Black powder rifle


  #1  
Old 12-07-03, 06:59 AM
Gordy Gonyo
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Smile Black powder rifle

I would like to get a black powder rifle for deer hunting but I need advice on what brand and features to look for. I don,t want to be stuck for a part down the road if the maker goes out of bizz. Thanks for any tips and advice. - Gordy Gonyo.
 
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Old 12-07-03, 12:35 PM
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Smile Choices so many Choices

Hi Gordy.

Perhaps this is the right way to find the 50 cal of your dreams & then again because there are so many designs it could be the 2nd thing to do.

I have walked up to check the Mod 700 Remington Bolt action rifle & see if the bolt was out so we could clear the line. Oops it's an inline 50 cal muzzele loader with a 3x9 Leoupold scope on top.

Today you have so many choices in BlackPowder guns it's not easy to find the right one for you right off. Do you want to shoot a round ball, Maxi ball (Large lead bullet) or a Sabot (Say-Bo) with a 300 grain down to a 180 grain modern jacketed bullet. Each requires a different barrel twist rate.

I will spend more on a Scope, than many will spend on their whole Rifle & scope together, so even though I understand & can even compete with Black powder Rifles. I'm very happy I don't have to use the Black Powder weapons for Hunting or self defense.

We do have some great shooters who do know how to guide you into the right tool, however you must work to understand what's out there, & just what you want this rifle to do for you.

This help by you will allow the Black Powder shooter to pin point the right style, twist, sights etc. Beacause NC allows it, I would buy the Remington inline 50 with a 2x7 scope & use the Horaday 44 cal 265 grain soft point @ just over 2000 feet per second.

Another may want a flint lock that shoots only round 50cal balls with the traditional look and feel of a rifle made 200 years ago. BTW I have one right now & it was made by hand, my Father in law (Rest in Peace) built it himself in the 70s & I can shoot a cloverleaf of 3 off hand at 50 yards with this peice of art. I just get off on doubles at 600 & 1000 yards a lot more

Take your time & when you find it, you will feel it's the one right away. Ask lot's of questions & see if you can find some black powder shooters who will let you try some Rifles. The Black Powder bunch, is one of the friendliest bunch's I have ever met.
 
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Old 12-08-03, 03:12 PM
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Yeah, I'm one of those black powder guys, and I'm a real friendly dude. There seems to be a couple of schools forming in this area. The first, with guys like me, use old timey smoke poles, sleep in lodges (pilgrims call 'em teepees), and attend rendesvouzes (I broke my spell-checker on that one) where like minded people of all shapes and sizes camp and trade and shoot and party and throw sharp objects. Sometimes cannons are fired and anvils are shot in the air. The flint guys tease the percussion crowd about their use of modern inventions, but nobody gets hurt much.

Then theres another, newer group. which is fond of the in-line guns with high power scopes, synthetic stocks and such. These guys appear to be stretching the limits of muzzle loading as far as possible, so as to still be legally qualified to hunt during special muzzle loading seasons. I've got nothing against them, but occasionally I'll dish out a little barb, in the same spirit of fun as the flint boys do to the percussionists.

I'd be doin' the new fangled stuff myself, if time and money permitted, but it don't. I've used up most of my time, and I want to spend what's left further developing what I've already started as opposed to starting up something that's brand new to me.
 
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Old 12-08-03, 03:58 PM
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What does Gordy need?

With my Recurve bare bow & my M14 with everyone else shooting the M16 in the National Match Course, I'm abit old fashioned myself.

I know enough to load a ball & patch in my Flint gun, but with so many Smoke poles & state Regs on what you can & cannot hunt with, I am not the one to advise Gordy.

SKIP what do you need to know from Gordy to help him chose the right gun? State Regs where you will hunt is a biggie. Game & range would be next I would think. SKIP perhaps you would like to take it from here.
 
  #5  
Old 12-08-03, 06:42 PM
Gordy Gonyo
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Thanks Marturo, is there a difference between black powder and muzzleloaders? I want to use mine for deer hunting, and I am not one to see an animal suffer so I would like an accurate gun with plenty of zip - if you know what I mean - Thanks a million - Gordy.
 
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Old 12-09-03, 10:12 AM
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is there a difference between black powder and muzzleloaders?

Yes and no. Although the terms are often used interchangeably, a muzzleloader is a weapon that is loaded from the muzzle (as opposed to the breech) while black powder is the propellant that is the FIRST component that is loaded. (As you get into this sport, you may at times be part of a scenario where the trigger is squeezed, the cap (or powder in the pan) fires, but nothing else happens. Others around you will not be able to resist the urge to tell you "powder first", since it is easy to forget the powder if you're busy talking and don't have a very fixed regimen for loading.) So, instead of taking a complete store-bought round and inserting it into the breech, muzzleloading involves the in-place construction of a round my inserting its components, one at a time, into the muzzle.

Blackpowder weapons are more then adequate for white-tailed deer. Two seasons ago, my friend Charlie shot an 8 pointer, that field dressed around 150, with a 45 caliber Hawkins, at 200 yards. I think he shoots 90 grains (of Triple f), but I can't remember for sure. I don't know what the laws are in NY, but in MO the muzzleloader must be .40 caliber or larger and capable of firing only a single projectile at one discharge; "in-lines" and scopes are allowed. I'll write some more on this later - gotta go.
 
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Old 12-09-03, 02:17 PM
Gordy Gonyo
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Thanks Skip, I am interested in learning the different styles and actions, bolt actions etc. - I would like to buy a keeper the first time out. I appreciate the help - Gordy. Talk to you later.
 
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Old 12-09-03, 02:45 PM
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continued

Back again.

If your main interest is whitetail hunting, and you don't think you'll ever take part in re-enacting, or living history, or primitive sport, then probably one of the in-line models would be your best choice. You will most likely hunt with sabots, which prefer a faster twist than round balls. You will need to develop an optimum load, which varies from gun to gun. Powder is another choice to make - real black powder (like Goex) or synthetic (like Pyrodex). I don't want to break into a commercial here, but don't let the amount of cleaning affect your choice of propellant. All muzzleloaders need to be thoroughly cleaned after each use. This may seem intimidating at first, and has turned more than one person away from the sport, but after a few times the task becomes less daunting and even enjoyable. Find some people in your area that you can talk to at length. Each will have different opinions, but each will also have useful information, such as recipes for Moose Juice and Bear Grease.

I'll be more than happy to answer any of your questions (you can probably tell that I like to talk), but I'd prefer to do it as you develop them, rather than to flood you with reams of info all at one time.
 
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Old 12-09-03, 03:06 PM
Gordy Gonyo
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Thanks Skip, is there any type of action that is best - like bolt action? What brand names are good, and will be around for a while? Also what kind of sights or scope work well on these guns? - Gordy.
 
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Old 12-11-03, 09:43 AM
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Smile Best action, brand & scope

Hi Gordy

I can help out there. Remington & Knight both make a great Bolt action inline with a synthetic stock. You can't go wrong with a Leupold or Buris Scope, they make ones that are for Black powder use, like a 2x7 or a 3x9 fit the bill .

Do you plan on using real Black Powder or Pyrodex? Some things to remember. It is called an Inline because the primer cap is held in place & fired under the bolt like a Modern centerfire rifle.

Both the side hammer & inline must be loaded with powder & Projectile from the muzzle with a ram rod. So even if our ForeFathers had inlines they are one shot one load.

To some their is great beauty in the design of wood & metal in the traditional looking Muzzle loader. Every Remingtom I have owned has fit me like a custom job & everyone feels like that with some brand. So when I say I would get the Remington that only means I would feel more comfortable & perhaps even gain an advantage if all Ell broke lose on a Deer hunt.

The scopes I named are not cheap & I have 2 Redfields now out of Business & taken over, both scopes will focus in strange and unworkable ways. I spent $175.00 & both won't hunt. I spent just around $400 for a Leupold Compact 3 x 9 with the factory setting the Focus at 50 yards for free. What a perfect little scope any any kind of weather.

If you have a Gun store you can go to & handle the different guns It would help you on your choice. Remember no matter what type you choose inline with red dot sights, or an old tyme flint lock you only get one shot to bag the Deer.
 

Last edited by marturo; 02-17-04 at 04:55 PM.
  #11  
Old 12-12-03, 06:31 PM
Gordy Gonyo
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Thans Marturo, I am looking at one my buddy says is good, It is made by New Engand Firearms - the "Huntsmsan". Any opinions? Cheers - Gordy.
 
  #12  
Old 12-15-03, 04:27 PM
ee3
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I have been shooting a Hawkins(richland) for many years with no problems.if you ever need to hit,pry,lift,poke,drop,throw,it will take it.nothing to hurt.just dont get the powder wet!!!
 
  #13  
Old 12-15-03, 04:42 PM
Gordy Gonyo
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Thanks eeg, one thing I forgot to ask about is the fact that I shoot lefty, will this make a big difference in the gun I buy? Thanks for all of the replies, I apreciate it - Gordy.
 
  #14  
Old 12-20-03, 04:53 PM
ee3
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not if you buy a left handed model!!!
 
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Old 02-15-04, 10:31 PM
spliff
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i have always went old school, i own a 50 cal. hawkins, ball and caps for close to 25 years and use it all the time. i have never had to replace a single part and love it to death. if you consider buying one then check down the barrel and make sure it has good rifeling. the better the rifeling the more accurate your shot will be. Good luck on your search.
 
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Old 09-15-04, 06:13 AM
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I have a Remington model 700. Shot an 8 point 168# buck 2 years ago and a 120# doe last December with it. It's fun hunting with a muzzleloader! The buck was about 60 yards away and the doe was about the same distance. When shooting at the buck the first cap didn't go off and the second cap didn't until the second attempt! I have since switched to a different size cap. I don't know if I would buy another Remington or not. Thompson Center I believe makes a good one, there made in New Hampshire I think.
 
  #17  
Old 09-15-04, 08:59 AM
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I've got a T/C Hawkins, 50 caliber. It was my good friend's gun, and when he got killed in '85 I bought it from his dad. The first thing I did was put on a Hot Shot nipple. I'm still using the same one today, and it's as good as new.

I shoot in competition using patched round balls (.495 dia for a tight fit), and usually with 60 grains of FFF. When hunting, I use T/C sabots and 90 grains. A couple of years ago I got a brand new (for $50, I couldn't pass it up) CVA 50 cal Hawkins, with synthetic stock, which I started to use for hunting, so that I wouldn't have to constantly adjust my sights back and forth between competition and hunting, and so that I wouldn't mess up the finish on my T/C. I put fire sights on it (orange and green fiber optics), and on my first hunt with it I got a deer at about 40 - 50 yards running at full speed (and, boy! was I tired). Led it like a bird and poked a hole through its heart and both lungs.

My friend Charlie has a T/C Hawkins, 45 cal, and a couple of years ago shot a real nice buck, using a patched round ball, at 200 yards. (We stepped it off at 220 paces, and the next day measured with a Bushnell rangefinder.)

I can still remember vividly the first deer I got with my Hawkins. About 40 yards out from my tree stand, it slammed into the dirt and never twitched. Sweet.
 
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Old 09-30-05, 04:17 PM
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Go with the Thompson Contender Omega. Its a better gun in my opinion than its expensive brother the Encore. Like another poster said, go with a high end scope.
 
 

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