Welcome to the DoItYourself Forums!

To post questions, help other DIYers and reduce advertising (like the one on your left), join our DIY community. It's free!

Insulating between I-Joists above Concrete Block


dgbehrends's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 212
MN

10-10-08, 02:07 PM   #1  
Insulating between I-Joists above Concrete Block

Hello and Thanks for reading,

I would like to insulate this
area of my home and all spaces similar to it above the concrete block.
It is in an unfinished basement, and during the winter I can feel cold air coming in on several spots above the concrete block around the basement.

Can I use an expanding foam or maybe pink panther foam board insulation and do I have to concern myself with a vapor barrier?

Thanks,
D in MN

 
Sponsored Links
Biggels's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1
Non-US

10-17-08, 05:02 PM   #2  
I've seen this insulated using just pink fiberglass. the other methods you stated would work as well. i have this on my to do list this weekend. I'm just going to use some bat insulation, and NOT put vapor barrier in, as the basement walls aren't finished yet.

 
airman.1994's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,579
VA

10-17-08, 07:09 PM   #3  
Closed cell foam like tiger foam would be best because it will seal the holes going to outside. Fiber glass will not seal the holes.

 
dgbehrends's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 212
MN

10-18-08, 01:40 PM   #4  
First off, thanks for replying, I was beginning to think this post would float off into the "nothing". (I have to confess I recently watched "The Never Ending Story" with my kids)

Posted By: Biggels I've seen this insulated using just pink fiberglass. the other methods you stated would work as well. i have this on my to do list this weekend. I'm just going to use some bat insulation, and NOT put vapor barrier in, as the basement walls aren't finished yet.
My basement walls aren't finished either, you can see the concrete block in my picture. However I have a walk-out and that wall does have tyvek on it, the vapor barrier. I obviously need to learn more about vapor barriers, but you will need to put a vapor barrier up when you finish your basement right??

Posted By: airman.1994 Closed cell foam like tiger foam would be best because it will seal the holes going to outside. Fiber glass will not seal the holes.
Thanks for the product tip. I will look it up.

 
dgbehrends's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 212
MN

03-06-09, 05:00 PM   #5  
I took a look at tiger foam and I don't think it would be easy for me to continuously use it every 30secs. For one I have to be on an elevated surface to reach up into my rim joist area, which would make it difficult to do them consecutively. I could build a platform but I'm looking at doing a lot of these and that would be a pretty big task. I've read that using kraft faced insulation in rim joists is not acceptable because of the moisture that will form and potentially cause rotting. So I will procede to do something like this Insulate Basement Rim Joists | thefamilyhandyman.com | DIY Projects | Reader's Digest

Does anyone have any issue with this type of insulation for the rim joists?

 
m159267's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 33
MO

03-06-09, 07:47 PM   #6  
The Family Handyman idea would work well although if you have I-joists it could be more difficult. Never use just pink batts in the rim-joist area (although it's common practice). Over time they can cause mold due to condensation. I know, it happened to me. I pulled the batts in preparation to spray Tiger Foam and found a few areas of mold (3 year old house). Using a lot of nozzles when spraying Tiger Foam can be prevented by planning. Clear out a path around the room and stack/bungie cord the canisters to a dolly. I could spray several rim joists, move the ladder and canisters and start spraying well inside of 30 seconds. I used 2 nozzles over 200' of rim-joist -- and that's because I took a break. Foam worked well and went pretty quick. Expensive but I would do it again.

 
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation

Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 39,968
GA

03-07-09, 07:27 AM   #7  
Depending on the height of your rim from the floor, you could set up sheetrock buckets and 2x12's continuously along the walls and just foam and run.

 
dgbehrends's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 212
MN

03-07-09, 03:36 PM   #8  
I have between 150 and 200 feet (1340sq/ft basement) of I-Joists to do. You can see one of them in the picture above. Some of the areas are hard to get at and have pipes and things in them. I just think I would fail the 30second rule many times in many areas if I attempted it. My rim joist is over 9ft up. I would have to build a poor mans scafolding all the way around my basement. And I don't have nearly enough cat litter pails or sheet rock buckets.

Maybe I could do tiger foam in a a few of the easier to access areas.

How many of the tiger foam tank combos did you buy and does it spray out really fast and all over or is it easy to control?

 
m159267's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 33
MO

03-07-09, 05:22 PM   #9  
My walls are 9' also. Many areas containing wiring and some pipes. That's the beauty of spray foam -- it's a lot easier spraying tight areas than cutting foam. I purchased 1 set (2 individual tanks). My plan was to spray 2+" in the joist areas (that's exactly what I did). Then I covered the foam with my old batts. With the longer hoses I could spray 4 joists from one spot. I could easily move the ladder and dolly (containing the tanks) to the next spot and be spraying well inside of 30 seconds. You need the perimeter cleared so all you have to do is move the ladder & dolly. I could have done 200+ feet with one nozzle. BTW - If you have a helper they could move the dolly while you move the ladder.

 
dgbehrends's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 212
MN

03-07-09, 08:01 PM   #10  
Man it's tempting to go for the foam. I've done a little more searching and have found some more products to consider.
HandiFoam Polyurethane Spray Foam Products and Accessories - DIY Kits
And
foam-it-green
Foam It Green Polyurethane Spray Foam Kits - Spray Foam Kits

Handi-foam looks to be the same exact product dispenser kit as tigerfoam except the instructions say you have 1minute between sprays.

I kind of like foam-it-green the best because they offer a free tyvec suit and other stuff, but I'm not sure how much time is allowed between sprays.

Obviously the less time between sprays the better because the longer it sits the more it could expand.

Edit: foamit-green responded to my email question and they said 30 seconds as well. They provide 13 nozzles and a nozzle can be cleaned with acetone so I guess I could switch nozzles when transferring to a spot that would take some time to get the gun pointed up behind the pipes.


Last edited by dgbehrends; 03-07-09 at 09:57 PM.
 
Michael Thomas's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,011
IL

03-08-09, 05:27 AM   #11  
One word of caution which may or may not apply in your case: at home inspections I frequently see rim joists (band joists) which are rotting either because the property was not built with sufficient separation between the top of the foundation grade, or because subsequent landscaping has raised a grade above this junction, or because stucco has been installed with incorrect or missing weeps screeds, or for a variety of similar reasons

To the extent that insulation retains moisture at the interior of this area it is both more difficult to inspect and stays moist for longer periods, and is subject to faster deterioration that if the wood and metal fasteners were exposed to circulating air.:




Sprayed foam will both prevent inspection and do a very effective job of retarding drying if water does soak through from the exterior, so 1) if there is any evidence of excessive moisture in this area make make certain the cause is been corrected before you insulate 2) make sure subsequent landscaping raise grade any closer than 6 to 8 inches from of the foundation.

---------

Home Inspection: "A business with illogically high liability, slim profit margins and limited economies of scale. An incredibly diverse, multi-disciplined consulting service, delivered under difficult in-field circumstances, before a hostile audience in an impossibly short time frame, requiring the production of an extraordinarily detailed technical report, almost instantly, without benefit of research facilities or resources." - Alan Carson

 
dgbehrends's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 212
MN

03-08-09, 09:59 AM   #12  
That's good advice. I haven't seen any evidence of intrusive water in my rim/band joist area. However, before we moved in and before I fixed some down spouts, I noticed that several spots in my brick foundation were sweating(no liquid water) and creating efflorescence on the brick.

I like your signature/quote, it is very true. For the house I recently sold I had a pre-inspection done and worked hard to fix everything in the report and show this to prospective buyers. For my new/current house I had an inspection done and learned a lot of about the home. One problem with home inspections is that because it requires a diversity of knowledge, their is a significant quality difference between home inspectors.

 
Michael Thomas's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,011
IL

03-09-09, 03:21 AM   #13  
Posted By: dgbehrends One problem with home inspections is that because it requires a diversity of knowledge, their is a significant quality difference between home inspectors.
Yup. And the learning process never ends - winter (slow season in Chicago) I log in here almost every day, and almost every day I learn something either directly from someone's post, or in the process of researching the answer a question someone raises. It all goes into my notes.

---------

Home Inspection: "A business with illogically high liability, slim profit margins and limited economies of scale. An incredibly diverse, multi-disciplined consulting service, delivered under difficult in-field circumstances, before a hostile audience in an impossibly short time frame, requiring the production of an extraordinarily detailed technical report, almost instantly, without benefit of research facilities or resources." - Alan Carson

 
Search this Thread