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General insulation questions


REDOAK's Avatar
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06-25-12, 06:04 PM   #1  
General insulation questions

We have an attic that was loose blown filled with insulation back in '96 when we bought the house new, but it is leveled at about the top of the 2 x 8's ceiling joists. Heating is not a problem in the winter as we are located in the west tn, area. Currently, the temp of my ceilings which very from 8 ft to 12 ft are all around 75 degrees with it 100 degrees today outside, while in the attic just above the insulation is about 115 degrees. It is 140 to 150 degrees at the roof decking. My questions are as follows:

1) Would adding more loose fill help my cooling load and if so how much more would be sufficient?

2) Why wouldn't the builder have used loose fill insulation throughout the entire attic? See next question first.

3) Why would the builder install paper backing insulation used commonly in walls over our master bedroom that has a tray ceiling and in the hallway under the 1 x 6 boards under the furnace and hot water tank area?

4) I had rats and squirrels tear several pieces of the paper back insulation in the attic walls that went above the loose fill, so can I use the great stuff spray insulation in place of it if I spray it out even with the 2 x 4's, if I can keep it from falling back off of it?

Thanks.

 
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06-25-12, 10:12 PM   #2  
Would adding more loose fill help my cooling load and if so how much more would be sufficient?
See the ZIP-Code Insulation Program. Developed in the other end of TN!

 
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06-26-12, 02:11 PM   #3  
Why would the builder install paper backing insulation used commonly in walls over our master bedroom that has a tray ceiling and in the hallway under the 1 x 6 boards under the furnace and hot water tank area?

Paper backing or "Kraft" is usually all about moisture. Assuming there is no living space above your master bedroom, the paper backed insulation is to keep moisture out. Either out of the living room or out of the attic depending if the paper is facing down or up. I usually don't put Kraft in an attic.

The furnace and hot water tank area makes sense, to keep the moisture on the ground out of your house.

I would not use "Great Stuff" for your patch work. If the insulation didn't fall out, leave it alone. If you have a moisture problem, buy a roll of insulation and replace the damaged piece. Don't put a layer of kraft insulation over another another layer of Kraft insulation - double vapor barriers are bad.

 
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06-27-12, 07:08 PM   #4  
Okay, I understand the moisture, but my attic is completely open and like I said I can go anywhere up there as I have been up there sealling all my air/heat boots and the paper faces down but only over our Master bedroom and under the furnace and hot water tank. I don't understand why they did it as I would have expected all of it to be loose filled like you say you don't normally do it at all. I don't understand your statement about making sense under the furnace and hot water tank when you say to keep the moisture on the ground out of the house when we are in the air in the attic.

Anyway, the problem with several walls in the attic is the rodents stripped every bit of the insulation and tore up the kraft paper, so i have nothing there now and I know you can't staple the paper in between the studs and drywall now. I suppose you can bring the paper inward and staple them to the side of the studs, but that is not a very good barrier now. That is why I thought spraying the foam from edge to edge would be a good tight seal along with insulating, but it could get expensive because I would estimate the wall heights of about 4 feet and approximately 10 sections missing. They did a number up there and it freaked me out see all that done. Thanks again.

 
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06-27-12, 09:26 PM   #5  
the problem with several walls in the attic is the rodents stripped every bit of the insulation and tore up the kraft paper, so i have nothing there now
An attic is usually insulated only on the "floor." What that really is is the insulation for the ceiling of the conditioned space below. What walls do you have in your attic that need insulation? Is there living space in your attic?

A picture or two might help us see what you're asking about. See How To Include Pictures In Your Post.

Have you used the ZIP-Code Insulation Program yet?

 
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07-05-12, 09:52 PM   #6  
REDOAK, the builder installed the HWT and furnace before insulating, like normal. Then they used f.g. batts under them at insulation install, then drywall ceiling.

Replace the f.g with asphalt paper-faced batts and housewrap on the knee walls, attic side only. ADA the drywall and caulk at knee-wall/floor joint per Code. Face staple, not side staple for convective loops. Block floor cavities below K.W. with f.g. in a plastic bag and canned foam after air-sealing the whole attic first. Ask about links to explain further if needed...

G

 
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07-06-12, 11:05 AM   #7  
I have some pictures but they are like 3.3 meg each and I tried to zip them, but had very little improvement. So, what I am telling you is for example I have an 8 ft ceiling hallway, but the main part of my house has 11 and 12 foot celings and so, obviously the walls continue upward in the attic and they insulated those walls. I have no knee walls or anything else up there other than right now a tremendous amount of heat and if you take and IR thermometer and shoot it at those walls where the insulation is missing is says about 86 degrees, but if you come down some into the room or where there is insulation it says about 77 degrees. I did check out that program but it doesn't tell you to use paper back or loose fill, etc. in the attic. Thanks for your response.

 
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07-06-12, 11:13 AM   #8  
I appreciate your response and I see I am not explaining myself very well, so I replied to Nashkat1. I also, don't hardly know what your saying with all those abbreviations, but it sounds like you assumed I have drywall somewhere in the attic on the walls that are extending up there from down below. I have none. I have been spraying foam in return openings that I have bypassed that run down the walls, so I follow you some. I am just wondering did they have a specific reason to not use loose fill in the hallway under those 1 x's and over there over my bedroom or was it a convenience factor for them to do it or thought it was better insulating my home when 85 percent of the attic has loose fill, that's all.

 
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07-06-12, 04:07 PM   #9  
I have an 8 ft ceiling hallway, but the main part of my house has 11 and 12 foot celings and so, obviously the walls continue upward in the attic and they insulated those walls.
That's clearer, thanks.

I did check out that program but it doesn't tell you to use paper back or loose fill, etc. in the attic.
That's because it doesn't matter what material you use. You can use shredded newspaper or old blue jeans, if you want to. What matters is installing enough, of whatever material you choose, to achieve the optimum R-value in each space for your house, your heating and cooling systems, and your area.

What also matters is installation method. A well-insulated and ventilated attic will have a vapor barrier immediately behind (above) the drywall, to avoid having moisture migrate into the insulation and the attic during the heating season and condense there, destroying the value of the insulation. Then the insulation. Then a free-flowing air flow from the soffit to the ridge, to evacuate the moisture that does get in.

In your case, it sounds like you need to install some hardware cloth over some openings, and/or take whatever measures are needed, to keep the critters out. Re-insulate those portions of the interior walls that extend into the attic with the R-value recommended for your exterior walls. Make sure the vapor barrier on the ceiling below is in good condition, then add blown-in insulation, or crosswise unfaced fiberglass batts, to reach the recommended R-value. Last but not least, make sure the air flow over the insulation is unimpeded from intake to exhaust.

 
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07-06-12, 06:34 PM   #10  
Sorry, I must have "spaced out".... You are in Zone 3, R-13 in wall, R-30 in ceiling per code: Chapter 11 - Energy Efficiency

Chapter 11 - Energy Efficiency

The high walls are actually facing the attic, not the outdoors, so the attic will be warmer air in the summer than outside due to solar gain and the stack effect. I would add rigid foamboard on the attic side to get more insulation, stop wind-washing, and stop the convective looping inherent with the low-density fiberglass batts the builder installed to meet minimum code requirements at install. Cover with/out a thermal/ignition barrier as local AHJ requires.

My thought was the builder used fiberglass because it was insulated after the HVAC unit and the attic floor. They could not blow-in cellulose there effectively.

The paper facing on the batts is a Class 2 vapor retarder, slashing/gaps.holes do not effect it as a moisture (not air) retarder: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...9yRrrdP1VBztDg

I wouldn't worry about the facing as it is not required for your Zone 3: Info-310: Vapor Control Layer Recommendations — Building Science Information

Gary

 
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07-07-12, 08:41 AM   #11  
I did as I used some of that aluminimum gutter guard type material and sprayed foam insulation between the gutter and roof decking in one corner that I know they were getting in. I think I found the spot, because the squirrels were ripping my shingles off the roof and I had spotted a rat running up there and recently I found it dead very close to where I had seen it. I hope it was because he couldn't get out and the squirrels have stopped ripping my roof up. They did this because I actually seen them entering in another corner of my roof and I sealed it, but not before it looked liked it had snowed in my front yard, because I did not cover it with any metal and I let the foam come out aways and they just went at it, but they stopped right at the roof line. The bigger problem is the roofers let the decking stop short almost all the way around the house because I can see daylight from within the attic.

That is why I asked an earlier question about spraying that Great stuff insulation in or on the wall facing it in the attic, but I guess the insulation value is @ 3.5 per inch and if I did a section of wall that would only be about R 11 and expensive on top of that and probably not a good vapor retarded as it is open cell foam compared to that closed cell spray foam you can buy online.

I don't want to start a pxxxxing contest between all of us, but that program says R38 for the ceiling in existing homes and R49 in new homes in zip code 381xx. I take that to mean that I could add more throughout my home up to another 6" or so on average as I would say on average I have slightly higher R19 now. It probably was suppose to be R30 loose filled as some spots its over and other areas its under. R49 seems like a awful lot and you would not get your investment back, not for a very looooong time. Thanks again for your time. I am learning a lot from the two of you guys.

So, what is your preference blown or unfaced rolled? I see it could be a problem where the roof decking comes down to the ends. Even if I install those baffles, which I intended to do, because they have many blocked now with the insulation up against or piled up against the decking. You cannot insulate 12" or so right to the top plate around the perimeter without some compression on the ends. I guess you just do the best you can do.

The only thing I am trying to understand is your saying check for the vapor barrier to be in good condtion in the attic floor, but I am understanding in my zone I am required to not have a vapor barrier and I just want to be sure you are not telling me something other than the actual condition of the sheetrock to be in good condition not an actual physical piece of material other than that. Other than that I think I got a better handle on this situation.

 
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07-07-12, 08:58 AM   #12  
That's cool no problem except I did that and if you read my other comment I don't want to start anything, but zip code 381xx in existing homes said R38 and in new buildings R49, which seems way more than necessary.

Are you saying using rigid board in between the studs or put regular insulation in there first and rigid insulation on the outside like if it were sheetrock?

Okay, I get you about the attic floor, but I pulled up some boards and that insulation doesn't even come up to the top of the Joists or to the 1 x 6's. I was thinking about jerking it all out and filling it with loose fill. I can push it back in there or for sure blow it in there, but trying to get a couple of more inches might not be worth it, in fact without raising the height of the floor you can't make it even R30. I bet that is more common of builders not thinking about doing that under the hot water tank and the HVAC system.

So, I want to insulate over my garage as I recently had the walls insulated, but I want to put down flooring for storage in the attic on top of that and there is no insulation there now. What is up with if I wanted to put down plywood that I need holes in it or spacing in between the sheets for air circulation? Also, what would be the minumum thickness of the plywood that would be sufficient (3/4")? I was thinking about running joist perpindicular to the ones there now to get the extra height needed. Any suggestions there?

 
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07-07-12, 02:24 PM   #13  
The only thing I am trying to understand is your saying check for the vapor barrier to be in good condtion in the attic floor,
I misspoke. I am an old-school fan of vapor control, but our understanding of the best way to do that has evolved. I realize that I sometimes say "vapor barrier" when I would have said, if I had thought about it, "air barrier" or "vapor retarder." This is one of those times. In this case, no barrier on the ceiling below may be the best solution.

I am understanding in my zone I am required to not have a vapor barrier
Well, that's a new one to me. I can certainly understand why, in Shelby County TN, where you may have more cooling degree days than heating degree days, not having a vapor barrier, such as plastic sheeting, may be a good idea, but I've never before heard of an actual ban. Is your understanding from your local building department?

If your attic were uninsulated, I would start with a vapor retarder against the ceiling. But, given that there is loose-fill insulation already in place, removing that to install anything under it hardly seems cost-effective. Moving on.

that program says R38 for the ceiling in existing homes and R49 in new homes in zip code 381xx... R49 seems like a awful lot and you would not get your investment back, not for a very looooong time.
I also ran the ZIP-Code Insulation Program for zip code 381xx, plugging in some generic home information, and I was surprised to see R-38 and R-49 come up for the attic. I assume you plugged in the specific information for your house when you ran it. I also found, BTW, that the government's Energy Code site gives R-30 as the optimum attic insulation value for your zone. Not only has our understanding evolved, it is still evolving! Clearly, we have not yet reached consensus.

To specifics: You say
I did as I used some of that aluminimum gutter guard type material and sprayed foam insulation between the gutter and roof decking in one corner that I know they were getting in.
Good, that was probably the most needed improvement.

The bigger problem is the roofers let the decking stop short almost all the way around the house because I can see daylight from within the attic.
First of all, some roofing materials require gaps in the sheathing, so that may not be a big deal. OTOH, all roofs need to drain completely, so having a gap to daylight through the roofing may indicate a problem. OTOOH, daylight should be visible through the soffit vents. Could that be what you're seeing?

I take that to mean that I could add more throughout my home up to another 6" or so on average as I would say on average I have slightly higher R19 now. It probably was suppose to be R30 loose filled as some spots its over and other areas its under... So, what is your preference blown or unfaced rolled?
I'm not a fan of loose-fill insulation because, as you've observed, it can shift, resulting in having more in some areas and less in others than you need. I would first try to even out what's there now. Then, if I was going to add anything, I would use unfaced fiberglass batts run across the direction of the joists, for two reasons: It's lighter, and it's stable - and would help stabilize the loose-fill under it.

I see it could be a problem where the roof decking comes down to the ends. Even if I install those baffles, which I intended to do, because they have many blocked now with the insulation up against or piled up against the decking. You cannot insulate 12" or so right to the top plate around the perimeter without some compression on the ends. I guess you just do the best you can do.
Well, you need to something that will keep the air flow pathway open all the way up from the intake vents. This is always a challenge. Either the baffles you mention or a fence made of hardware cloth that curves from the inside face of the top plate up onto the bottom of the rafters can be effective. Whatever is easier to install and appears effective to you.

About the high interior walls: I would still insulate them to the R-value specified for exterior walls in your area - R-13 total, IIRC. You're working to bring the temperatures in your attic closer into alignment with the temperatures outside. Having said that, GBR in WA raised an important point about the convective looping that could occur there. For that reason, I would make sure that there is an effective air barrier across the gap between the edge of the hallway ceiling and the back of the drywall in the adjacent, taller room. If this is not already in place, installing a piece of rigid foam insulation, laid flat, between each wall stud, and then installing the same rigid foam on the back of the drywall above that would be one way. Cutting paper-faced fiberglass batts long enough that you can remove 6" of the fiberglass from one end and fold that to lay out onto the hallway ceiling and be taped down should work also.

One question: What is the framing like at the top of those higher interior walls? Is there a board or some other barrier to contain the loose-fill insulation on top of the higher ceiling? If not, the rigid foam could be cut long enough to extend up and make that barrier. Or you could use some hardware cloth or some other material - whatever's easiest.

 
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07-07-12, 02:34 PM   #14  
that insulation doesn't even come up to the top of the Joists or to the 1 x 6's. I was thinking about jerking it all out and filling it with loose fill. I can push it back in there or for sure blow it in there, but trying to get a couple of more inches might not be worth it, in fact without raising the height of the floor you can't make it even R30.
Check the R-value of mineral wool batts, per inch, compared to the depth (height) of the ceiling joists in that area.

I want to insulate over my garage as I recently had the walls insulated, but I want to put down flooring for storage in the attic on top of that and there is no insulation there now. What is up with if I wanted to put down plywood that I need holes in it or spacing in between the sheets for air circulation?
You only need less than R-19. Unfaced fiberglass? Stretching something that would breathe, and still be tough enough to stop debris, over that, and then drilling some smallish holes sounds like a clever solution - landscape fabric?

 
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07-07-12, 08:13 PM   #15  
"Also, what would be the minumum thickness of the plywood that would be sufficient (3/4")? I was thinking about running joist perpindicular to the ones there now to get the extra height needed. Any suggestions there?-------------

I would install "catwalk" joists (regular framing lumber) of proper size for the span from bearing wall to the next bearing wall with 1/2" spacers under them, on top the existing joists, to not put any new loads on the old joists. 1/2" plywood rips, 12"-16" wide will support most men, if heavier, use thicker plywood or reduce the width. Solid block the ends and middle to prevent rotation/turn-over. Drill some 3/4" holes for ventilation of the heat/moisture diffusing from the rooms below. Use plywood rather than OSB (hygroscopic and stores moisture longer to rot/mold); BSI-038: Mind the Gap, Eh! — Building Science Information

Gary

 
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07-07-12, 08:23 PM   #16  
"Also, what would be the minumum thickness of the plywood that would be sufficient (3/4")? I was thinking about running joist perpindicular to the ones there now to get the extra height needed. Any suggestions there?-------------
Gary, this question is about the unfinished space over the OP's garage.

 
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07-07-12, 09:04 PM   #17  
It is simple, really.... I need more sleep, LOL. I'm glad someone is awake, thanks!

Figure your storage weight/span/species needs, add them- keep separate from ceiling framing: Chapter 5 - Floors

OR; Maximum Span Calculator for Joists & Rafters

Gary

 
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07-08-12, 01:17 PM   #18  
First of all, I want to thank the two of you for this overwhelming of information. I wanted to respond to all of it at once, but my message would be tremendously long, so I am going to just send separate messages. I see you know a lot about this and obviously you can approach insulating, air barriers or retarding to no end. I thank both of you for this information. I am going to go in reverse order or the last response to first response and just lump it together because I can't keep separating who said what first. So, I don't want anyone getting offended of not equal responding.

I looked at the span calculator and I am not sure I can relate to what I have, but I will tell you what I got and I want to do like the suggestion of GBR.

I have a 20 x 20 garage that had 1 x 6" 20 foot long as flooring laying perpendicular to the 2 x 8" joist and most of them are pulled up now. Would you call them ceiling or floor joists? Seems like it depends where you're standing right? They are on 2' center and I have two 2 x 16 laminate beams together in the center of the garage, thus they come down from the ceiling into the garage. Someone told me it is well supported, but I am sure you can tell me that also. I have it setup so I can run two 14,000 btu portable ac units inside the garage.

I wanted to replace the 1 x's because it just looks bad and wanted to have smooth or at least wider planks, so I could go with 1 x 10's or cut 1/2" plywood and it sounds like you're saying I can but them up against each other, but must drill holes for ventilation. I would love to lay down those plastic crate looking panels down, but they are expensive. I might use them for sections you would only walk on and stack stuff on plywood or 1 x's.

So, if I wanted to make sure I achieved at least R38 that means @ 12" thick right? What would be an idea for that?

If I could send either one of you or both pictures by e-mail, I know I can do that. I am doing that regularly with another guy from this DIY forum on another major project I took on, but if not I understand.

Where the roof rafters come down and intersect with the ceiling or floor joist there is a 2 x 4 that they rest on the entire length of the garage on both ends. So, I thought I could just let the 2 x 4's rest on them and that would give me a 2 x 8 plus the thickness of the 2 x 4 and another 2 x 4 standing up on top of that and then the flooring on top of that. I add up to about 12 3/4". Seems to be about right? Remember these 2 x 4's would be running in parallel or right directly above the 2 x 8's if I understand you correctly. And still no vapor retarder or barrier.

I'll stop with this for now, but I really like the reference or code requirements you have given me, thank you again for your time.

 
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07-08-12, 03:22 PM   #19  
If I could send either one of you or both pictures by e-mail, I know I can do that
No need to e-mail us. You can include pictures in your posts here, and everyone will be able to see them! See How To Include Pictures.

I will take a longer look at this post later.

 
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07-08-12, 09:48 PM   #20  
I have it setup so I can run two 14,000 btu portable ac units inside the garage... if I wanted to make sure I achieved at least R38 that means @ 12" thick right? What would be an idea for that?
I'm confused. Are you trying to make both the garage and the space above it part of the conditioned space? Or just the garage, or neither? What is you plan, or goal, for this space?

I have a 20 x 20 garage that had 1 x 6" 20 foot long as flooring laying perpendicular to the 2 x 8" joist and most of them are pulled up now. They are on 2' center and I have two 2 x 16 laminate beams together in the center of the garage.
I think you're saying that the space above the garage has 2X8 floor joists, 24" o.c., that are slightly more than 10' long, and that meet, and are joined, on top of a doubled 2X16 TrusJoist (or equivalent) running perpendicular to them? Is that right?

If so, it depends on how well the doubled TrusJoist is supported. Also, to support any real load above, I would want to have the 2X8s set 16" o.c. and cross-blocked in the center of each 10' span. Maybe above the support beam too.

I wanted to replace the 1 x's because it just looks bad and wanted to have smooth or at least wider planks, so I could go with 1 x 10's or cut 1/2" plywood and it sounds like...
If you install insulation under this flooring, then it won't be visible.

 
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07-09-12, 02:20 PM   #21  
Just the garage for heating and cooling and the attic for basic storage and yes, I am saying the 2 x 8's overlap at the center beam. I knew you wouldn't care for the 24" oc and I might not can do anything now except try doubling up some or all of the joists, but they did my entire house that way with the ceiling joists and the roof rafters. I think code does not allow that now and it is now 16" center, but a I have heard they flip flop about every decade with issues like this. Now, I can't remember exactly how they were supported, but I ripped out all the sheetrock myself and seemed like it was supported by three or four 2 x 4's directly underneath both ends of the beam running down to the sill. Seemed like it was done right, whatever that means.

I was referring to how 1 x 6's looked cheap as they were twisted and just ugly looking, which I know, who cares in an attic. I guess it is like comparing to 2nd's or lower grade wood from higher grade wood. I just don't care for that quality at all unless it was completely hidden, but that might still bug me. I am going to try and send a separate message again and see If I can send a picture, but the last time it just kept failing to upload it. Thanks again.

 
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07-09-12, 03:31 PM   #22  
Just the garage for heating and cooling and the attic for basic storage
Then you need to insulate the garage ceiling to R-38. If it isn't already, you need to insulate the wall separating the storage space from the rest of the second floor to R-13 or so, paper barrier toward the conditioned space. If there is a door into the attic, it needs to be an exterior door - or you might be able to just glue a couple of inches of XPS onto the attic side and weatherstrip it. Plenty of ventilation for the attic.

The joisting is for a ceiling. 2X8s 16" o.c., with cross-blocking, would be for a floor. Hm. Whatever you do, a later owner might assume that it's an adequate floor and decide to finish out the space. How about moving and adding 2X6s to get 16" o.c., cross-blocking, and flooring the space with 3/4" T&G plywood? And stenciling something like Not Framed For Living Space on it in several places?

Just thinking.

 
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07-09-12, 04:31 PM   #23  
Me too, thank you.

The house is one level and there is no insulation in the ceiling, just sections of 1 x 6's. Contractors told me I couldn't make it a room because something about the ratio of the wall to the ceiling is not large enough plus you have to have a permanent stairs. Can't put a normal door in there. I have the pull down type stairs. On the one end of the garage I have more walls that come up into the attic that has the worst damage the rodents did and made themselves at home with some planting pots we had up in the attic. I mean they carried the insulation into the pots and made them some cozy beds. Quite impressive, but shocking to see so much of it missing. They did not touch any of the loose fill, but went for that kraft backed insulation in those walls.

I originally wanted to do exactly what your describing, but I was not anticipating the blocking or getting them up off of the current joists. That is quite significant of a change. Someone else said I could do what you are describing, but as you can see, I want to be sure and I would rather keep bugging you and asking around until I feel comfortable enough that it would work. I can stencil make warning signs, etc. that would be no problem there for sure as that is a good idea.

Wait a minute, I just reread what you suggested about moving my current ceiling joists from 24" to 16" if I understand what you just said? You do know or maybe you don't that I have sheet rock underneath or in the garage itself and I spent a lot of time and effort of scraping the "popcorn" off of it last fall and we would have to tear all that out. If that entails that then I might just try and make the perimeter in the attic storage like about three feet from the ends? Or don't do anything, but like I said they had the entire area covered in 1 x 6's and it was approved by inspectors. Don't mean it was right, but it was acceptable.

So, I just wanted to insulate it for the garage below and improve the area with a better looking and more reliable area to store some stuff, but maybe I can't floor it the way I want to and that will be okay, but I just need to know for sure because I do want to insulate well if at all possible.

 
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07-09-12, 05:07 PM   #24  
You do know or maybe you don't that I have sheet rock underneath or in the garage itself and I spent a lot of time and effort of scraping the "popcorn" off of it last fall and we would have to tear all that out.
LOL! No, I didn't know that.

So... No second level. Pull-down stairs. Hm. How about this:

Add 2x4 sleepers across the joists.Run one at the edge, another 6"-8" in from that one. 16" o.c. between those last two. Extend the case of the pull-down stairs to the top of the sleepers, if it isn't already tall enough. Shake the space between the joists full of loose-fill insulation, up to the top of the sleepers. Cover the opening between those two outer sleepers with 1/4" hardware cloth. Floor everything between the two hardware cloth strips with 3/4" T&G plywood. Make sure you have good ventilation. Done.

Well almost. Insulate the opening for the pull-down stairs.

 
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07-11-12, 07:20 PM   #25  
Once again, I will try and send you pictures to show you the current 2 x 4's at the ends now, but maybe you are saying but one to that one by letting it lay flat down? Do you also mean let it lay flat down or on its side running it across the joists. What is your idea about spacing the plywood or drilling holes in it for that type of ventilation? Is it really necessary?

I have read lots of different ways to seal that attic opening, but I haven't seen one I really like that I think really seals it and yet be removable on and off the opening. I want and need to do this for the hallway stairs in the house too. Thanks again.

 
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07-11-12, 09:40 PM   #26  
I will try and send you pictures to show you the current 2 x 4's at the ends now
To include pictures in your posts, follow the steps in How To Include Pictures.

Do you also mean let it lay flat down or on its side running it across the joists.
Flat down. Sleepers. 16" o.c.

What is your idea about spacing the plywood
T&G plywood. T&G materials are not spaced.
or drilling holes in it for that type of ventilation? Is it really necessary?
No. Not installing cross-blocking plus leaving the 6" - 8" space at each end of the joists should give you plenty of ventilation.

I have read lots of different ways to seal that attic opening, but I haven't seen one I really like that I think really seals it and yet be removable on and off the opening. I want and need to do this for the hallway stairs in the house too.
I hear you. I want to look into this, but when I have more time and energy. If I don't get back w/in a couple of days, I would appreciate getting a PM to remind me.

 
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07-12-12, 05:09 PM   #27  
None of my pictures will upload to begin with and last night I spent an hour on that photobucket site trying to type those ridiculous security names and after dozens and dozens of tries it would not accept me there either. So, I downloaded that other program Image Shack and I guess I will give it a try when I can get the energy for that also. This picture process should not be this difficult and I could be doing a lot of things wrong, but I will keep trying.

Thanks for clearing up the direction of laying the boards.

One more thing, I don't do Facebook, so I don't know what that's about either. I guess I am behind the times, but just don't want to be connected to that world.

Some of those covers seem decent, but based on their price to value of holding up over time don't seem to be worth it to me, so I will be patient because I have plenty else to do up there now. Thanks again.

 
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07-12-12, 09:32 PM   #28  
None of my pictures will upload to begin with and last night I spent an hour on that photobucket site trying to type those ridiculous security names and after dozens and dozens of tries it would not accept me there either. So, I downloaded that other program Image Shack and I guess I will give it a try when I can get the energy for that also. This picture process should not be this difficult and I could be doing a lot of things wrong, but I will keep trying.
Bummer. Thanks for hanging in with it.

 
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