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# Insulation *savings* calculator

#1
05-26-05, 02:05 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: WA
Posts: 117
Insulation *savings* calculator

We recently moved into a house that had R11 blown in fiberglass installed in its attic in 1969. There has been alot of settling/degrading over time, and its obvious that there isn't much insulation in the house now.

I've seen the suggested R values for my area (Seattle, WA), and know I need to add insulation. The issue is convincing the wife that it's a project to do now instead of putting it off a year or two.

Are there any kind of calculators out there that show the heat lost at say R10 versus R38? That some how calculate the approximate dollars 'gained' over the course of a year by upgrading?

I'd love a hard figure so I can say do it now, or it'll cost us XXX in the next year.

#2
05-26-05, 06:22 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: USA
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http://www.ornl.gov/sci/roofs+walls/...on/ins_05.html

On this site you type in first 3 digits of your zip code and it gives you the code for your area. Then you look at the tables for savings.

#3
05-27-05, 10:23 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: WA
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Originally Posted by resercon
http://www.ornl.gov/sci/roofs+walls/...on/ins_05.html
On this site you type in first 3 digits of your zip code and it gives you the code for your area. Then you look at the tables for savings.
Unfortunately, I had found this site already. It looks at your current situation, and then tells you what to add to be cost efficient.

I'm looking perhaps for the numbers it uses to calculate those figures.

Something like -- I have a 1300 sq ft attic, heat my house to A degrees, outside average is B degrees. Heater efficiency is C.
Cost to maintain temperature with R11 versus cost to maintain temperature at R38.

I realize this is a lot of variables, and likely won't be "real" accurate. Just want something in the ballpark.

Even if it was as simple as if you have R11, you'll lose 71% 'more' heat through your attic than with R38.

Any ideas?

#4
05-30-05, 01:00 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 71
I don't have an answer to your question as there are so many variables to consider. You should know there are other alternatives than to adding "standard insulation" products which have deteriorated over time in the past. The site provided earlier although a government site lists different types of insulation but it isn't as up to date as it could be. They say nothing about ceramic insulation coatings yet they are highly effective and non-deteriorating when properly applied. Like other products you need to research carefully for those with the proper ASTM certifications.

#5
05-30-05, 11:47 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: WA
Posts: 117
I did a bit of reading on supertherm, and it sounds like an interesting product. Something I think I would be interested in using in addition to normal insulation.

Perhaps something like supertherm + R19 insulation instead of R38.
That'll make the attic much more accessible if the normal insulation doesn't go over the 6" rafter height.

How exactly would this (ideally) be applied to a house? Paint the outside of all roof sheeting? Paint the underside of the roof sheeting from the attic? Unfortunately, we just redid the entire roof.

Any idea how well it sticks to a ceiling when wet / being sprayed on?

Saw that 1 gallon covers approximately 100sq feet. How expensive is the stuff?

Looks like it is a Canadian company, and I didn't see a way to find distributors. Any idea for the Seattle metro area?

#6
06-08-05, 04:51 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2004
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I have responded to your last posting below. I have included your questions (in italics).

Perhaps something like supertherm + R19 insulation instead of R38.
That'll make the attic much more accessible if the normal insulation doesn't go over the 6" rafter height.

On one application on a steel building in Montreal the building inspector did not believe the Super Therm applied to the exterior was performing as claimed. After two years he ordered the contractor to have foam insulation applied to the inside walls. A year later after comparing the utility bills it showed no difference in the utility bills indicating the Super Therm was doing all the work and, the contractor was forced to waste \$30,000. What I am saying here is extra insulation may or may not be necessary depending on the objective.

How exactly would this (ideally) be applied to a house? Paint the outside of all roof sheeting? Paint the underside of the roof sheeting from the attic? Unfortunately, we just redid the entire roof.

This method of insulating requires one to litterally think outside of the box. Once you understand "how" the insulation works it should be relatively simple determining "where" to apply it. Rule of thumb, the best application is where you can "face" the heat to get the ultimate perfomance. In your case (during the summer months) the roof would be ideal. This is where the heat from the sun (radiation) enters the attic, through the roof, through the insulation and into the house. The reverse would apply in the winter months when your objective is to "contain" heat. Since we know that warm air always moves towards the cold it would then be necessary to apply the Super Therm to the ceilings and outside walls thus repelling or blocking heat from transferring through to the outside.

It doesn't matter if you have just replace the roof materials. The Super Therm contains a special UV resistant ceramic thus why it is non-deteriorating insulation. This means your roof will last much longer than it would without the coating applied. We have prolonged the life of old roofs that had the Super Therm applied. A couple of other inportant details, it is waterproof yet it breathes. And it is Class A fire rated, insulation that doesn't burn.

Any idea how well it sticks to a ceiling when wet / being sprayed on?

It has excellent adhesion properties however depending upon the method of application used it is like anything else be aware of gravity. When doing verticle walls and ceilings you will want to put two coats on at approx. 8 wet mils each to a total of 16 wet mils. It will dry down to about 10 dry mils which is roughly as thick as a business card.

Saw that 1 gallon covers approximately 100sq feet. How expensive is the stuff?
\$120.00 USD p/gal
\$500.00 USD p/5gal

Looks like it is a Canadian company, and I didn't see a way to find distributors. Any idea for the Seattle metro area?

Eagle Specialized Coatings covers both western Canada and the US. There is a contractor in Oregon named JJ Allen, who has been conducting a test on his own house with the help of the local power company. The results of this will be forthcoming. This application was done on the inside for heat containment in the winter months.

The product is manufactured in the US by Superior Products International II. You have to order through a distributor but it in your case be shipped direct from Superior. The Eagle website does have some links to fellow distributors worldwide who are in constant contact with one another in efforts to share experiences and solutions. The nice thing about it is that you will have complete ongoing support.

Robert Humble Architect in Seattle called in March this year about using Super Therm. He has designed a low income housing project made from used shipping containers and likes the idea of using Super Therm to insulate the steel containers partly because he would not need to sacrifice much space to do so and because of how effective it controls heat transfer.

#7
06-11-05, 12:33 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: WA
Posts: 117
So to insulate a house in a relatively moderate climate (Seattle), where I am concerned more about the cold in the winter rather than the heat in the summer, I would paint this on the 'hot' side of the house, as in internal walls and ceilings, then your normal paint over the top?

Would this coating work over popcorn ceilings?

Something like a 2000sq foot house would cost \$2000 for just the ceiling, and likely a single coat?

I believe I saw this is the equiv of R13 insulation. Seems like the cost wouldn't be worth the benefits.

****

Was thinking, would this paint work well as a coating on pipes / air ducts?

Paint all exposed (crawlspace) central air ducts to prevent heat from disipating into the crawl space? Might be easier than applying insulation.

What about painting it on all of our copper hot water pipes?

#8
06-12-05, 02:49 PM
nola mike
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more for your original post, but this site will let you do some comparisons:

http://www.mrhvac.com/index.html?htt...nualjshort.htm

#9
06-17-05, 10:23 AM
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coatings for insulation

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