Problems with insulation and vapor barrier?
#1
Problems with insulation and vapor barrier?
We live in Michigan and about 20 years ago my father put regular paper back insulation on the floor of the crawl space. (paper side up against wood) He also wrapped all heat ducts using the same insulation and procedure. (paper side against metal ducts) He also put down a heavy black plastic on the ground overlapping each piece about 6 inches. I am not sure if this was correct to do but here is the problem now. The house has been vacant for some time. About 2 years ago the sump pump hose broke and the whole crawl space filled with water. I am not sure how long it was this way but I would guess maybe a month or more. I fixed the pump and got the water out. About 6 weeks ago the sump pump broke and again water was under the crawl space. I replaced pump and got the water out. It has been 6-7 weeks and the foundation blocks are still very wet. The insulation has pulled down in allot of places and the paper side looks like it was burned. (really dry and in pieces with black around the edges, I assume mold?) We tore up the carpet and the padding was moist with small black dots on it. (Again I think mold) We removed all padding and the wood seems to be moist also. There is drainage on the outside of the house going to the sump and that has not stopped running since. There are only a few small vents. I plan on pulling all the insulation and the plastic out and putting fans under the house to let it dry out. Would this be correct or should I leave the plastic? Any suggestions or input would be greatly appreciated. We plan on selling the house in a couple of months.
#2
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crawl space
The only down side to a plastic vapor barrier on the ground, in a crawl space
is in the event of a real water problem, it acts a lot like a swimming pool
liner. Once you get the water problem under control. it can go back to it's
proper function as a vapor barrier. A sump pump running continually in a
crawl space sounds like you have a serious drainage problem, bad grading,
or something unusual allowing that much water under there. How much deeper
than the surrounding grade is the dirt floor of the crawl space? Are you near
a lake? I would tear out the damaged insulation, but leave the plastic barrier
down there. Once you get everything exposed and dried out, I would suggest
consulting a qualified mold abatement contractor and see what else needs to
be done. I don't think we're supposed to give out names and phone #s of
contractor referrals on this forum, but if you want to E-mail me through this
forum, I would be glad to pass along the info of a reputable contractor. What
part of Mi. do you live in?
is in the event of a real water problem, it acts a lot like a swimming pool
liner. Once you get the water problem under control. it can go back to it's
proper function as a vapor barrier. A sump pump running continually in a
crawl space sounds like you have a serious drainage problem, bad grading,
or something unusual allowing that much water under there. How much deeper
than the surrounding grade is the dirt floor of the crawl space? Are you near
a lake? I would tear out the damaged insulation, but leave the plastic barrier
down there. Once you get everything exposed and dried out, I would suggest
consulting a qualified mold abatement contractor and see what else needs to
be done. I don't think we're supposed to give out names and phone #s of
contractor referrals on this forum, but if you want to E-mail me through this
forum, I would be glad to pass along the info of a reputable contractor. What
part of Mi. do you live in?
#3
crawl space water
We live in the Saginaw area and the sump is about 4 foot below dirt grade of house and maybe 6 foot from grade outside. The lawn grade is a little on the wrong side (taper towards the house) but not that bad. The water problem is from the sump hose being broke and there was about 6 foot of water from sump level under the house for I don't know how long. That was the first time then the second it was about 4 foot above sump level when I found it (could have been more). I will remove the insulation but I was wondering if it will dry out under the house if I leave the plastic barrier. I'm sure it will but how long will I wait? I don't have a year to wait. If I pull all the plastic out I really don't want to put it back since I am selling. What advantage is a plastic barrier? If I put enough ventalation should not need a vapor barrier? Was the insulation installed correctly? I do believe everyone should have a backup sump pump installed.
thanks
bcw
thanks
bcw
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crawlspace
It sounds like you have an exceptionally deep crawlspace and even with
a slightly out of kilter exterior grading issue, it sounds like your unfortunate
crawlspace does double duty as a retention pond. The insulation was
correctly installed. The vapor barrier's job, under normal circumstances,
is to simply limit the amount of water vapor coming up through the soil
under your house which would otherwise create moisture damage to the
floor framing above. Now, obviously, the VB isn't going to do much good if
it has 4 ft. of water on top of it. If the VB is preventing the water from
percking into the soil below, you may have to remove it. If you have that
much water down there when the sump pump fails, I question how much
percking the soil underneath is capable of, VB or no VB. Does the sump
actually connect to a system of perforated drain pipes or clay tile under
the soil ? Does the soil under the house just kind of slope towards the
sump ? What kind of soil is actually under the VB ? Some crawlspace sumps
are more of an afterthought, and are just a crock in which to install a sump.
Depending on how this crawlspace is configured, you may have too many
problems to even consider the worth of a VB at this time and would need
torn up in order to make extensive repairs anyway. If you're getting that
much water down there, a proper fix is going to take a lot more than a
back-up sump pump.
a slightly out of kilter exterior grading issue, it sounds like your unfortunate
crawlspace does double duty as a retention pond. The insulation was
correctly installed. The vapor barrier's job, under normal circumstances,
is to simply limit the amount of water vapor coming up through the soil
under your house which would otherwise create moisture damage to the
floor framing above. Now, obviously, the VB isn't going to do much good if
it has 4 ft. of water on top of it. If the VB is preventing the water from
percking into the soil below, you may have to remove it. If you have that
much water down there when the sump pump fails, I question how much
percking the soil underneath is capable of, VB or no VB. Does the sump
actually connect to a system of perforated drain pipes or clay tile under
the soil ? Does the soil under the house just kind of slope towards the
sump ? What kind of soil is actually under the VB ? Some crawlspace sumps
are more of an afterthought, and are just a crock in which to install a sump.
Depending on how this crawlspace is configured, you may have too many
problems to even consider the worth of a VB at this time and would need
torn up in order to make extensive repairs anyway. If you're getting that
much water down there, a proper fix is going to take a lot more than a
back-up sump pump.