Whole House Humidifier-Questions

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Old 12-13-10, 07:48 PM
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Whole House Humidifier-Questions

Im looking into getting a whole house humidifier for a forced air heating system in a 2500 sf house. From what I researched there are drum types and pass through. The problem with a pass through for me is that they all seem to require a floor drain, which I dont have. I do seem to have some type of pump which my oil burner drains into and then it has a tube going to my washer machine drain. I dont know if I can use this for the drain on a humidifier, I would guess that the drain flow on a humidifier would be too much.

The drum type doesnt require a drain, but from what I understand it would require more frequent cleaning. I have a water softener, so hopefully, I wont have too much build up.

My question is, what is the best whole house humidifier for my application?? I was looking at the desert spring 3200 which is about $225 or the Aprilaire 400 for about $200. I know Aprilaire is a god brand and it should be fine with my size home. I am confident I can install it myself. Can I possibly drain the pass through into that pump I mentioned, or could I run a longer drain line to the washer drain (would be about 12 feet and not a constant downward slope).

Thanks for the info...
 

Last edited by jmat1980; 12-13-10 at 08:26 PM.
  #2  
Old 12-13-10, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jmat1980 View Post
I do seem to have some type of pump which my oil burner drains into and then it has a tube going to my washer machine drain.
This pump runs in the winter, or just in the summer with the A/C? I am guessing it only runs in the summer.

I dont know if I can use this for the drain on a humidifier, I would guess that the drain flow on a humidifier would be too much.
You can use the pump if this is the same pump I'm think it is. Is the low voltage wire tied to this pump?

The drum type doesnt require a drain, but from what I understand it would require more frequent cleaning. I have a water softener, so hopefully, I wont have too much build up.
You could use this, but soft or no soft water, still need to clean it often since it has "standing water" in the tray, and that water does get yucky.

My question is, what is the best whole house humidifier for my application?? I was looking at the desert spring 3200 which is about $225 or the Aprilaire 400 for about $200.
I've seen mixed reviews on the Aprilaire 400, and I am not really sold on the dessert spring, and I've never seen such unit. Honeywell had this style (made by DS) and they no longer have it.. So I think they may of stopped it since it didn't do any good?
 
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Old 12-13-10, 09:01 PM
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After a little more research, I think I definately want to get a pass through humidifier rather than the drum...

Now, as for the floor drain, I attached a pic of the pump I have below...Im not sure if this is sufficient for the drain on the humidifier or if I should replace the pump, or simply have 2 pumps...How much drainage is there from a humidifier?? I would rather upgrade my pump or have 2 pumps than come home to one that quit on me and have a mess on my hands...The current pump has a transformer that plugs into a dedicated outlet near the burner..

Regarding the humidifier itself, Im looking at the Aprilair 600...any thoughts or other recomendations??


Thanks!!

 
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Old 12-14-10, 05:34 AM
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Looks like your pump is used for the A/C. I don't see any low voltage wire going to it to kill the equipment if the pump fails.

That pump should be able to handle it just fine, but if this pump don't have a cut off wire, then a new one should be used.
 
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Old 12-14-10, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Looks like your pump is used for the A/C. I don't see any low voltage wire going to it to kill the equipment if the pump fails.

That pump should be able to handle it just fine, but if this pump don't have a cut off wire, then a new one should be used.
When I took the picture of the pump I did notice 2 thin guage wires that came out of the side, but they were not connected to anything...i'm guessing these are my low voltage wires?? Where do they connect to on the hvac system??

Let me know if I understand this correctly...
The pump will have low voltage wires that connect to the hvac. The new humidifier will also connect to the hvac. If the pump fails, it will prevent the hvac system from cycling on, in turn preventing the humidifier from cycling on so that nothing will drain from it and I wont come home to a pool in my basement...

Am I understanding this correctly or am I missing something? Thanks for all the info...it's really a big help
 
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Old 12-14-10, 01:42 PM
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I'm in a similar situation with an old Kenmore Drum Style humidifier which isn't providing enough humidity in my home.
The bigger pumps are pass through as you mention and require a drain.
My Kenmore didn't appear to have a drain connected, but I don't see much water leaking either.

I didn't realize about the cleaning until recently and it was disgusting.

I'm looking into the pump solution myself so subscribing here.

I would need to go up 8ft across maybe 25ft and than down.

Fun!

-Mario
 
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Old 12-14-10, 03:13 PM
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Ok, I got a chance to take a few more pictures...

You can see in #1 below the two wires from the pump that are not connected. I assume these are the low voltage wires you mentioned in your last post that need to be connected the the HVAC system so that it will shut down if the pump fails...

Photo 2 & 3 Show where the thermostat wiring is. I assume this is where the new humidifier will be wired to.

Photo #4 is additional wiring for the burner...I dont know what I have to connect here...

Photo # 5 shows where I intend on mounting the Humidifier on the return and routing it to the supply. The drain wire will go between the return and supply into a tee for the existing A/C drain into the pump.

I want to wire the humidifier so that it turns on only when the heat kicks on, not the fan. Im just not sure how to hook it up. Also, what is your recomendation on the pump I have?? Should I just get a new one to handle both the A/C and Humidifier or should I hook the existing one to low voltage and tap into it??
Thanks again for your help. Im just awaiting your response before I order the humidifier and then I will post an update with install photos. This forum is great and the advise we get here is priceless!!

#1


#2

#3


#4


#5
 
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Old 12-14-10, 05:49 PM
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Yes, those two wires on the pump is the cut off. I'd suggest hooking that between R and red wire going up to the t-stat.

What model is the furnace? (it's on the silver sticker next to the burner) I'll see if we can wire up the humidifier to the furnace and that will control it.

As for the placement, the humidifier on the return is good, but the bypass duct, I'd go up higher since the A/C coil may be behind this spot. I'd place it where the pink sticker is, or underside the main duct.

The pump you got will do fine.
 
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Old 12-14-10, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Yes, those two wires on the pump is the cut off. I'd suggest hooking that between R and red wire going up to the t-stat.
Im a little confused here...there are two wires on the pump...One goes to the "R" terminal, the second wire goes to ?? Also, I assume it doesnt matter which wire from the pump goes where, correct?


Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
What model is the furnace? (it's on the silver sticker next to the burner) I'll see if we can wire up the humidifier to the furnace and that will control it.
The model is Lennox 023Q5-140/154-3C

Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
As for the placement, the humidifier on the return is good, but the bypass duct, I'd go up higher since the A/C coil may be behind this spot. I'd place it where the pink sticker is, or underside the main duct.
Ok, so you mean place the bypass duct on the slanted part??
 
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Old 12-14-10, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jmat1980 View Post
Im a little confused here...there are two wires on the pump...One goes to the "R" terminal, the second wire goes to ??
Maybe I should of said this.. Run a new 2-wire t-stat wire between the pump and the control board.

Hook up the two wires to the pump. Then undo the red wire from R and tie that to one of the wire. The other wire then to R.. Now the pump will break the power to the t-stat if the pump fails.

Also, I assume it doesnt matter which wire from the pump goes where, correct?
Correct.



The model is Lennox 023Q5-140/154-3C
Wow, you got LOTS of heat.. Must be a very large home you have?

this furnace has a tap to turn on the humidifier, and will need a transformer for the humidifier.



Ok, so you mean place the bypass duct on the slanted part??
Yes, or over to the left in the photo.
 
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Old 12-14-10, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Maybe I should of said this.. Run a new 2-wire t-stat wire between the pump and the control board.

Hook up the two wires to the pump. Then undo the red wire from R and tie that to one of the wire. The other wire then to R.. Now the pump will break the power to the t-stat if the pump fails.


Ok, got it...2 wires connect to both wires on the pump, and on the other end, one wire to red, one to "R" terminal..






Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Wow, you got LOTS of heat.. Must be a very large home you have?
Funny you say that, cause my house always feels cold. Its about 2500 sq ft and built in 2001. I only have one zone which sux...

Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
this furnace has a tap to turn on the humidifier, and will need a transformer for the humidifier.
Ok, the transformer will be powered from 110v...I looked up the aprilaire transformer (part 4010) and there are two wires, white and black. where will the transformer connect to the furnace? (bear with me, this is my first time even seeing the wiring inside my furnace) what other connections will need to be made?
 
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Old 12-14-10, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jmat1980 View Post
Ok, got it...2 wires connect to both wires on the pump, and on the other end, one wire to red, one to "R" terminal..
Correct.


Funny you say that, cause my house always feels cold. Its about 2500 sq ft and built in 2001. I only have one zone which sux...
An oversized furnace can make you feel cold cuz it runs short cycle, long run time provides better comfort. What t-stat do you have?

and there are two wires, white and black. where will the transformer connect to the furnace?
Black will go to either HUM 120v or ACC. (not sure what board for sure since the manual shows a few type of board that could be in this furnace. Then white wire will go the neutral slot. You can use 1/4 female spade on the wire.
 
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Old 12-14-10, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
An oversized furnace can make you feel cold cuz it runs short cycle, long run time provides better comfort. What t-stat do you have?.
I didnt see a model # on it, but _I put a pic below...do you have a recomendation for a better one??

Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Black will go to either HUM 120v or ACC. (not sure what board for sure since the manual shows a few type of board that could be in this furnace. Then white wire will go the neutral slot. You can use 1/4 female spade on the wire.
I found the Neutral slot on the bottom right of the board, there are 5 nuetral spots...

As for ACC or HUM, I dont see HUM at all, but in the top right there is an ACC slot, but there is a wire connected there already. Can I just take that wire and connect it to a spade connecter with the wire for the transformer and then plug both back into that ACC slot? If it helps, the model # on the board is BCC3-2/150 SEC

Are there any other connections to be made to the furnace other than the transformer? I just ordered the humidifier so it should be here in a few days...

 

Last edited by jmat1980; 12-14-10 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 12-15-10, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jmat1980 View Post
I didnt see a model # on it, but _I put a pic below...do you have a recomendation for a better one??
This one is good, but if you want to upgrade to a nicer one, go for the VisionPro from Honeywell TH8320/TH8110. You can grasp the stat from below and pull it forward, then the model # is on the back of it.



As for ACC or HUM, I dont see HUM at all, but in the top right there is an ACC slot, but there is a wire connected there already.
What's hooked up to the ACC?

Are there any other connections to be made to the furnace other than the transformer? I just ordered the humidifier so it should be here in a few days...
Nope, just those two wires.
 
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Old 12-16-10, 05:13 PM
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I took a second look at the acc terminal andfollowed the wire that is plugged in there back....it looks like the wire is just capped and not connected to anything...

I should get the humidifier this week but will probably not get it installed until after xmas. I will post up pics of the install and will probably have more questions. Thanks for the help so far...

Merry Christmas!!
 
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Old 12-16-10, 08:58 PM
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Sounds good. Keep me posted once you get rolling again!

Take care, and Merry Christmas to you too!
 
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Old 01-02-11, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Correct.



Black will go to either HUM 120v or ACC. (not sure what board for sure since the manual shows a few type of board that could be in this furnace. Then white wire will go the neutral slot. You can use 1/4 female spade on the wire.
Jay,

Ive got the humidifier installed and im starting to wire it up. Ive located the ACC and Neutral terminals for the black/white wired on the transformer.

The opposite side of the transformer has two screw terminals labeled 10VA and 24v, from the wiring diagram it looks like one terminal will go to a yellow wire from the humidifier and the other to the "H" terminal on the humidistat, is that correct?

Also, the other yellow wire from the humidifier should go to the other "H" terminal on the humidistat? And it looks like it doesnt matter which yellow wire goes to the transformer or humidistat...

Other than that, I have the outdoor temp sensor going to the ODT terminals...and as far as I can tell, those are all the connections that need to be made??

Thanks,,,

I should have this thing up and running soon!!
 
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Old 01-02-11, 06:19 PM
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What model humidistat did you get?
 
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Old 01-02-11, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
What model humidistat did you get?
I have the Aprilaire 600 with the Digital Humidistat...

Automatic Digital Humidifier
 
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Old 01-02-11, 06:59 PM
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There are a few digital that Aprilaire has. Is #60 or #58?
 
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Old 01-02-11, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
There are a few digital that Aprilaire has. Is #60 or #58?
Ok, just ran down to the basement to take a look and I didnt see a model #...The manual for the humidistat that they sent says it is for model 60 and 62. I attached some photos below



 
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Old 01-02-11, 08:02 PM
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The low voltage to transformer and H is correct.

I take it you have the others hooked up? (R-C, W-G.. ect)
 
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Old 01-02-11, 09:51 PM
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Ok....
After you asked me for the model # of the humidistat, I found the booklet in the bottom of the box, under the styrofoam. The humidistat instructions had the wiring instructions much more detailed than the installation diagram. I simply followed the book (and Jay) and wired the humidistat as follows

Transformer:
Black-ACC on Furnace
White-Neutral on furnace

24v side
1 wire to humidifier solenoid
1 wire to H terminal on Humidistat

HUMIDIFIER:
Yellow 1-24v side of transformer
Yellow 2-H terminal on Humidistat

HUMIDISTAT:
R to R on furnace
C to C on furnace
G to G on furnace (Note, G from thermostat must be removed from furnace terminal)
GF to green wire originally on furnace G terminal
W to W on furnace

Everything seems to be working well. I had a small leak at a compression fitting that I unhooked and added some more teflon tape...seems all good now. I have added ALOT of photos from the install process below...hopefully some of them will help the next person who has questions. Jay, if you see anything wrong with what I did, please let me know. Thanks for all your help!!



















 
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Old 01-02-11, 09:54 PM
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Continuation of install photos















 
  #25  
Old 01-02-11, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jmat1980 View Post

G to G on furnace (Note, G from thermostat must be removed from furnace terminal)
GF to green wire originally on furnace G terminal
ON the G to G, did you tie the T-stat's G to the humidistat?

Other than that, you did good for a rookie.
 
  #26  
Old 01-03-11, 08:43 AM
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I connected the wire that was originally connected to the furnace G (which comes from the T Stat) to the GF on the humidistat...

Everything seems to be working ok, when the heat kicks on, the humidifier turns on and starts running. I have the blower activation switch set to off so that the humidifier only works with the heat on, not the fan. Ill give it a week or so and see how it is. I have it set on 5 and im at about 30%
 
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Old 01-03-11, 10:28 AM
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No, The G wire from the t-stat goes to G on the humidistat. Gf from humidistat goes to G on the furnace.
 
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Old 01-03-11, 03:24 PM
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Im pretty sure thats what I did...ill double check though.
 
 

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