, flicked a switch from automatic to manual and then also had to disconnect two wires (so the humidifier would know it is on manual and would be unable to read the outside temperature).

It has been one week today, and the humidity is still at 29%. We are also running a Hunter CareFree / NiteGlo humidifier.

The MERV16 filter has been changed as well as the filter in the humidifier. The fan is set to "On" on the thermostat, which tells us the fan should be running continously (I am also guessing going through the humidifier as well).

Is there something else that we have missed? The dry skin is becoming unbearable and we had hoped this winter would be more tolerable than last winter with the new humidifier.

The salesman and technician both told us we needed to watch the windows for moisture. They said this moisture buildup could be bad, causing mold / mildew. We have yet to see this though and the humidifier is set at 7.
 
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Old 01-22-09, 07:05 PM
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Is the humidifier running all the time as well with the fan, or just when there is call for heat?

Is the water line tied to Hot or Cold?

Is the bypass damper open? (If you have one?)

Do you have an air exchanger/HRV system?
 
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Old 01-23-09, 08:33 AM
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It is my understanding that while the fan is on, the humidifier is running (page 7 of the manual). The other option is circ(ulate), but that is only has the fan on 35% of the day.

The water line is attached to the hot weater heater - so it has hot water going into the unit.

I don't think we have a bypass damper. I do know that there is an air intake valve it seems. I took four pictures in hopes that they will help out some more. (If you click on the images, you'll get larger images (I thought that might help to see the layout some).

On the basement 3 image, on the right side you should see a copper tubing that is wrapped once in a circle - this is the on going from the hot water heater into the humidifier.

The house - mostly carpeted (hardwood floors in a couple of the first floor rooms) is about 3,600 sq ft. The basement (unfinished) is about 1,800 sq ft.
 
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Old 01-23-09, 08:58 AM
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Ok, that's why you are having problem.... A fan powered unit don't work at it's full capacity when it's mounted on the return duct.

The hot water helps some what, but not enough to get where you want o be at..

I'd suggest to have a bypass unit put in, and you should see a change.

Also, I see that you don't have the furnace intake tied to the outdoors, so it's pulling in the house air, and the two metal pipes from the outdoors is may be the factor your home is dry.. How old is the house?
 
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Old 01-23-09, 09:56 AM
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I'll pass this along (re: a bypass unit) and see what can be done (it might take a few days since the weekend). With this bypass unit, I am guessing that that means the air is not going through the PureAir filter then into the heater and then into the house? We were thinking the problem might be / have been because the air from the humidifier is going into the furnace (to heat up) but while this process is happening, the humidity is being removed.

The house was built in 2000 / 2001 I believe, maybe 1999 - around there I would say.

A bypass unit - I know I can probably search for them on the Internet, but a lot of time searches just come up with plain articles with GoogleAdsense. Do you have any information on a bypass unit? Or if they are somewhat easy to install?

Thanks again for all the help!
 
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Old 01-23-09, 11:11 AM
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Just a bit more information (ended up calling the dealer as well since I noticed by pass humidifiers on the Lennox website)... He said he installed the power humidifier since we have a variable speed furnace. He said that with this variable speed furnace, a bypass (or bypass humidifier) is not recommended - the air / vaccuum that is created would not be sufficient to handle the bypass humidifier.

He is recommending to install another power humidifier. I asked if this was done on other homes and he replied that he had done it to another house near our location.
 
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Old 01-23-09, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Corey Bryant View Post
He said he installed the power humidifier since we have a variable speed furnace. He said that with this variable speed furnace, a bypass (or bypass humidifier) is not recommended - the air / vaccuum that is created would not be sufficient to handle the bypass humidifier..
What!?

I've never heard of this before!

I have a bypass on my variable speed, and many other people out there.....

Had mine 3 years, and no issues with it.. My parents has about 4k sq ft home, and they have no issues..

I'll post more later tonight.. Just on a quick lunch break now.
 

Last edited by Jay11J; 01-23-09 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 01-23-09, 03:24 PM
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Thanks Jay - the more information the better. Especially any links / information on the Lennox systems. I did verify again, the representative had installed the power humidifier because of the variable speed furnace. He also said that if we opted for a bypass humidifier, he might ask that we sign a waiver (indicating he did not recommend it and any potential problems - sorry he rattled off so many that I cannot remember them all now).
 
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Old 01-23-09, 09:25 PM
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I have no backing on this, but if you look at the install manuals of any bypass unit, there is nothing in there saying you can't install bypass unit on variable speed unit.

It has no affect of the air flow.

Fan powered unit are best on supply duct since there is hot air to help with the water evaporation. With the unit on the return there is no hot air to help with the evaporation, so the cacpaity is cut down to almost half.
 
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Old 01-24-09, 10:11 AM
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Thanks again. We are going to take a look at the MERV16 filter and maybe see if we can put the hygrometer in the PureAir section - we were hoping to see if the humidity was higher there.

I might try to call Lennox directly as well to see what they recommend.
 
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Old 01-24-09, 11:47 AM
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or you can look at your furnace install manual, and I am sure you won't see anything saying not to install by pass units.


Let me know what Lennox says.
 
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Old 01-24-09, 02:41 PM
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Nothing in the brochure really spoke about a humidifier. I went back to look at the model, it is actually Elite® Series G61V High-Efficiency Gas Furnace.

On / about the last page of the product brochure actually shows the bypass humidifier installed.

Lennox seems to be closed on the weekends but I am curious now to see what they have to say. The hygrometer is sitting next to the unit and shows 34% humidity. I guess what really disappoints us is the lack of moisture. From speaking with the representative from Lennox, he made us to believe that if the humidifier was moved to manual, moisture would be on the windows when we woke up (since the chance for humidity would increase at night).

And of course, if you come across any more information - it will be much appreciated.

But at least I am armed with a bit more information about everything, thanks to you!
 
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Old 01-24-09, 06:54 PM
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Yeah, i was going ot say that they may be closed for the weekend.

But I went to the install manual of the furnace, and di not see anything.

The T-stat X4146 is not a valid number, Is it a two stage stat?
 
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Old 02-02-09, 09:34 AM
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Apologies for the late delay, had some medical problems unfortunately.

Yes, it is a two stage heater.

I called their toll free number this number, explained the situation to them, however it seems the toll-free number is for possible new customers. The Lennox representative also said she could not tell me the difference between the bypass and power humidifiers. She took the rest of my personal information and then referred me to the 972-497-5799 number and told me to ask for technical support. (Unfortunately, I did not get back to the Contact page on the Lennox website to review the numbers - I had their toll free number just memorized.)

Now, I will say he took the time to explain a lot and seemed to actually care. Now, I went back through all the posts for return / supply (parts).
Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Ok, that's why you are having problem.... A fan powered unit don't work at it's full capacity when it's mounted on the return duct.
I am guessing though they did not install the humidifier on the supply side due to constraints - I measured, probably about 12" on this side and the humidifier is about 16" high.
 
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Old 02-02-09, 10:12 AM
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Apologies for the late delay, had some medical problems unfortunately.
No need to apologies, and hope all is okay now with you?

Let me know what Lennox says about the bypass when you do get a chance to get in touch with tech support.
 
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Old 02-02-09, 10:24 AM
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Much better, thanks.

Basically they said no, there is no reason not to have a bypass but for the power humidifier to work properly it should be on the supply side. I think though you mentioned it looked more like the humidifier was on the return side.

I am thinking it was the size of the humidifier that prevented it from being installed on the supply side.
 
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Old 02-02-09, 10:13 PM
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yeah, if the supply side was small, they then moved it to the return side. (not ideal) so they should of put in the bypass unit instead..

I'd call the dealer back and ask for a bypass unit, adn tell them you talked to Lennox and says bypass can be used.
 
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Old 02-03-09, 09:12 AM
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Thanks - we are debating that now. The Lennox technician did say a power humidifier is better since it can control the humidity better but since it was not installed on the supply side, I think the salesman should have given us a choice. I am pretty certain that there was no talk on bypass / power humidifier and how that would be installed. The old humidifier was in the same place so we never had reason to question that before.
 
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Old 02-03-09, 01:49 PM
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Well I called Lennox back today just to verify the information (guess that comes from all my years calling tech support and getting a different answer). The tech did basically verify all the information and confirmed that a bypass humidifier would work. He said though the power one is best for this type of job.

He did suggest one thing I had not thought of - turn the humidifier off to see if the humidity stays at 29% or falls. That would at least help us see if the humidifier is putting any humidity into the air. Off to Home Sepot for one more hygrometer to make sure we have the same values and something to go on.
 
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Old 02-03-09, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Corey Bryant View Post
He said though the power one is best for this type of job.
I don't understand? How can this be the best if it was on the return?

Let me know what you get after you shut it off.
 
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Old 02-09-09, 06:00 PM
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Well comparing between the power humidifier and the bypass humidifier.

The technician did come back out though and replaced the automatic humidistat with a mechanical one. Over the weekend, the humidity did get up to 33% - the highest that we have seen it. The technician that came out - he said that chances were pretty good that we would never see the humidity over 30%.

The salesman (different guy) quoted $650 to install another power humidifier - I found some of the humidifiers online for $169.00 but I know my limitations, we could never install it ourselves.

We are thinking that this is about is good as it might get. I am just surprised though that people have to settle for this here - I would imagine Lennox has a high customer base in the area
 
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Old 02-09-09, 08:13 PM
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I perfer the the automatic over the manual one.

Why don't you ask for a by pass unit and be done with?

Another powered unit is not going to do any better than what you got now.
 
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Old 02-11-09, 10:17 AM
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We asked for one, but he wanted around $400 to install it. We are waiting / hoping though the mechanical humidistat that will work.

Either that, r buy a bypass unit online and install it ourselves if we get brave enough
 
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Old 02-11-09, 09:04 PM
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I hate to say this... But, it looks like the dealer don't want to "Take care of you", if they want to sell you a new unit full price where you were not happy with the first unit in the first place. Company I used to work for took care of the customer and did not charge them till they were happy.
 
 

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