Insulating crawl space under enclosed porch

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  #1  
Old 08-06-15, 09:13 PM
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Question Insulating crawl space under enclosed porch

My husband is converting our old 3-season porch into into a much needed usable 4-season room. We live in western CT and want it to be COMFORTABLE even in the winter months. But we are STUCK, and need some professional, informed advice, and ideas!

I will try to attach a picture. My first attempt did not work. So I will describe. The crawl space averages 12" high!!! (Low:8", High:16"). My husband so far footed, framed and roofed the 5' room extension, insulating its floor. Also, on footings were poured for the other side; we are adding a portico/entry, and he has built that porch floor, and the columns to support the roof, which is probably next. That closes off some of the crawl space access at this point - 6' of the 15' length of the 10'x15' space, to be exact.

For the finished room, we wanted radiant heat floors, for total indoor comfort on icy winter days in this to-be light-filled, well-windowed room. But the idea of taking up the floor to provide a radiant-heat base was daunting. Plus, we want wood floors - not tile or vinyl or carpet, and it sounds like its not easy or possible to do wood floors with radiant heat.

The old porch floor is good solid wood, just covered with many layers of ugly paint in bad shape - most likely lead paint. So the hope was to leave this floor as is! Then cover it with nice wood flooring. Then, a large area carpet in the seating area, underneath which we woudl use a radiant heat carpet pad.

Our original idea was to hire an insulating professional who had a "long wand", like 10' long, to spray foam in insulation into that shallow crawl space. Its only now that I called to find a professional to do that, at this point in the project, as described, and we find out spray-foam insulation does not work that way! You have to get in close!

My husband first discussed filling the entire space with some sort of insulation, a foam or blow in, but the insulator professionals he talked to think that won't work. (Blow-ins are made of paper and would rot)

My husband is now leaning toward the only other options they gave him, which are some sort of thin foam board on the floor itself, or some sort of radiant foil paper. He is leaning toward the latter!

A piece of paper? I am not confident! All that freezing cold air space below the piece of paper?

So with his blessing I am asking here to see if there are ANY OTHER options for us! Help!

Perhaps with a bigger radiant-heated carpet pad - but I REALLY don't want a high-use carpeted room! Dust allergies! Maintenance! Not for our lifestyle!

I particularly want to have that empty crawl space "filled in". Is there any, any other options for us?? Is there something we can blow in or pack in there that will not be able to rot? I mean - Styrofoam pellets??

Really there has to be a huge difference between a crawlspace empty, accepting the freezing winter air, and one that is filled up with insulation. Isn't there?

How can a piece of foil paper do any good, really??

We would like good sound advice for how to accomplish our goals, as stated. We want to do this right. Right now the whole project is at a standstill, until we can get some input to help us make the right choice for going ahead.

The picture won't attach so I will try to attach one of my husband's drawings. Nope, it won't take a drawing, either.
 
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Old 08-07-15, 03:03 AM
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Try this http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...your-post.html. First reduce your pictures to a manageable size, like 640 x 1080. If taken on a phone, they are huge.

Is the bottom of the floor joists covered? If not, nothing you do with loose insulation will stay in place. I have a solution in mind, but it will require the removal of the flooring. I'll wait on the pictures.
 
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Old 08-13-15, 03:03 PM
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Thanks, Chandler, my husband said he woudl log on later today and reduce the pictures so we can post them. Thanks. I am also going to ask about radiant heating in that subforum and link this post.
 
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Old 08-13-15, 09:39 PM
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Here is a picture. You can see how shallow the crawlspace is, Name:  Samsung Intensity 2 Pictures 358.jpg
Views: 2381
Size:  7.0 KBonly about 16" here, and this is the side where it is deepest.
This one is of the whole house.Name:  Samsung Intensity 2 Pictures 335.jpg
Views: 2277
Size:  7.0 KB

(I have house plans my husband made, and if anyone needs to see the floor plan for any reason to answer this question, I can email it. Because they woudl not reduce down).
 
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Old 08-16-15, 10:10 PM
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Question My insulation questions: Narrowed down to three!

My husband has decided we are now going to install an electric radiant floor. We now have these pressing questions to settle on insulating the floor. They are:

1. If we don't tear up the floor, which is in good shape, and we leave the crawl space un-insulated, we will use only use foil backed paper on the current floor before setting down the radiant heat and then the wood floor. In this scenario, how much would that add to our annual electric radiant heat cost? Obviously, I am looking for a educated ballpark guesstimate. A percentage, maybe. We do hope to retire here, on a limited income, so bills matter...

If we do tear up the old floor, it will enable us to make sure we got all those carpenter ants that we have been eradicating as we go. Then we need to insulate. Which leads to these next questions. Before we put on a sub-floor, considering the size of the crawlspace:

2. What should we use for insulation?

3. and what should we use for a vapor barrier?
 
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Old 08-17-15, 04:34 AM
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how much would that add to our annual electric radiant heat cost?
Think about it. No insulation means you would be heating the crawlspace as well. Not efficient. No one could tell the heat loss from our end.

I vote for a clean install. Use Roxul insulation. A little more expensive, but worth it. Vermin resistant, fire resistant, water resistant, mold resistant, no need for a vapor barrier. Just remember you need to cover the bottom of the joists where the insulation will sit exposed.
 
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Old 08-17-15, 04:38 AM
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The best way to insulate this would be spray foam. Yes, it will be expensive, about $2 a square foot or so, but you can get up to an R44 depending on your thickness. Closed cell foam is also a vapor barrier. There are some DIY spray foam kits out there but I suggest getting some bids from contractors and see if it makes to even mess with it. Contractors have special tools to get to hard to reach places.
 
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Old 08-17-15, 09:33 AM
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Thank you for the replies!

Chandler, yes, no insulation does not sound so good. I looked up Roxel insulation. Do you mean the "Comfort Batt"? I like that that it resists mold. And okay, then, no vapor barrier. Only cover the joists. That sounds easy, and also do-it-yourself, which I am sure my husband will prefer.

Tolyn, you are liking spray foam. Do you think it is far superior to Roxel, which seems easier to install? I do not know what R44 is. Something about insulation strength? Okay, is "spray foam" and "closed cell foam" the same thing, or different things? I think the spray foam would have to be much much better to get bids on it. We are adding to the cost with replacing the floor and with the radiant heat. We both want to do this right so we can really enjoy the room, but we don't want to completely break the budget...
 
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Old 08-17-15, 10:34 AM
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"R" value is an insulating rating. A 2x4 wall with fiberglass bats will be an R11 or R13. 2x6 walls an R19. So you can see that and R44 would have an R rating more then double that. Yes, I also think spray foam is better then Roxel because no matter how well batt insulation is installed, you will still get gaps and air leaks. Spray foam gets everywhere and seals it up tight. I have batt insulation in my large upstairs room vault (30x30) and you would not believe how fast it heats up in the summer and cools down in the winter.

Spray foam comes in two types: open cell and closed cell. Open cell is not used very much anymore as it is not a good as closed cell, and closed cell acts as a vapor barrier. You would likely not need to cover the exposed bottom either.

Again, I would get some bids. They should be free (anybody that charges to give you a quote you should stay away from) and some cases if you just tell them the square footage, and where its being applied, they might be able to quote you over the phone.
 
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Old 08-17-15, 01:16 PM
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I agree the spray foam is far superior to any batt insulation. As far as batt insulation is concerned, I prefer Roxul........and it don't itch
 
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Old 08-17-15, 01:54 PM
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Hi Faith,
I replied on the other thread and said I would try to read this one as well. I'm here, but didn't read it completely and you may not want to read my reply. Normally I would just ignore a thread that is going in the wrong direction, but you and hubby seem to be trying. The problem I'm having is you seem to have gotten off to a bad start and are now looking for ways to correct what has been done and from what I have read, your options are not working out. My apologies if I have missed a new proposal or two, but here is my opinion of what needs to be done. And I may be repeating what others have said.

1. A full vapor barrier on the ground below this room, pitched so rain or snow will not pool to the inside.
2. The bottom of the floor joists need to be fully enclosed with plywood and, very important, air sealed. Air leakage will provide a path for that outside cold air to invade the space you want to keep warm.
3. Then we can discuss the insulation and heat options as they are being installed from the top. Being air sealed and isolated from the moisture in the soil below and with the ability to now fill those cavities completely, you may be able to omit the radiant floor. But, if you still go with the radiant floor, the savings will at least pay for the added step backwards.

I hope I'm not totally lost, it does happen, but the best way to get out of this hole would be to back up and take another run at it.

All other posters are welcome to step on me as well.
Bud
 
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Old 08-17-15, 02:20 PM
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Not me. Post #2 and Post #6. Start from scratch and go from there.
 
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Old 08-18-15, 03:46 AM
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High, Faith. Well, after a full day, a nap and some other replies I finally made it here. I agree with the others, you have gone too far on the original plan and now for best results you need to go back and redo some things.

A closed crawlspace is the best in my opinion. Others will disagree but in Connecticut I really think it is the best. This would entail totally removing the floor and sealing all the walls around the area, installing a heavy (30 mil is best) vapor barrier across the earth and sealing it to the walls. Insulate the walls of the crawlspace and then you can pretty much forget about insulating the floor. You WILL need to condition the air in the crawlspace and that will require an outlet from the heating/cooling supply duct as well as a return duct.

Next best would be the insulated floor. For this you would need to remove the existing floor and add the insulation from above. You would still want a vapor barrier on the earth but could get away with a much lighter 6 mil thickness. Ideally you would install closable vents in the side walls to allow venting of the space under the proper conditions. Closed cell, two-pound density foamed in place insulation would be the ideal but it is also the most expensive. Since working from below is all but impossible you would need to add "listings" to the lower part of the floor joists to allow something like treated 1/4 inch plywood to be cut to fit between the joists to set on the listings which would be nailed to the sides of the joists. I would nail the listings at least 4-1/2 inches below the top of the joists as this would allow for about an R-30 (more or less) of foam insulation below the sub-floor. The spray foam will seal any air leaks from the space into the room. The downside of doing the insulation from the top is that the bottom of the floor joists will still be exposed to the cold crawlspace and this will act as a thermal bridge sucking heat out of the new room. The best alternative is to excavate the crawlspace to a depth that allows a person to work down there.

There IS one other alternative and that is to raise the finished floor enough to install insulation on top of the existing sub-floor. I suspect that others would have some serious problems with what I will propose so I am just tossing it out for some consideration. In this proposal I would use sheets of rigid polyisocyanurate insulation boards, probably cut to 14-1/2 or 22-1/2 inch widths (for 16 or 24 inch on-center spacing) and 2x6 run cross-wise to the existing floor joists. The insulation boards would fit between the 2x6 members and a bead of regular spray foam insulation around the perimeter of each insulation board would seal the board in place and reduce the air leakage to negligible levels. You would use additional layers of insulation board to achieve the highest possible R value for the space available. The top board should be the shiny foil-faced type.

When insulating the floor you want to also insulate the wall perimeter from the floor as much as possible. This is much harder to do and would entail adding a strip of insulating board along the walls to keep the new floor from touching the outside walls. For the subfloor itself the product to use is Advantech (I may have spelled that wrong) as it is a good subfloor for almost any finished floor.

I have more comments on the actual heating in the other thread. Since it is now 3:45 AM my time and I still have to clean the cat box and take out the garbage it may be yet another day before I can add much to that thread.
 
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Old 08-18-15, 09:00 AM
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Oh, wow, there is so much to think about now. I really appreciate the thorough replies. This is the information we need. We cannot think about this till tomorrow and there is much to think about. Thank you.
 
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Old 08-20-15, 09:28 AM
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I just want to say, my husband and I read these things out loud together and we are discussing them (and our budget!) I left messages with some spray-foam contractors today. My husband read some on DIY spray foam. We will have more questions I am sure. Right now he is working on the roof and we are dealing with some other things here, too...
 
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Old 08-20-15, 10:25 AM
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Faith, remind me, you have very little clearance under the floor joists, so is there currently a floor on top of those joists? If there is no floor on top or you could remove what is there you can install plywood below the joists, fastening it from above. Not easy, but the plywood can be slid in and with a few tricks lifted and held in place and fastened.

With plywood covering the bottom of the joists, you could then fill the entire cavity with your choice of insulation, and even sneak some electric radiant heat in there.

Bud
 
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Old 08-21-15, 08:15 PM
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Thanks Bud. My husband and I have not had a thorough discussion of all these suggestions yet but it is interesting he said the plywood under the joists would not be so hard (when I read that in Furd's post I thought there was no way he would want to do that. It seemed crazy! But he is willing to think through the possibilities).

But I am not sure we will have to. We had a spray foam guy here today for an estimate! We were both really impressed with what we learned from him about spray foam. I am even more convinced we should do it! It will be an expense. We have not read the estimate together yet (a lot else is going on here) that came in the email, but its between 2400 and 3000. Yikes. But, that's everything, which I'd like to go with. The great news is the floor does not need to be pulled up! He thinks they can crawl in that space and spray it in! Its what my husband originally wanted. He recommends digging under the new rear 5' extension my husband just framed and roofed and floored (sub), pulling out that new fiberglass insulation my husband just put in, and spraying foam under that new floor. We had him price that separate, but I had actually been worrying about that extension being colder than the spray foam part, so I am in favor.

We'd decided on walls and floors, and I was willing to forego the ceiling, but after learning more about it, we both said we would do the ceiling, too.

We have not firmed up the decision to go with this yet; I think we will have time to talk this midday tomorrow(we have a guest tonight). I hope the price doesn't put him into shock (I checked; I don't know if he has yet) . But keeping that good old wood porch floor for a sub floor is a great consolation to my husband...

I think I am in love with spray foam. I was so excited about all these things I learned today.

The foam guy said he had one family that ONLY did their attic - and their gas heat bill was 30% less this winter!

I believe it because we have some drafts here. We got a new gas furnace this year but wow, it ran all the time. It feels like letting money flow out the window.

As to that, he will be sending us estimates for the WHOLE HOUSE! He brought along this notebook with color-copy prints of tons of work he did. Which at first glance looks like page after page of just foam and joists, but it was extremely useful in helping us both understand foam. Foam! Its awesome stuff! Did you know you can spray-foam insulate a whole house, even an old 100 year old asbestos-on-clapboard house like ours - by temporarily pulling off the a few rows (not all) of siding and pulling out the old insulation and spray-foaming from the outside. He had pictures of houses he had done that with including an older asbestos sided one (we decided to keep our asbestos siding. We bleached it, and the roof this spring, and someday we may paint it which would look really nice. But the bleaching made it look nice enough for now).

He other pictures of a huge mountain top house - usually in the clouds - a new-build 3 years ago - and the guy had said no to spray foam then, wanting cellulose - but then this year he wanted it all pulled out and spray foam put in. Because pipes had burst.

So, yeah, I am convinced about spray foam. The spray foam guy was nice, an honest hard-working regular guy, about my dear husband's age, who had been insulating many years with all kinds of things but now only wants to do spray, because its SO FAR SUPERIOR to anything else. He is going to give us whole-house estimates.. a shocking idea to my husband at first but I was able to convinced him it would be some other year, and the guy was here, willing to give us the free estimate now. Then my husband did say he had always hoped to do the south wall someday, since it has no insulation... But Foam Guy was smart enough not to send us that estimate yet. One sticker shock at a time.

It was the explanation of "R44" and how different that is from regular insulation (and after talking to my husband who was quoting MUCH LOWER r-numbers for other kinds of insulation) that got me started learning more on spray foam. So thanks.
 
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Old 08-21-15, 09:50 PM
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Hi Faith, I need your advice. You obviously like what you heard, but you do realize he sells spray foam. Do I keep my mouth shut, as you will probably love the results, or do I suggest alternatives? Few people go with that much spray foam, moisture, fire, and COST being the major concerns.
I'll let you read:
Don’t Let An Improper Foam Installation Spoil Your Dream Home | Greenspiration Home

and search on "Richard Beyer spray foam" few are more negative than he.

Bud
 
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Old 08-22-15, 07:06 AM
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Oh my gosh. Well, that's overwhelming. I have done quite a bit of reading on that link. I'll be doing more. Encouraging things are that ONE person said this is a 1% problem (I'd need more proof though) and that it's caused by inexperienced installers (I have confidence in the guy who came, who is experienced, but, he might send other people here to actually do the work..) Discouraging things - even if is only 1%, the removal of a bad job is akin to tearing down the house. Most discouraging: chemical off-gassing. Did I say I am really not into chemical things? I'm pretty picky about what I clean with and even shampoo with... in fact I will be asking my Naturapath about spray foam.

Poor husband; he told me this morning the estimate looks reasonable. He is glad about keeping the old floor, too. After telling him how FANTASTIC foam is and how we HAVE to use it, I could be telling him next how AWFUL foam is and how we CAN'T use it. And looking at tearing up that floor again...

I appreciate being pointed to the flip side of the insulating wonders of spray foam. I have a lot to think about... and a lot more learning. I'm now on the fence and won't be going anywhere til things are a lot more clear after a lot more learning.
 
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Old 08-22-15, 07:42 AM
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I'm an energy auditor so follow the related Linkedin threads and from what I'm reading, there is a move away from foam. One, it is rigid (closed cell) and over time can separate from the house reducing its effectiveness. Another is bad publicity. The reference to Richard Beyer (search Richard Beyer off gassing) will lead you to some of his rants related to a house burning down from a fire caused by a foam installation, all-be-it most likely related to a bad install, and off gassing. I can dig these out if you need. But even if your house turns out perfect, if foam for any number of reasons gets a bad rep, then future buyers of your property may decide to buy elsewhere.

There are places where spraying foam is the only reasonable solution, but for all others, a traditional insulation method can be perfect and less expensive.

One of the old benefits of spray foam was it air sealed as well as insulated. But new we can measure the air leakage and address that separately. New construction being easier than existing.

I do apologize for stirring the waters, but there is much to consider and sales people are often a poor source.

Bud
 
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Old 08-22-15, 11:42 AM
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Yes, well, it may well be back to the more complicated ideas suggested. Reputation for selling the house is a factor, to consider, but most of all its the possibility of off-gassing that concerns me. So I have more to learn. Soon.
 
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Old 08-24-15, 08:21 PM
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Can Spray Foam ever be used totally safely?

Hi, I just wanted to give an update, and any more input with where we are will help. We have two more contractors lined up to give us estimates for spray foam on Wed. and Thurs. this week. Truly the insulation performance of spray foam is impressive, but the off-gassing problems are frightening. I will have to understand how I can avoid off-gassing and know for certain if we are having it before we go with any of it. I am reading articles but I am not yet finding answers I can understand. I want to understand the risk.

I want to know if its possible that if it is done right there will be NO off-gassing.

Bud, the re-sale value of the house is actually not such a big deal to me - because if these spray-foam insulated houses can sometimes be no problem, and ours is not, then that's all that really matters. Also, the spray foam failing by pulling away from the joists is not great, but its not a threatening problem like off-gassing. So that is really the only issue that I am concerned with.


I wonder if its possible to test the air to see if off-gassing is occurring?

The author of the article you linked, Bud, says she likes her spray-foam insulation, that it worked fine for her, then she goes on to tell the problems others had.

My husband says he woudl like to do the spray foam under the porch floor, at least. I totally understand, as he clearly was hoping to save the floor to use as a subfloor, and contracting this out means he can go ahead and keep building. Which really matters to us. We really hope to have the room done before the cold sets in, and he is not where he hoped to be at this point. And I don't want him to feel pressured to hurry on this, and not enjoy the work (he enjoys it when he can work at his own pace). So an easier solution is really important. Yet, I sure don't want an unsafe solution.

In the past i have had asthma. I have also had pneumonia once, years ago (when I was working way too many hours and going to school). So the off-gassing thing scares me. I have worked in the past with a Naturapath and a Russian therapeutic breathing technique and have pretty much completely gotten rid of the asthma, but it begins to return very occasionally when I am not taking good enough care with my health. So I don't want to subject myself to an irritant.

I asked an installer on the phone today about off-gassing and he said its less than a new carpet. But, then, that's one of the reasons I don't want carpet.

I wonder if any tests are ever done with equipment that show when properly installed there is NO off-gassing. I would feel better about that. But one spray foam article said that it off-gases because its an amine, and its like a mothball, being a solid not a gas, so, it stays gassing off smells.

Furd's other ideas for insulating the floor sound very time-consuming. Spray foam is so easy. One idea is to do only the floor with spray foam.

Is it any LESS dangerous with the off-gassing if its just on the floor? Or, perhaps MORE because we would be heating it up i the winter with the electric heated floor?

If we know a certain way to ensure we are not gong to suffer from off-gassing then we want to go ahead with it. I think the other two guys coming to give us estimates as well as the first guy all have long experience. I wonder what questions I should ask them?

I also wonder if 24 hours is really ENOUGH to be away? Also, I wonder if I should tell my neighbors across the street (closets neighbors, to the south of us) that they might want to close their front windows that day?

I also wonder, does it get suddenly as hard as its going to get after 24 hours? Or, perhaps it does not dry completely, so, 48 hours later there is still off-gassing, and 72 hours, still, though less. Or a week, or a month later. How do I know its not off-gassing months later, even though I don't smell it? But my immune system is feeling it. I don't want to expose myself. That room will be our entry and side doors. We have another door on the other side of the house, which we are VERY reluctant to use since its in my mother's room and she has Alzheimer's so we keep it locked ALL the time (and we have gates up in the house ALL THE TIMES to keep her from the kitchen and thus out the other doors).

Thanks for reading this and giving any possible direction.
 
  #23  
Old 08-25-15, 05:40 AM
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The reason I have tried to provide links is because I have NO first had experience with foam issues. Once those articles started hitting the internet I started to wonder just as you, is this one of those problems that surfaces over time that can sink a ship. In the case of a contractor who installs many of these foam insulated homes the risk almost says , eventually one will have a problem. For an individual home owner it is one chance out of some much larger number.

The problems discussed range from a lingering small, health issues, and even a home burning down, but the cause seems to point towards a failure to install per mfg training. Since you seem to be leaning towards going with the foam here are my tips.

1. Be sure (as always) to get a certificate of insurance from the contractor prior to the work and contact that insurance company to be sure they cover related issues.
2. Discuss the option with your insurance co. We never really read all of the fine print and since they have the exposure they may have protected themselves.
3. Listen for the contractors advice concerning being home while this work is being done and if they recommend you vacate for some period of time, how long and why. Many articles say vacate and for a couple of days.
4. Be sure the workers installing the foam are the ones who were factory trained and not simply "on the job training" from one worker who took the class. Verify from the foam manufacturer what training they require.
5. At what level is off gassing acceptable? Just because you or they can't smell it does that mean it is safe? Different people have different levels of sensitivity and even those levels of sensitivity change.

I suspect all contractors will be aware of all of the articles you may read and will have explanations as to why their products will not have those problems.
One more link if you have not found it.
Spray Foam Jobs With Lingering Odor Problems | GreenBuildingAdvisor.com

Bud
 
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Old 08-26-15, 08:13 AM
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insulation to existing floor

First let me say Furd is on the right track. Renovations to any existing house or building are always difficult and typically 50% harder to do than when the house is being built. You are looking for a thermal barrier or break. Any materials you place under a floor you need to know what the smoke indices are, just how flammable it is. If the underside of the floor is earth, posts, bearers and joist then the area needs to breath or you will suffer from rising damp and or mould. Tiny gaps say ⅛ or 3/16th at junctions can be filled with a variety of materials easily applied. No easy way here, lift existing floor boards that can be reused. I would set an electric saw to floor board depth just and used a older blade (nails) to make some cross cuts start to pull the board up.Nail or screw trimmers to align with the bottom of the joists. Trimmers can be 1.5 inch square teated pine. By treated I mean white ant, termite and water resistant. Onto this can be laid a moisture resistant ply, use a wood glue to the trimmer before laying ply with a few small nails or pins from an air gun to hold in place. Now you have your cavity and the floor underneath can breath. I should also say use rust resistant nails and screws in any damp situation. You can buy hard insulation firegalss or equivalent panels with foil both sides, I would say about 3 inches thick in your case, lay this onto the ply. Don't use foam. Seal around the edges to the joists and at wall plates. You may need to add a trimmer at ends. Relay your original floor. Your bearers and joist configuration decide if a trimmer is needed at a join. Now you have air circulation under the floor and air tight cavities above. Into the cavity install fire glass panels with foil back both sides, this is premium insulation and can be cut to size with a decent tradies stanely knife. You make choose to put heating on top of the foil board, if not the on top of the original floor which can be battened with a x 1 wooden trim and the floor heating placed in the cavity with a floating floor ontop which can be bought at bigger hardware outlets.

Having said all this, if your adjoining room floor levels allow (step down) you can bead your floor as above, lay what is called thermal break, very dense poly rubber with foil one side and tack glue it to the original floor, 3 ply on top and lay a floating timber veneer floor. This would add approx 1.5 to 2 inches inches to your existing floor. The bigger job is the best way to get what you want and you are guaranteed of 100% success. Its used in snow country and in air-conditioned tropical housing and buildings. Shorts cuts never work and you ill be disappointed. I have done this work when restoring hoop pine hidden nailed floors in heritage housing, some over 100 years old. Looking at the photos its about a 2 / 3 day job for a carpenter. Ultimately its your decision. I hate auto correct.
 
  #25  
Old 08-26-15, 05:29 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 47
Hi, thanks, Bud and Tellme. Tellme, my husband is going to read what you wrote when I get off the computer here. Bud, its not that we have decided to go with foam. Making a choice was so overwhelming to me, especially with not knowing where to find important answers, like, how do you know its only 1% that has problems, and, how can you tell if dangerous off-gassing is present you can't smell? And how can you ensure your contractor doesn't do it wrong? With no answers to that yet, I put off deciding. Meanwhile people I called earlier are calling me back, so I made 2 appointments. To see how the numbers are and what I think of the contractors. (The guy who came today took one look at the shallow depth and said, "We can't do that". (understandable!) We are leaning toward at least just the floor, and that first guy said he could do it. My husband said he must have a very skinny worker. Also, the foam would not go to the ground. Just under the floor. If we decide to do any foam at all, that is.

Thanks Bud for the sensible advice as far as asking the contractors. I would like my husband to be here in a hazmat suit/ventilator, while I get my Mom out of here. He is willing, but I want him to be quite sure to wear protection. That is, if we go with it at all. We really should know exactly what is happening, how to prevent problems, and observe all that's done.
 
  #26  
Old 08-26-15, 06:41 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 9,992
Are you familiar with the term "certificate of insurance"? As a contractor, when my customer requests I provide proof of insurance I call my agent and give her the name and address. She mails the certificate of insurance directly to my customers. The certificate list what coverage types and amounts I have and effective dates. The certificate does not come from the contractor to be sure that it is really a policy from an insurance co.

If the workers are employees they should be included in his policy. If he is hiring them as sub-contractors then each sub should provide his/her own certificates.

For more specifics, talk to your home owners ins co as they will be more familiar with any state specific requirements.

The above doesn't apply only to foam contractors, but any contractor that works on your property.

Bud
 
  #27  
Old 08-27-15, 09:06 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Posts: 47
Thanks you for the tip, Bud. No I had not heard of that and if we do use a foam contractor at all, we will do that just as you said.
 
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