Aprilaire 600 with Williamson CLB-105 furnace

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Old 11-18-12, 12:48 PM
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Question Aprilaire 600 with Williamson CLB-105 furnace

Hi Everyone,

Learned a good bunch from the forum in the past, but it's come time to register and ask a question.

I'm looking to install an Aprilaire 600 attached to a Williamson CLB-105 and have some wiring question. The furnace is oil fired, so the W terminal comes from the burner, then on the furnace I have terminals for C Y G R. Testing C and R with a multimeter is giving me a constant 24VAC without the furnace running. Do I need the transformer? I've seen other posts saying give it a shot, and if you have cycling issues use the transformer, or just use the transformer to keep the load off of the furnace's transformer. I'll keep searching to see if there is a best practice out there, but I figure I'll post anyways.

Thanks!
Tom
 
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Old 11-19-12, 06:20 AM
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That's a newer furnace, and You may have either HUM or EAC hook up on it.. Can you share the wire digram for your furnace?
 
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Old 11-19-12, 06:33 AM
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I didn't see a HUM hookup, but I didn't look for an EAC terminal. Attached (if I do it right) is a picture of the diagram, and an export for the PDF version of the manual.

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Thank you sir!
 
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Old 11-19-12, 02:07 PM
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Did the install using the transformer in the furnace. When I put the unit in test mode I get an R1 blinking code. I'll check my voltages, the google is only talking about a missing outdoor sensor or a piece in the solenoid (orfice) missing.
 
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Old 11-19-12, 04:01 PM
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Did you wire up the outdoor sensor, or did you add the "Manual" tab in place?
 
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Old 11-19-12, 04:56 PM
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Outdoor sensor is in, I get the same result in manual. No water was coming out when it test mode (verified the water line worked). At that point I reseated the wires in the control panel, same results. The furnace was not running at this point, I flipped the blower activation switch to ON, put the control pane in test mode, fan turned on, solenoid turned on, and water came out.

My only though here is this - the R terminal from the furnace is not the same R that my thermostat is connected to - it has a line from the oil burner going to Rh on the thermostat If you look at the wiring diagram, they show the R terminal going to Rc on the thermostat for cooling (which I do not have). I could wire in the transformer and see if it fixes the problem. Not really sure if I want the humidifier to cycle the fan randomly to check the air (not sure of the schedule). Hopefully this made sense!
 
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Old 11-19-12, 05:05 PM
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R is "Hot", so it don't matter if it's Rh or Rc (There's a jumper between the two.)

Is the display on all the time on the humidistat?

Do you have W wired up to W?
 
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Old 11-19-12, 05:16 PM
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Wasn't sure if there was a difference between the heat/cool side of things. Would using R from the burner be worth a shot rather than R from the furnace wiring block?

W is connected. I'll go triple check.

Thanks for the help!

*EDIT - forgot to say the display on the panel is on and lit up.
 
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Old 11-19-12, 05:28 PM
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Scratch that Rh idea - just checked that terminal with the meter and it's not showing any voltage with the furnace not running.
 
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Old 11-19-12, 05:30 PM
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??? Rh at the stat, or at the furnace itself? R is always "hot"

The diagram is blury for me on this page when I blow it up, can you email it to me at jayamarking at yahoo dot com
 
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Old 11-19-12, 05:36 PM
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The Rh terminal on the burner (labeled T). Emailing shortly.
 
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Old 11-19-12, 06:14 PM
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Ok, one of the "T" will be hot all times, so check to see witch one is hot.. (Take a meter read one to and other probe to ground.) When find out what T is hot, then wire that to W at the humidistat.

R from humidistat wired to R at the block.
 
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Old 11-19-12, 07:04 PM
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Ok, did that, and no change. Here's some more info, when the blower activation switch is on, and I go to test mode, after a min or so I still get a blinking R1. I'm not sure if this is normal or not.

Calling it a day for now and will go over everything again tomorrow.Might just try the transformer for the heck of it. At least everything else with the install went well!

Thanks for all the help again!
 
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Old 11-19-12, 07:16 PM
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Did you check to make sure the oriface is in place?

I looked at the manual, and I am not seeing anything on R1 code?


 
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Old 11-20-12, 04:25 AM
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I don't remember seeing the orifice when I connected the water line, so I'll take a look to see if its in there (or laying on the ground somewhere, supposed to be yellow for this model from what I see). Its odd though that water comes out with blower activation set to ON, but when OFF no water in test mode.

if its not r1, perhaps its rl? Either way, neither code gets me much info online. The r1 error starts blinking after about a min in test mode, whether the blower activation switch is on or off.

Its a new day here, so we'll see what I can figure out! Hopefully its not something silly like a loose wire.
 
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Old 11-20-12, 04:43 AM
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No orifice - can't find it anywhere either. Doesn't seem to be a regularly supplied part in the home stores, so I'll get one ordered unless I can find a dealer in the area. Hopefully the dog didn't think it was a treat and ate it!
 
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Old 11-20-12, 05:52 AM
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Hope the dog didn't eat it!

If that don't fix the issue, I think we may have to put a relay between the W and burner's T. You did check the T to be sure that was hot all the time right, and wired to W at the humidistat?
 
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Old 11-20-12, 07:39 AM
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Well I ordered the orifice online - $3 for it, plus $25 overnight :)

So I just checked again, coming off of the two T's on the burner, neither of the terminals are hot all the time. I thought yesterday I found one of them was. I'll go check again, but anywho I took 2 pictures of the diagrams on the burner, so perhaps it will help.

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Old 11-20-12, 08:28 AM
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Ok, after checking it 3 times, furnace running and furnace idle, I am not getting 24vac coming from the T or 3/T on the burner. I'm confused at this point! At this point I'm going to go draw out a diagram of how its wired.
 
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Old 11-20-12, 10:28 AM
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Here's my poor poor attempt at drawing the wiring diagram. I tried to use Visio - what do you guys use?

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Old 11-20-12, 01:20 PM
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First thing, the C wire going to Rc on the stat needs to come off!! Rc should be wired to R on the furnace.

I still don't understand why you are not getting steady power on the T's on the burner..... I will have to do some digging when I get home tonight from work.
 
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Old 11-20-12, 02:09 PM
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Thumbs up

Great catch - that actually an error on my part - it IS connected to R!
 
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Old 11-20-12, 06:18 PM
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Looks like your solenoid valve is wired wrong.. one side goes to H like you already have.. the other side should eb going to C, not R.
 
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Old 11-21-12, 09:18 AM
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Hi Jay,

I gave your recommendation a shot, no change. This morning the orifice came in, so I put that in, no change. At this point I decided it wouldn't hurt to wire in the transformer - STILL no change, I had the same behaviors - with blower activation set to ON, water would come out in test mode, but then blink R1, with the switch set to OFF I would get no water, followed by R1. Putting it in manual mode didn't change a thing either. The manual does say when in test mode for over a min, the solenoid will close and then start flashing, so I think the R1 error might be normal (anyone care to try this?).

Here's what I'm pondering. In all the wiring diagrams from Aprilaire, they show the furnace's R terminal going to R on the thermostat and humidistat. In my setup R from the furnace is only going to the humidistat - one of the T terminals is going to Rh on my thermostat (there is no jumper on the thermostat). And like you've asked before, the white wire going from the burner to the humidistat does NOT have 24v on it constantly.
 
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Old 11-21-12, 10:43 AM
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Here's some more information. In the included wiring diagram, it also showed an optional line going from the furnace's C to the thermostat - which I did not have hooked up. Since I had an extra wire I hooked it up. Checking votage of the white wire coming from the burner - I had 42VAC?? This didn't solve my issue either. I have since remove the C wire from my thermostat since 42V doesn't sound right.

Another note when I turn on the blower activation switch, run the furnace, and then put the humidistat into test mode, it almost sounds like another set of fans is turning on or the speed of the fan is changing.
 
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Old 11-21-12, 07:05 PM
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No issues with the heat cycling, works as it always has. I get something like 3v on occasion on the T when the furnace is idle. The only time I got more than that is when I hooked up C to my thermostat - I was getting 42v at the T. When I saw that, I disconnected the transformer thinking something got wired wrong, but the furnace still turned on without issue when I turned up the thermostat - but I had the same result with the humidistat. I guess I'll reach out to Aprilaire and see what it takes to get a replacement humidistat.

Edit - not sure how my message got time stamped 10min ago. Hopefully this edit changes it.
 
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Old 11-21-12, 07:07 PM
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I am thinking you have a bad humidistat.

Are you still not getting steady 24v on T and T at the burner? Does it cycle when the stat calls for heat?
 
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Old 11-21-12, 07:17 PM
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Keep me posted on this... Where did you buy this from?

I think we may have to use the A50 relay.
 
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Old 11-22-12, 09:51 AM
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Amazon.com - purchased it earlier in the year, never got around to installing it. I did order the relay just because I'm not getting 24v from either T on the burner. Any thoughts on why I would get 42v on the white T when I hook up C to my thermostat?
 
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Old 11-23-12, 06:20 AM
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I think the reading was you were reading from two transformer..
 
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Old 11-28-12, 07:12 PM
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So the relay came in today, I wired it up, but when the fan kicked on the solenoid didn't do a dang thing - at least I'm getting 24v at the H's on the humidistat now. If I flip it into blower activation mode, the solenoid works. I wrapped the wire twice around the relay, but I guess there isn't enough juice? Today I used the 24v power from the furnace, tomorrow after work I'll try wiring it into the 24v transformer that came with the Aprilaire.

I'm thinking one alternative will be to take out the Green/Yellow from the humidistat and see how things operate with the blower activation mode on. Just afraid it would open the relay ever hour (after not running) and waste water.

I did reach out to Aprilaire about this issue and they just told me to reach out to a dealer, BUT they did tell me the flashing R1 is fine - that just means the firmware on the humidistat is Rev1.
 
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Old 11-28-12, 07:46 PM
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You have the relay on the heat speed wire?? Your blower may have multi speed, and one wire is the cooling speed, and other is heat.
 
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Old 11-29-12, 03:02 PM
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I had the relay on the common wire - per the docs. I tried it on the Med-Hi wire, since that is what heat runs, and I had the same results. Got my flu shot yesterday, and of course today I feel like I have the flu, so it's off to retire on the couch - I have the whole weekend to tinker around!
 
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Old 11-29-12, 06:05 PM
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Ok, that is odd that the rela worked on Fan ON, but not in heat???
 
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Old 12-01-12, 05:56 AM
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Ok - well documentation is your best friend. Apparently the store I purchased the relay from said this was an AprilAire/GeneralAire a50 relay, but the docs that came with it said GeneralAire (same parent company from what I can tell). The wiring diagrams are completely different than the one I just downloaded from AprilAire.
Here's is the aprilaire doc - https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...I1UyxC-5bawcPw
(sorry - the direct FTP download doesn't work).

In the diagram, they show some jumpers going from R to W/G and C to Gf. The issue here is that on my humidistat I have a terminal for W and a terminal for G - jumper them both to R? I can tell you jumping R to only W doesn't do a thing.

I'm searching for more updated docs / forum posts.
 
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Old 12-01-12, 06:07 AM
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Yes, adding jumper is one way to do it, and that is something I don't do much... But if you did the jumpers, and it still didn't work, then you may very well have a bad humidistat.
 
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Old 12-01-12, 10:35 AM
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Wink

I GOT IT WORKING!!!

So I wired it with the 24v transformer (used furnace provided power before) like this:

(each A50 relay listed is just 1 wire from the relay)
A50 relay --> 24v transformer --> humidistat
A50 relay --> solenoid --> humidistat

The jumpers are still there for W and Gf (although I'm not really sure what that is doing for me unless it's something internal to the humidistat since it doesn't go back to my furnace).

I'll redo my wiring diagram at some point once I run it for a day or two and make sure it doesn't blow up or flood my basement and so I'm not creating some tear in space/time :)

Thanks!
 
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Old 12-01-12, 12:40 PM
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You can leave the jumpers.. Power to W will tell the humidistat that there's is call of heat to turn it on..
 
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