Insulating Plank houses

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  #1  
Old 01-18-05, 06:09 PM
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Insulating Plank houses

While updating a 2 family plank house, I added insulation where possible (i.e when puttin in new kitchen I studded out wall added insulation and new sheet rock, insulated attic to R - 44, insulated cellar & sealed leaks ). But its still colder then I'd like and I know its going to use (waste) a lot of heat.

What is the most practical way to insulate this house?
 
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  #2  
Old 01-19-05, 01:23 AM
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I would suggest checking for air leaks for starters. These can be remedied with rigid foams and spray insulation foams such as Hilti CF128-DW. Some houses I have seen have open spaces above the furnace area into the attic space. This was a serious design flaw.

What is beneath the floor? Have you considered this area?

Again as I have mentioned in other postings, research the alternative insulations. One may not be suitable for all conditions.

Liquid ceramic insulations for example has advantages in such an application. It does not require added space as it is the thickness of a business card. It actually performs more effectively than standard insulations because it addresses all three methods of heat flow, conduction,convection and radiation whereas standard insulations only address conduction. With the standard insulations heat will escape but increased thickness will slow it down (not stop it).

see this Denver Energy Report:
http://www.eaglecoatings.net/content...compressed.wmv
 
  #3  
Old 01-19-05, 06:40 AM
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insulating plank house -"ceramic paint"

I'm looking at ceramic paint (online) I can't seem to find any info about using it on asbestos siding....any idea?

Also they claim R 28 if used inside & out anyone have any experience with this type of product
 
  #4  
Old 01-19-05, 12:14 PM
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ceramic paint

Words of caution, with every good product a cheap knockoff will follow. Stating R28 is foolish and impossible because it simply does not apply to a "thin" coating. If they state RE28 then they are saying it is equivalent to R28 which is acceptable only if they have the required ASTM certifications to back up their claims.

The R or resistance rating formula is dated technology and very misunderstood. This is why you will see the European countries using BTUs and K Factor values.

"the conduction formulas, whether using the "U", "K" or "R" values is all based on thickness. All the formulas require thickness to properly finish the calculation to show effectiveness. The materials studied at the time required thickness and therefore all formulae are critical to thickness. The idea of not having thickness was not acceptable because it all required trapping air to work. Nothing like the idea of ceramics repelling heat and effectively blocking heat was thought of at the time. Thickness was the main point of conduction control." PhD Inn Choi (retired heat transfer professor at Ohio State Univ. and researcher at Purdue Univ and was on the research group for Owens Corning when making the R rating formulas to sell fiberglass)

The best way to check out a product with such claims is to look for their testing to support their claims. This testing must have been carried out by a independent certified lab. My guess is you won't find this anywhere where you saw this information simply because it doesn't exist. Don't be fooled by the Energy Star label. Simple white paint will qualify. If they indicate their testing was done by Warnock Hersey the testing is not certified and does not qualify for ASTM. A phone call to WH confirmed this.

Many of the fakes are marketed under new names but often come from the same manufacturer (such as Canada). They usually have one single ceramic which is actually a glass hollosphere (glass conducts heat).
Here are some of the names of the fakes: ICI - Insulcoat, Tempcoat, ASTEC,Ceramacoat,Ceramakote,Thermcoat,Liquid Ceramic,Liquid Siding,Hy-Tech

These companies also cannot call their product "insulation" without the proper ASTM certifications. Many of these companies have also changed the way they market their product such as using the term "insulation and R-values" because of the following cases:

Many of you have probably heard of Kryton Coatings International. Here is a link regarding their attempt to get in this game and the end result when taken to court: http://www.ftc.gov/os/2002/06/krytoncmp.htm

Also see Para Inc. :http://competition.ic.gc.ca/epic/int.../ct02570e.html

Here is a sample of the types of testings and certifications you should expect to see to support a products performance claims: http://www.eaglecoatings.net/content...ifications.htm
 
  #5  
Old 01-19-05, 12:38 PM
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insulating plank houses

so the product mentioned & tested seems to have the "credentials".... I will definately look into this product and would like to try it on the interior of one half of a double block -then compare heat costs.
 
  #6  
Old 01-19-05, 01:04 PM
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asbestos!!

My first concern is the "asbestos" siding. I'm not sure I would want this or any asbestos on my home as this can be hazzardous to your health. If you are keeping the siding I would suggest using a certified biohazzard encapsulator before applying the coating. A product called RUST GRIP will do the job. This was used to treat houses on an Indian reservation housing complex to encapsulate lead based paint as oposed to removing it. Super Therm is a multi-ceramic insulation coating which will do the job. It is the only ceramic coating I have found that has insulation status as per BOCA (now ICC).

What is your objective in applying to the exterior?
It is most effective where it will "face" the heat but because it has the multi-ceramic formula it will provide insulation on either side of the substrate. An exterior application will see the best performance in the summer months wheras an interior application will better "contain" heat in the winter months.
A test by a distributor in Oregon on his own house is being conducted and monitored by the local power company. He has coated the interior side of his outside walls and the ceilings. The rationale for this is due to the fact that 50% of heat loss is through the ceiling (attic) and 50% is through the exterior walls (warm air molecules always move towards the cold). I am waiting to see the overall results. So far the first two months indicate his energy consumption is half what it was last year. I want to see what his means over the full year and also compare the conditions ie.temperatures.

I can ask around for a distibutor for your area if you like.

David
 
  #7  
Old 01-19-05, 01:20 PM
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insulating plank houses

the asbestos siding is in good shape - it isn't cracked or broken - asbestos siding is very common in this area.

the reason for "painting" exterior would be for insulating purposes - I saw that they offer an encapusaltor - but I couldn't determine if it was also an insulator.

I'd appreciate any help you can offer in finding a distributor - I work in the local code enforcement office and no one in office has ever heard of this product.

I would imagine there would be quite a market for this product in this area - lots of old plank houses with asbestos siding. Right now our choices for insulation is adding it to inside (and reducing size of already small rooms) or insulating over siding - since its asbestos - that's not an option as they'd have to break siding. Add to that the fact that this is a 2 family home - while (believe it or not) if it were one family I could simply remove siding and dispose of in the local landfill.

Contractors removing siding need special documentation and need to take all the precautions - home owners can pretty much do what they want. I haven't checked into this recently - but this was the DEP ruling in 2003
 
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