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Possible insulation and venting issues....where did my snow go?

Possible insulation and venting issues....where did my snow go?


  #41  
Old 03-16-16, 04:09 PM
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Started sealing the ducts today....its not as hard as I thought it would be.

2 things:

The trunk is just resting on the joists, so I can lift it a little bit to get tape and mastic underneath. This should also help when installing the duct wrap since I should be able to feed it under

There arent very many seams....most of the trunk is straight, there are 3 90s in it and thats it. I basically sealed every joint where they use the sliding pieces to draw the trunk sections together (S-clips, I want to say?)

There are 8 flex takeoffs from the trunk....6 of them are stretched pretty good per the instructions Ive found on the net. I fixed 1 of the 2 that werent stretched correctly but ran out of mastic so Ill fix the 2nd one after I get more.

Re the duct wrap - some parts of the trunk are on top of plywood thats nailed to the joists....if I remove that plywood, is the duct wrap enough to insulate the joists from transferring noise/vibration down through the ceiling? If so, Ill try to remove all of the plywood that I can....but I cant make any promises (Im slowly running out of energy to deal with a warm/hot attic!)
 
  #42  
Old 03-16-16, 04:54 PM
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Hard to comment on the noise issue, use best judgement.
All sounds good. This is the right season to be working up there.

Bud
 
  #43  
Old 03-18-16, 05:30 AM
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Made some progress - checked all of the flex takeoffs and the ducts themselves to make sure they were stretched (less friction loss). They arent really long runs, maybe 10-15', but there were 3 or 4 that were pretty "slack".....cut them off the metal takeoffs, stretched the flex and reinstalled. I was able to remove 12-18" of flex from each...maybe not a WHOLE lot but they are definitely installed better now.

We have (very old) can lights in the closet of each bedroom. Im going to replace them with ICAT tonight/this weekend.

Question about insulating them - since they are not truly airtite, should I build a box around them before blowing insulation?

Or can I just blow cellulose right over them and let the weight of it do the work of making them airtight?

Im using LED trims in them so the heat generated should be fairly low (plus they are closets so they dont get used much)....Im more worried about air tightness than heat causing issues.
 
  #44  
Old 03-18-16, 06:14 AM
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They should be fairly well air sealed but if you feel they are not then some form of enclosure could be used. Cellulose is not a complete air block as air slowly finds its way through.

Even though the LEDs will generate less heat i would still use drywall for the box. Glue or some pine at the corners. Just not all foam despite its insulating properties, my opinion.

Bud
 
  #45  
Old 03-18-16, 06:41 AM
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Thanks.

Not sure if I want to build the box or not, but if I do it will be from drywall (I know foam technically needs a fireblock so Ill just use drywall to start)
 
  #46  
Old 03-20-16, 03:29 PM
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A couple pics of what I was referring to as a "knee wall":

As you can see, right now there is fiberglass batt insulation that looks to be just friction fit into the stud cavities. Since there is no depth limit, its not standard r-13 wall insulation but Im not quite sure what size it is. Do I just leave it there? Try to staple some "netting" in there to make sure it stays put? Or something else (i.e. spray foam, etc)?



In the following pic with the wall facing straight at the camera, thats the wall thats "cut" in half by the slope of the cathedral ceiling. The current insulation was cut at an angle so that its only insulating the wall thats interior to the house. The uninsulated portion is the part of the wall thats exterior to the house.



Should there be insulation on the portion that is exterior to the house? And same question as previous: should I leave it fiberglass or use something different?

Thanks, yet again!
 
  #47  
Old 03-20-16, 03:51 PM
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Yuck, that is so typical. Obviously there are economic concerns and some would just cover what is there with something like Tyvek. It performs as an air barrier but is vapor permeable.
Personally, I would put on a respirator, gloves, and start filling plastic bags. Follow that with a van with hepa filter or discharging to the outside. One or two hours work and you will be able to breathe in there without concern.

Then, fill those cavities flush and cover them. If you want more r-value, then cover the attic side with more insulation. What and how much to be determined.

While everything is empty you will be able to air seal as needed as well as below the kneewall, if needed, see link on kneewalls and note the air block below.

Two Ways to Insulate Attic Kneewalls - Fine Homebuilding Article

I would use Roxul as it fits very well and is very dense.

Bud
 
  #48  
Old 03-20-16, 04:02 PM
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Im actually already pulling insulation out....havent uploaded the pics but the whole attic had plenty of fiberglass there already. It was just in dribs and drabs....some spots had 3 layers, some spots had 2, some spots had 1 (whatever was in the joists). Ive done some work adding electrical boxes, etc through the years so some of the fiberglass was pretty chewd up and displaced. The goal is to remove ALL of it, airseal, then blow in a full R49-R60. You were right, though: respirator, gloves, plastic bags. Keeps most of the dust in the attic then I just toss the plastic bags onto my patio for disposal at our transfer station (its allowed). Right now all thats left is what is in the joist cavities. Its in there pretty well, Im almost considering leaving it and blowing cellulose right over, but after coming this far I want to make sure I do the best job possible. Since Im doing this myself, labor is "free", so extra material costs arent really a big deal.

The walls you see are finished on the other side, they arent open to anything in the house so there wont be dust getting into living space from taking out the existing. My question was if I remove that, do I put fiberglass back in....completely forgot about Roxul, Ive used it before and I remember how stiff it is so it should hold up by itself. Ill plan on that then.

EDIT: added pics taken on the interior of the house. The black outlines correspond to what you see in the attic pics above. First pic is of the vertical wall, second pic is of the wall that is "sliced" by the cathedral ceiling






Once its in, SHOULD I cover it with something like Tyvek on the attic side?
 

Last edited by chrisexv6; 03-20-16 at 04:22 PM.
  #49  
Old 03-20-16, 04:38 PM
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Yes, cover the exposed insulation on the attic side. And Tyvek is often used.

Bud
 
  #50  
Old 03-21-16, 06:04 AM
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Another question - inside the attic at the top of the vertical wall (first pic from inside the attic), you can see the joist bays created by the sloped ceiling portion where the ceiling fan is installed. In there are fiberglass batts....it looks like just a 2x4 bay so maybe R13? They are quite black (i.e. filtering air from somewhere). Is that venting from the cathedral portion of the ceiling? Or is it just air leakage?

Wanted to know because Im wondering if I should pull the bats out and try to dense pack cellulose in, with or without baffles slid in place. Im not sure if its an integral part of venting the cathedral ceiling or not, though.
 
  #51  
Old 03-21-16, 07:18 AM
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There should be soffit venting coming into the side attic space and then a space above the insulation on the slope to allow that air to flow up to the top flat space and out the ridge or gable vents. The black as you suspect is due to the fiberglass insulation filtering the dirt out of that incoming air. Attic ventilation is primarily low vents to high vents. Some summer conditions may reverse that, but minimal air flow when it occurs.

From your picture it is hard to tell, but those look like 2x6's (5.5) and it would be common to install 3.5" insulation to allow some air flow above it. Not the best r-value with air moving over the fiberglass, but difficult to improve. With baffles all the way to the top and filled with cellulose you would gain some. What is the length of the cavities in question?

I had a tight space over my top plate where I wanted more insulation so I was able to insert 2' of 1" rigid and then used a technique to force it down to where I could insert 1" spacers on each side. This added the r-value of the rigid to a slightly compressed fiberglass, but eliminated the air flow over the top plate. I'm addressing the total r-value from the inside so didn't need to run the rigid all the way up.

Bud
 
  #52  
Old 03-21-16, 07:45 AM
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I will get accurate measurements tonight. On the exterior of the roof there is a ridge vent at the peak of the cathedral, which I believe is also the peak of the joist cavities in question. I just didnt want to risk cutting off the cathedral from venting to that ridge vent by filling the cavities. If thats the way it is working and I can figure out a way to block deep into the cavity (without cutting off the flow to the ridge vent) I feel like I can vastly improve the situation.

I havent looked all the way into one of hte cavities, I might be able to see the edge of baffles from the cathedral (when the roof was replaced 3 years ago I had the roofer pull a couple sheathing boards off to verify the cathedral is vented correctly and he did just that and said all the baffles are in place, etc), then at least Ill know how far I can go in while avoiding any blockage. I figure best case scenario is that I can slide baffles into the joist cavity then blow in cellulose to hold them up against the underside of the roof. They wont be stapled in but they shouldnt move with the insulation holding them up.
 
  #53  
Old 03-21-16, 08:11 AM
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Your description sounded like there are already baffles in there. If so I would expect they go bottom open space to top open space.

Bud
 
  #54  
Old 03-21-16, 09:16 AM
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No baffles, 2x6 joist cavity with kraft faced insulation stapled in.

The cavities are about 4' "deep" and seem to end with another 2x at the end of them....couldnt pull out a piece of the batt yet to see if I can tell if the ridge vent is at the end of each cavity or not.

Also, there is no vapor barrier on the back of the drywall and the seams between the ceiling drywall and vertical drywall are nowhere near airtight (I can see light through them)

Pic attached....you can kinda see the 2x at the far end of the flashlight beam

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  #55  
Old 03-21-16, 10:51 AM
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Trying to shake my confusion here so I went back to the pictures, and, there is no flat area at the top, my mistake. The ceiling fan is installed at the peak and there is a ridge beam. That would mean each cavity will end at the ridge beam. You are looking at the shorter slope section as you can't see into the long one, I'm assuming.

In relation to your pictures with the black frame, where is your flashlight pointing?

Bud
 
  #56  
Old 03-21-16, 11:02 AM
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Its pointing at the peak from where the ceiling fan is hanging. Yes, I can only see into the short cavities.

The flashlight itself is at the top of the black box in the pic with the ceiling fan pointed upwards at the peak.

The cathedral slope is extreme (as you can see), and the peak where the ceiling fan is hanging is where it meets the slope for the back part of the roof (which is a standard roof slope). The first 4' of the normal slope roof is that finished ceiling you see in the pic with the ceiling fan.

If you are correct about the ridge beam (I think you are, it makes sense) then I could just completely fill those cavities. Just had an energy audit at our house and those guys had foam guns with really long extensions........would have been perfect for them to seal up at the ridge beam had I known it needed to be done.
 
  #57  
Old 03-21-16, 12:02 PM
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Old school, which has worked for many years is to ventilate those cavities. Filling them with air permeable insulation is a disaster waiting to be discovered.

You said, I thought, that you have a ridge vent. If so, it needs a path to allow air from the soffits to make its way under the roof deck out that ridge vent. The link below isn't exactly your situation, but that picture could be yours if you don't ventilate.

I confess I'm still lost on your pictures, perhaps others have it sorted out. But I need a perspective and with the varied slopes and the up close pictures, I'm not getting it. Thought I was until i tried to identify just what is in that cavity. I'm a slow learner.

Bud

How to Build an Insulated Cathedral Ceiling | GreenBuildingAdvisor.com
 
  #58  
Old 03-21-16, 12:21 PM
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No, its not you. I havent found a similar instance on the web yet.

Most cathedral ceilings seem to be mirrors of each other on the front and back (i.e. a 45 degree slope up the front and the same slope back)

Mine is the extreme slope up the front peaking to where the ceiling fan is on the inside. At that peak it turns into a normal roof in the rear of the house, with the first 4' or so exposed as interior ceiling (the slight downward slope with the cavities we are talking about right now)

If you look outside, there is ridge vent above the peak of the cathedral, which I believe corresponds to the drywall joint where the ceiling fan is installed inside the house. To me, this means all venting for the cathedral goes from the bottom of the cathedral roof to that first peak where the fan is. The short downward slope we see inside the house is basically just an interior ceiling with a 2x6 joist cavity between it and the roof decking.

As far as intake for the cathedral venting goes, I know for a fact at the bottom of the cathedral, on the exterior, there is special vent grill material installed...I watched my roofers install it.

The question would be what side of the "beam" is the cathedral ridge vent on....is it fully contained behind (i.e. where I cant see from looking up the cavities in the short peak) or is it on the side I CAN see, so Id need to leave air space, or a third possibility: does it vent DOWN the short peak into the attic?
 
  #59  
Old 03-21-16, 01:53 PM
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The opening for the ridge vent is normally cuts back on both sides of the ridge beam, so you should have air flow on the short side as well. It does vent down to the side attic and that space should have soffit vents for intake. Here's a picture:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pict...et1FcKK6RKM%3A
 
  #60  
Old 03-21-16, 05:17 PM
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Pulled the fiberglass out of the first few cavities and it does look like at least some of them have indications of being vented right at the top. Its not a huge cutout but it looks like its there (in fact one of them had a piece of old shingle in it)

Im thinking Ill shove some sort of baffle in there, then blow in cellulose under the baffle....I dont think I can get it to pack in enough that it would collapse the baffle (especially something like an AccuVent). Is that a decent plan? Or should I just shove a baffle in there and then shove the fiberglass batt back in?

Also curious why this wasnt done to begin with. Some of the cavities are even "plugged" on the attic side with a small roll of fiberglass. The insulation in the cavities is a little dirty but not black dirty....I would figure if air were venting or was SUPPOSED to be, the batts would be black.
 
  #61  
Old 03-21-16, 05:40 PM
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IMO, blowing insulation into those cavities would risk blocking the vent at the top.
I can think of several ways to slide some Roxul in there if you go that way. What is the length of those cavities?

Bud
 
  #62  
Old 03-21-16, 05:44 PM
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4 feet or so...I had a yard stick I used to poke an Accuvent baffle in there and it was probably about a foot off the corner joint when I pushed it all the way in. I know Roxul comes in 47" lengths, I think each one would be perfect for one of those cavities. 1 bundle of the 2x4 or 2x6 stuff would probably do all of them (I havent counted how many there are)

I figured with the baffle up against the roof decking it would retain a path for venting. Is that not the case? If not, Im pretty sure I could get Roxul in there too (maybe not the 2x6 stuff easily but definitely the 2x4 stuff)

BTW, so far the biggest PITA in this project has been wrapping the duct work! Such a pain trying to lift it up slightly, slide the wrap under it and avoid any 2x4s across the joists, etc.
 
  #63  
Old 03-22-16, 04:59 AM
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@Chris "I figured with the baffle up against the roof decking it would retain a path for venting. Is that not the case?" Correct, plus the baffles will keep the new insulation away from any nails making it easier to slid the insulation in.

Bud
 

Last edited by Bud9051; 03-22-16 at 04:59 AM. Reason: fat fingers
  #64  
Old 03-22-16, 05:07 AM
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Thanks again.

For a 2x6 cavity with a baffle, should I go with 2x4 insulation? Wasnt sure I could compress 2x6 Roxul down enough to slide in easily.

Further - for the vertical portions of those walls, since there is no "back", what thickness Roxul should I use? I was thinking 2x6 or even 2x8 but the 2x8 stuff is hard to find locally.
 

Last edited by chrisexv6; 03-22-16 at 05:39 AM.
  #65  
Old 03-22-16, 06:01 AM
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I have some 6" batts open so went in there and played with one and easily compressed an inch or so. For the limited number you will be using, even if you had to trim (they trim easily) off an inch the thicker would give you a better fit, especially since you want to hold the baffles in place with the insulation.

As for "further up, still not sure what that is, but keeping the insulation in contact with the framing or other insulation to prevent gaps is important.

Bud
 
  #66  
Old 03-22-16, 06:20 AM
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The "further" meant another question.

In the pics from post 46 you see the vertical walls with insulation (barely) installed. Since the backs of the walls are open to the attic, technically I can put any thickness insulation I want which I will be following up with house wrap stapled/fir-stripped onto the existing studs. 2x6 would make it easier since Id be using it for the joist cavities as well, but 2x8 would give me a higher R-value. I believe the framing is standard 2x4.
 
  #67  
Old 03-22-16, 09:17 AM
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2x6 will do fine. Trim some pieces to fill over the studs to reduce the loss through the studs. Add some nailing strips somewhere to attach the house wrap.

Upgrading 80 ft² of exterior surface from r-22 to r-30 would save about $2 per year.

Bud
 
  #68  
Old 03-22-16, 10:11 AM
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Awesome, will go with 2x6 for everything then.

Still plenty of work left but Ive ordered the insulation for delivery next week sometime....having 100+ bags of insulation in my driveway is a good kick in the a$$ to finish!
 
  #69  
Old 03-24-16, 06:29 AM
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Almost done (finally!) with wrapping the main trunk.

Two questions: I can get the plywood out from underneath all of the trunk. At that point, some of it will not have support underneath it. Is the vinyl covered strapping material you can get at big box stores acceptable for hanging the rigid metal trunk duct?

And, the flex takeoffs from the trunk - they are all insulated flex (R-6). I automatically figured I would just blow cellulose right over them.....is that acceptable? Or should I figure out a way to keep additional insulation off of them (for condensation, etc. reasons)?

They are not suspended in the attic, they just rest on the top of the joists as they go to the supply registers. They are all run on a slight angle off the trunk to the supply, presumably to avoid having them sitting directly on the ceiling drywall.
 
  #70  
Old 03-24-16, 07:14 AM
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I've always used metal straps to hang stuff in an attic. If the vinyl covered is metal with just the vinyl covering and not just solid vinyl, I see no problem.

Yes, you can cover those flex feeds as long as they are supported and the insulation will not load them down.

Bud
 
  #71  
Old 03-25-16, 05:22 PM
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Duct wrap complete! (FINALLY!) Did the best I could, didnt realize this would be even harder than installing the vent baffles.

Also started pulling out some of the last layer of insulation and just for an easy job I looked at air sealing the top plates. Most of them have the vapor barrier leading up to the top plate then going UNDER it, so the gap between the ceiling drywall and top plate are actually covered by the barrier.

Do I slice it open to spray foam the gap, then tape back over it? Or do I just spray foam into the gap so that the plastic ends up underneath the spray foam? I see pros and cons of each method, wasnt sure which is the best. Or maybe even doing that wont help anything because of the vapor barrier? Not sure.

Thanks.

-Chris
 
  #72  
Old 03-25-16, 07:06 PM
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If they sealed the Vb around electrical boxes and didn't poke it full of holes, any air on the outside of the barrier should be "outside" air and if it reaches the top plate it is still outside. It would be inside air coming up between the plastic and the ceiling drywall. So if the plastic is folded over the top plate it is fine, Any sealing would be at the edge of the ceiling drywall.

Bud
 
  #73  
Old 03-30-16, 10:39 AM
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Working on reinsulating those knee walls.

Replaced the fiberglass with Roxul and vent baffles above it. Currently looking at what to do with the vertical portions.

Every picture/DIY Ive seen on insulating knee walls says to install blocking at the top and bottom of the vertical portion. Should I be doing that?

The bottom of the wall ends as a joist, its not a knee wall over an attic joist that is then open to the other side of the attic, so I wasnt sure if blocking is required. I may add it just to allow for a 47" batt to fit the space, then I would blow cellulose in under the blocking. The Tyvek would be caulked to that blocking at the top and bottom to seal the whole thing in.
 
  #74  
Old 03-30-16, 06:50 PM
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Can you get that rebate on a DIY job?
If not, sounds like they get the job, unless I'm missing some numbers.

Bud
 
  #75  
Old 03-31-16, 03:35 AM
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No, no rebate if I diy.

My issue with letting them do it isn't the money as much as it is the unknown of what kind of job I'll actually get. Wasnt overly impressed with how they handled the energy audit and the information provided in the "report" afterwards. Figured that would somehow translate into an inhalation job I might not trust.

They also aren't including any air sealing, venting, redoing the knee walls, etc. It's basically I do all the hard work and they blow in r60. At that point id rather just finish the job myself... At least I know for sure what I'll get.

I'm sure they would do all the extras for a fee but I didn't all because im sure that's where it will really add up. For example, the rebate only applies to installation of new insulation. So to remove the existing fiberglass they wanted 1.00/sq ft, about $1000.00. Now I know its not the cleanest and easiest thing to do, but a 15.00 box of plastic bags and 4 dump runs at $5.00 each and Ive gotten rid of 90% of it. I just cant see paying $1000.00 for something that cost me a few hours and 35.00.
 

Last edited by chrisexv6; 03-31-16 at 05:14 AM.
  #76  
Old 03-31-16, 06:12 AM
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One of the realities of DIY is we often place a low value on our time and a high value on the quality of our work. Guilty as stated. In time we learn what we should job out. I agree it sucks they won't do all the extras at a reasonable price, but all too often the rebate programs get used as bait to get the jobs which then inflate as other work is needed.

Since you are comfortable doing the extras, then do that and then consider having them blow in the cellulose, especially if the rebate is going to pay for most of it. It would be hard for them to do a terrible job. Install yard sticks in far corners where they won't knock them over (screwed to a vertical 2x4) so you can judge the depth without walking through the insulation. Hang market ribbons from the ceiling over electrical boxes and can lights. And. have the walkway down the middle if possible.

At r-60 you will be extremely happy. Take a ton of before pictures of the house and ceiling to identify and misplaced steps that damage the drywall and they will be in and out very quickly.

Ask for a certificate of insurance to be sure the company and all employees are are covered for liability and workers comp and have yourself listed on the policy. Talk to your homeowners ins agent if you want to be sure all is covered.

Also, consider getting other bids since you aren't 100% confident with them.

Bud
 
  #77  
Old 03-31-16, 07:12 AM
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Unfortunately its too late 105 bundles of cellulose just delivered and sitting in my garage.

Ive asked for a few other quotes from other places. One of them actually told me its not worth it, didnt even come out to give a quote. Another was the guy pushing spray foam (talked about earlier in this thread). There are a few fly-by-night places that I could ask but I REALLY dont trust them (ever hear of Connecticut Basement? same CEO has an "Energy" savings company that does insulation). Still another put a really high cost on it (2x the quote I got from the energy audit co) and that didnt include taking out the existing fiberglass. Ive seen it happen around here before.....a lot of businesses dont want to talk unless you have a really large job to do, but these same businesses will go under because of lack of customers, makes perfect sense..... BTW the rebate from the energy audit co covers about 40% of the cost. 2400 before rebate, 1400 after. The actual insulation material cost is 700.

I imagine I could find an odd-jobber that would blow the stuff in without a problem but Id rather not go that route.

As far as what my time is worth, the more time I spend in the attic the more I agree....Im definitely undervaluing its worth, but at this point most of the work is already done so I might as well just finish it off. I can get the machine for a few days (HD already said I could keep it for free because I bought so much insulation) so even if I have to spread the blowing out over 3 days its not a big deal.
 
  #78  
Old 03-31-16, 07:38 AM
B
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Well, I admire your DIY persistence and from this thread I'm sure you will enjoy every comfortable, economical second living there. My deep retrofit is only half done and this winter was the most comfortable ever. And we still got a lot of cold weather despite the help from mother nature.

As for the "bait" issue, my energy auditing work (now retired) has evolved into consulting to so I can help the home owners around here sort out the BS all too many are getting, and provide any special services they might need/want, like a blower door assisted air sealing effort. My story is far too long so I'll leave it here and be watching for your progress.

Bud
 
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Old 03-31-16, 07:44 AM
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Thanks for the encouragement!

A lot of people I know look at me like I have 2 heads when I tell them what Im doing. Most of those people are telling me Ill never get a payback on the investment, but they dont realize Im not doing it for payback (although Im sure it will save a little $$$ eventually).

Im doing this for the increased comfort. There arent a whole ton of ceiling penetrations to fill, but as seen in the beginning of this thread the attic probably wasnt venting correctly. My guess is it was pulling conditioned air through wherever it could vs through the soffit and gable vents like it should have been. Fixing that alone should increase comfort at least a little. Having about double the insulation (consistently, not spotty like before) will help at least a little as well. Correctly venting that knee wall should help a little more. Add it all up and its a lot of comfort that I didnt necessarily have before.

As far as actual energy savings, looking at our past heating and electrical bills (even when on oil), my house was quite efficient for what it is. I look forward to seeing what the new bills would be once the real work is complete but thats not my primary goal with this job.

Im pretty resigned to the fact that Ill be in this house for another 30+ years, so doing these jobs now are not "throw aways". Id rather get it done now and enjoy it for 30 years then wait another 10 and regret not doing it now.
 
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Old 04-01-16, 04:43 PM
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Ill take some pics tomorrow before we start blowing (insulation!) but I just finished up.

All soffits have a vent baffle.

There is little to no fiberglass left (whats left is small chunks that I might try to vacuum up tomorrow if I feel motivated).

Trunk duct is wrapped the best I could do. Im sure its better than OK but I know its not perfect. Ill try to touch up some spots tomorrow if I can find/access them.

Air sealed all the top caps I could get to, along with all of the ceiling penetrations I could find (can lights, ceiling fans/fixtures, etc).

Roxul installed on the knee walls with 1 layer of Tyvek....I still have to finish off the top layer but Im not sure what I should do about blocking at the top of the knee walls, so I left it open for now. The bottom blocking and Tyvek was more important because Ill be covering at least some of it over with cellulose.

I trimmed down my plan for a lifted version of the walkway like we had before because my ceiling joists are only 2x6 and I was worried the dead load from the large amount of 2x8 framing on top of it would cause sagging. As such I built up about a 4'x5' rectangle just for basic storage.

All thats left is to tidy up with a vacuum, tack up some rulers, put up some plywood as insulation dams, plastic off the attic stairs opening and go to town with the blower. Oddly enough, that feels like the EASY part at this point.
 
 

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