What type of ants are these?


  #1  
Old 06-01-20, 11:22 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 30
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
What type of ants are these?

Hello, can anyone tell what type of ants have overrun my property? See attached picture. I put a penny there for scale. They are very tiny. I thought carpenter ants are larger but now that I look at the pics enlarged, they do look like carpenter ants. I just didn't think carpenter ants are that tiny.
They have nests EVERWHERE around my house. See the pic. In just on sq ft I see a dozen holes in the ground.
Are these carpenter ants and am I doomed?
 
Attached Images   

Last edited by alex_t; 06-01-20 at 11:45 PM.
  #2  
Old 06-02-20, 05:20 AM
P
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 27,592
Received 2,144 Upvotes on 1,920 Posts
Insects vary by location. It would help to know where you are located.
 
  #3  
Old 06-02-20, 05:27 AM
P
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1,915
Received 109 Upvotes on 102 Posts
The pics don't have enough detail to properly ID with, but my sense is that these aren't carpenter ants.
Once they are properly ID'd then we will know if they present undesirable issues. It's possible that even though there are a lot of them, they may not be an issue to worry about.

Take some specimens to your local county agricultural extension office. I've found them to be a source of objective, unbiased information.

What state/country are you in?
 
  #4  
Old 06-02-20, 01:38 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 30
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
Hello, thanks so much for reply. I'm in Los Angeles. Because of corona difficult to go to extension office. Do you think possible at all to do accurate ID by picture?
 
  #5  
Old 06-02-20, 04:01 PM
P
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 27,592
Received 2,144 Upvotes on 1,920 Posts
It would be easier for you to simply identify the ants yourself. Look up ant identification online and go through the process of identifying your ants.
 
  #6  
Old 06-03-20, 06:04 AM
P
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1,915
Received 109 Upvotes on 102 Posts
Alex, good point about the offices being closed;
Here is a guide to ant ID. Your ants are definitely ants and not termites so don't dwell on that distinction. Probably the most used physical feature in ant ID is the "pedicel" and the "node(s)" on the pedicel. One node or two nodes combined with a few other visible features will help a lot.

Ant bodies are 3 segmented: Head, thorax (middle part), abdomen (last part). The pedicel is the small piece that connects the thorax and abdomen. On the pedicel are one or two nodes. Use the pedicel and nodes to narrow down the choices first, then go with color, size/length, etc. Keep us posted. Come back with questions as needed.

https://www.domyown.com/ant-identifi...ide-a-460.html



 
  #7  
Old 06-03-20, 09:20 AM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 30
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
HI PAbugman, thanks so much for your help. I found this site last night Ant identification: Preparing ants for identification and per its recommendation, I put some ants in bag and froze them. I will report back once I find the time to inspect. I guess I have to go buy a lens. But the link you provide seems very good also.
 
PAbugman voted this post useful.
  #8  
Old 06-03-20, 11:53 AM
P
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 27,592
Received 2,144 Upvotes on 1,920 Posts
Unless you have macro photography equipment it's difficult to post a picture online that is good enough for identification. Having the online guide open and a small microscope or loupe to look at the ants first hand will help. I use this pocket microscope ($13 Amazon) for really small insects and a 10x jewelers loupe or magnifying glass for larger insects when I need to see detail.

My guess is you have some type of what I call "sugar ants". Not particularly harmful (they won't eat the wood framing of your house) but they can be darn annoying and very good at getting into food. I would look into bait style ant treatments that the workers can carry back to the nest and kill the queen. It may take a little while to see results but it's an effective way to kill the colony.
 
  #9  
Old 07-09-20, 01:51 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 30
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
better pics

Hello
I finally managed to get some half decent pics. Never thought it would be this hard to photograph ants. Used Nikon macro lens.
Does this give better idea on what kind of ants I have? The ruler is in millimetres (not inches).


This one has wings. Very rare.Or maybe I'm wrong and it's not an ant.









 
  #10  
Old 07-09-20, 01:58 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 30
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
carpenter ants?

Hi @PAbugman I posted some better pics above. I used the ant identification guide you provided and now I'm wondering if I have carpenter ants. But guide says carpenters are 1/4" to 1/2". Mine are never more than 1/4". What do you think?
 
  #11  
Old 07-09-20, 02:37 PM
P
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1,915
Received 109 Upvotes on 102 Posts
Good pics. Not carpenter ants, I feel confident about that. After looking and comparing on line, I'm thinking maybe odorous house ant or argentine ant. When ID'ing ants, the tiny details like the number of segments in the antennae, the amount of nodes on pedicel (waist) need to be seen and counted. Pics on the computer won't help with those details.

See if you think the ant behaviors and general physical description are similar. I'll keep thinking on this.
 
alex_t voted this post useful.
  #12  
Old 07-09-20, 03:40 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 30
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
Another pic

Hi PAbugman, Thanks for your attention. Now I see why you say online photos not helpful to truly see the ants. I gave it another try, this time put the ant under glass under full sun. See pic attached. I put in the measurements in the pics also. I still can't see the nodes perfectly, but if I had to guess, i'd say there's only one node. What do you think?
Of your guesses Odorous House Ants and Argentine, I agree, based on this guide https://www.domyown.com/ant-identifi...ide-a-460.html

To explain the situation again. They come from outside and entire property is infested. I see them marching everywhere, in the garden, up and down trees and shrubs, on multiple points on the foundation coming into the house. I was foolish enough to ignore them for years and this property was more or less ignored many years before I bought it.

I pulled up one weed barrier next to the foundation and saw a dozen nests next to each other (see pic I posted on my first post).

So one question is whether to even feasable to ever eradicate them. Seems more doable to just prevent them from entering house, if that's even possible. What do you think?


 
  #13  
Old 07-09-20, 03:52 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 30
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
Odorous ants

The pic on this article seems identical to mine, down to the dent on top of the head. Brownish color like mine.
https://akitapestcontrol.com/odorous-house-ants/


 
  #14  
Old 07-10-20, 10:15 AM
P
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1,915
Received 109 Upvotes on 102 Posts
Yeah, I'm comfortable going with odorous house ant. In any case, Argentine or OHA, I would treat the exterior with a fipronil (active ingredient) based insecticide by mixing the concentrate with water into a compressed air sprayer. Not allowed to use it indoors.

We don't have OHA here, so I've never dealt with them, so I don't know if a baiting strategy would work or not. Sounds like the colonies are huge. I would still try a granular bait on exterior; I've pasted an example of one that I like.

https://www.domyown.com/ant-baits-c-1_60.html
For some reason the specific bait I want won't post by itself. Look for "Invict Express" granules on the page.
 
  #15  
Old 07-10-20, 12:38 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 30
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
Hi PAbugman, Thank you for your response.
1. For fipronil, how about Taurus SC?
2. House is on slab foundation surrounded by dirt or gravel. Pic: https://photos.app.goo.gl/SkUMxButEMjy5aGf7. My assumption is that I should spray the foundation, not the ground, correct? If I spray the gravel, then it just covers the top of the gravel and ants move underneath.
3. Should I spray any nests I see? Like soak them?
4. One application or multiple? How often?
5. What would be the bait for? Which does which - I mean what does fipronil do and what granular bait does?

Sorry about all the questions. I want go into it knowing what I'm doing. I've spent money on stuff that turned out to be not effective, like Terro Liquid Ant Baits, which worked for a few days but eventually ants literally marched over the bait station and on to their destination.

 
  #16  
Old 07-10-20, 02:16 PM
P
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1,915
Received 109 Upvotes on 102 Posts
Taurus is a good choice. Any of them with fipronil are good; most are cheaper since Termidor came off patent.

Spray foundation, spray ground perimeter , spray soffits, cracks and crevices in patio, sidewalk, porches, etc.
Fipronil is non-repellent meaning they don't even know it's there. That's very important so don't spray anything else as it will probably be repellent and would work against you then. We want them to walk all through it. They won't go "under" it as they will contact it by simply getting that close. Read the label carefully for ant control. Go to Termidor home page and read their info, too, as it’s the same ingredient. Treat the base of mature trees, too. About 4-5 feet up the trunk. Not sure about frequency, but again the label will guide you. Two to four times a year, I expect but read the labeled directions. Give your sprayer a fair cleaning with dish soap and water to remove prior repellents.

The bait is mostly for the outlying ant colonies. Help create a buffer zone. If the ants are accepting of the bait, keep feeding them however long it takes. It isn't a 1 or 2 times thing. You'll get the feel for it when you get into this.
 
alex_t voted this post useful.
  #17  
Old 07-10-20, 02:36 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 30
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
PAbugman, thank you for all the guidance. I feel lucky.
I will report back about fipronil.

So don't soak nests with it because we just want them to walk through it when they get to the foundation - correct?

I thought the bait is for inside but you say "The bait is mostly for the outlying ant colonies." You mean colonies away from the house - in the yard?

So don't do anything inside the house? I still have a bunch of Terror Liquid Ant Bait
https://www.amazon.com/Terro-T300-3-Killer-Liquid-Baits left and I was going to use in various locations inside thinking at least it kills some for a while.
Or would that work against the non-repellent "stealth" strategy you describe?
 
  #18  
Old 07-11-20, 07:17 AM
P
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1,915
Received 109 Upvotes on 102 Posts
Use the baits anywhere inside and out. Baits are by nature "non-repellent" or they wouldn't be accepted. If/when you find they are accepting the bait, keep them well supplied. It's all dosage related; larger colonies need larger amounts for control. Granular baits are best for outdoors, stations are good indoors along with the gel baits. With colonies the size that you may be dealing with, you'd need a truckload of gel (if outside) so granules are the better option. The granules sometimes are labeled for interior, too. Read the label well, as the label is the directions and the law. The label is not just the front and rear, usually it is a small booklet that opens up. Lot more info there than people realize until they purchase. Sometimes the websites have links to the labels; look for that as it will help you with selection and strategy.

Yes, you can and should treat visible ant nests with fipronil. No need to dig them up or pound a hole into ground for injection. Just a general fan spray will work. If you see their tunnels/openings you can certainly let some run down in.
 
alex_t voted this post useful.
  #19  
Old 07-11-20, 12:04 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 30
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
PAbugman, thank you again for all the advice. I'll report back. Have a great weekend.
 
  #20  
Old 08-27-20, 09:30 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 30
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
Hello @PABugman, I'm reporting back that Taurus SC worked beautifully. I used this one: https://www.amazon.com/Taurus-Fipron.../dp/B01M8F3QZH I was amazed how quickly ants vanished. It 's been a week now and I haven't seen anything yet. It's even a bit scary, to realize the stuff is this potent.
So thank you very much for your help!
You recommended following up with granular bait.
What is your opinion about this one: https://www.amazon.com/TERRO-Perimet.../dp/B0030697TQ
Also I'm not sure where to put granular bait. For example, wouldn't wind just blow the stuff away? The house is surrounded by either concrete or pavers or gravel. How should I apply it then?
 
  #21  
Old 08-27-20, 09:35 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 30
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
Oh, a friend keeps telling me the best bait is Borax + confectioner's sugar. Anything to that?
 
  #22  
Old 08-28-20, 09:22 AM
P
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1,915
Received 109 Upvotes on 102 Posts
I've had good luck with the Terro liquid/gel baits but not tried the granular. Terro baits are boric acid based. For granular bait, I'd rather use something like Intice as it is formulated more for ants rather than the boric acid baits which are more of a general bait. The pro's use Intice.

I'd scatter it as a general broadcast around perimeter of house, much like you were scattering chicken feed. No need to go real heavy as they'll find it. The labels give good instructions on baiting strategy. I wouldn't worry about the wind. It may not be that necessary to even bait since you've gotten good results already. It wouldn't be wrong to wait and see. If the ants aren't there to any extent anymore, then you'd be baiting for something that isn't there.

As far as making your own bait, I can't imagine that I or anyone else could come up with something that would compete with what biologists, chemists, entomologists with their research labs and real testing and eventual EPA approval process can do.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: