Welcome to the DoItYourself Forums!

To post questions, help other DIYers and reduce advertising (like the one on your left), join our DIY community. It's free!

Insulating Braces on Basement Foundation


slabo74's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 11
CANADA

12-07-13, 07:41 AM   #1  
Insulating Braces on Basement Foundation

Hi Everyone,

I'm looking for some advice. I recently had some bracing done, as I had a significant horizontal crack in one of my basement walls, and the wall was buckling inwards.

Some pictures of the process are here, along with the subjects of my question: https://plus.google.com/photos/11166...M3o9Y7ylPPrxAE

As per another thread I have going on in the framing forum, I think I have a good handle on how I'm going to frame around these beams, but I'm not quite sure how to best seal them away from the framing and warm air as I'm worried they're going to be a condensation nightmare. I'm up in Winnipeg, MB, so it definitely gets cold here.

I did get some advice about using rigid foam to box them out, but that was before the work was done. Now that they used more of an L-shaped beam, I think that might be a bit tricky to do well, especially with the bolts down the middle.

Anyone have any advice? Spray foam is expensive, but I'm worried it's my only option here.

Edit: For convenience, here's the link to my other post on the framing: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/ba...d-bracing.html


Last edited by slabo74; 12-07-13 at 07:42 AM. Reason: Added link to other post
 
Sponsored Links
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 11,824
MN

12-07-13, 08:19 AM   #2  
Spray foam is expensive but there are DIY kits that might fit the bill. Just foam the steel and use other insulation for the rest of the spaces.


Electrical AC/DC and lighting Moderator
Professional Electrician, Handyman, all around swell guy!
40,000 people die in auto accidents per year in the US. We should ban cars.

 
Norm201's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 5,432
NY

12-07-13, 08:30 AM   #3  
Can you cut and glue rigid foam board around the members?

 
canuk's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 293
CANADA

12-07-13, 01:43 PM   #4  
As per another thread I have going on in the framing forum, I think I have a good handle on how I'm going to frame around these beams, but I'm not quite sure how to best seal them away from the framing and warm air as I'm worried they're going to be a condensation nightmare. I'm up in Winnipeg, MB, so it definitely gets cold here.
Yep --- tell me about it.
Woke up this morning it was -29C ( -20F ) without a windchill. Of course the battery in my work vehicle gave up it's ghost and had to screw around in the cold to get it started.

I did get some advice about using rigid foam to box them out, but that was before the work was done. Now that they used more of an L-shaped beam, I think that might be a bit tricky to do well, especially with the bolts down the middle.
I'll have to wait to get home to view the pictures , but I suspect you likely have 4X4 angle iron bolted through into the concrete foundation. Probably bolted into the floor joists above and should have had the floor cutout with the angle iron set into that with concrete fill.

The rigid foam is a practical solution. Cut two lengths to whatever dimension needed to just clear the projecting edge of the angle iron. For example --- each web of the 4 X 4 angle iron will be around 4 inches -- cut the lengths 4-1/8 or 4-1/4.

Use PL300 foam adhesive to fasten the foam onto the back side of the projecting edge of the angle iron. On the other side dab some pl300 on the edge of the foam that contacts the concrete.

Next cut a length of the dimension needed from edge to edge spanning the two side pieces with dabs of pl300 to adhere with.

The top --- cut your square piece to dimension with a kerf to allow the web of the angle iron to slip in.

In other words --- you are boxing in the angle iron with the rigid foam.

Here's the important part ---- I strongly suggest using the low expanding foam-in-a-can ( the stuf for windows and doors ).

Apply the foam ( like using caulking ) by pushing the applicator nozel in the seam to completely seal the rigid foam ,especially along the joint of the rigid foam to concrete wall and floor. The front edges you can get away with housewrap tape (Tuck) along the seams. Ensure to seal the top piece.

The top portion of the angle iron will be exposed in the joist bay, but that shouldn't be too much of an issue. It's on the warm side of the insulation that should be in the rim joist area. You have thermally isolated over 95% of the angle iron with the remainder in the warm conditioned space and will be open to the joist bay to carry away any potential condensation that *may* occur.

Anyone have any advice? Spray foam is expensive, but I'm worried it's my only option here.
It's not your only option but it is certainly a good one. You wouldn't have to do the whole wall assembly just have the angle iron sprayed.

It's pretty darn hard to find DIY spray foam kits in Winterpeg. There's only one place that offers a kit but danged if I can remember who it is.


BTW --- who did the work ? Sturgeon , Abalon , Talon ?

 
slabo74's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 11
CANADA

12-07-13, 04:49 PM   #5  
Wow, some nice solid advice right off the hop.

I'll have to look around for some DIY spray insulation. I'm pretty handy, so if I can get my hands on some I think that might be the easiest option, although using the rigid foam sounds like it will do as well. I don't have any experience with either, though, so the advice is very helpful.

Is this the stuff? Froth Spray Insulation Foam | RONA Not much in the description, but it sounds like it might just be for cracks and gaps. I'll hunt around.

Canuck, you're pretty much bang-on with everything, right down to how the braces are pinned into the slab and joists. Your advice on how to apply the rigid foam sounds good too, although I suppose I'll have to dig out little cavities to go over these lag bolts. No biggie, though.

Abalon did the work, and did a nice job. I did get a quote from a few other places, including Sturgeon, but Abalon seemed to be the only ones that looked at everything very closely, so I got the most warm-and-fuzzies from them. The guy who quoted from Sturgeon didn't even think the wall needed to be pushed back, but it was deflected quite a bit so I wanted that done.

 
canuk's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 293
CANADA

12-07-13, 05:54 PM   #6  
That Froth-pac might just be the cat's meow. I didn't know that Rona sells it.
I would consider it. Just make sure to check the coverage area per package , but if only takes 2 boxes then it might be worth it. The trick to spraying the foam is putting on a thin coat --- it looks like it's not enough but when it expands it will be.

Yep-- last time I had an estimate with Sturgeon I wasn't impressed --- the guy didn't have a clue about adfreeze and what it is.When they first started out they were pretty good but seems now they are established they have more work and less interest.

I suppose I'll have to dig out little cavities to go over these lag bolts. No biggie, though.
Not sure why you need to do this.
Attached is a sketch of what I was describing there shouldn't be any interfernce from the lags bolts.


Geez --- just watching the Jets play Tampa Bay

Attached Images
     
 
slabo74's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 11
CANADA

12-08-13, 09:24 AM   #7  
Ok, I just realized I was being stupid. I was thinking about covering the angle iron on all faces, and not literally boxing it out. Just ignore.

That small Froth-pac looks like the right stuff, as I found some YouTube videos that showed it off really well. I'm thinking of getting a bigger package to do the rim joists as well, but I'll make do with what I can find.

Yeah... watched that Jets game too... I tell ya, they sure know how to keep things interesting by seemingly making every game a close one, even when they should be able to dominate.

I've got some running around to do this afternoon so I'll stop into Rona and see what they've got. I never fully trust what's on the web, so maybe there's some good offerings. If nothing else, I'll need to get some rigid foam and PL300 for now.

Hopefully the cat doesn't see 7 new scratching posts when I'm done with the foam...

 
slabo74's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 11
CANADA

12-08-13, 04:43 PM   #8  
Quick update: no sign of the Froth-pac or anything equivalent at Rona, but a guy there said that Star Building Materials is the only place that carries anything like it in the city. I'll check there this week.

 
canuk's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 293
CANADA

12-08-13, 04:49 PM   #9  
Ahhh --- the hunt begins.

Let me know how you make out.

 
dmattj's Avatar
Member

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1
CANADA

01-05-14, 05:12 PM   #10  
I'm about to tackle this same issue. Had the braces put in when we bought the house as a precautionary measure suggested by an engineer. Now finally getting down to insulating the basement. I'm planning to take some of the common sense advice here and box the sides of the brace, but mine are 5" deep, and I don't have the space to put even 1/2 FB on the front near the dry wall (2" XPS on the wall, with 3.5" Roxul in the frame leaves just enough space for the frame to clear). I'm thinking of just putting a strip of 1/8" sill plate foam down the front, then cover it and the edges of the XPS on the two sides with tuck tape.

Also, is there any reason the XPS boxing the brace can't be 1/2"?

 
Search this Thread