Spray foam or "CleanSpace"

Reply

  #1  
Old 12-11-19, 12:46 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 338
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Spray foam or "CleanSpace"

I received estimates for crawl space insulation for both traditional spray foam and Clean Space (https://www.basementsystems.com/craw...leanspace.html).

First, does anyone have any thoughts on the two products? Assuming I'm getting a good amount/type of spray foam (which I'm not really specifically asking about here), are the two products comparable in terms of their performance?

As for pricing, before getting the estimates I thought the cleanspace estimate would be really high (just based on the type of product it is), but it's actually a lot less than the spray foam. That being said, the spray foam would have been a couple hundred less but there is a part of the crawl space that's hard to access so they charged a bit more for the time/etc. involved in that portion. The cleanspace people didn't seem to care that it was a difficult spot.

In any case, the cleanspace estimate shows 172 'units' (plus a few accessories) for about $1,700. I'm not entirely sure what a unit is.

Spray foam is $2,200:

ICYNENE PROSEAL LE 3" R21
-R21 onto walls of crawl space. Cover poly rolled up the wall.
Crawlspace Dura Skrim 20 Mil High Strength White Gloss POLY Reinforced Liner with Taped Seams
-Poly over floor and rolled 6" up wall on exterior walls. Cover exterior walls with foam.


The space is about 44' long by 6' high by 4' wide.

Thanks for any thoughts!
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 12-11-19, 01:10 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 23,768
Received 283 Votes on 259 Posts
Well you might be comparing apples and oranges.

Clean Space is not an insulation, it's just a poly barrier. And I would assume your "units" are just the sq ft of floor area. So unless the Clean Space bid also included some form of insulation, it's just a bid for encapsulation.

With the spray foam bid, the Dura Skrim is a similar product to the clean space product. So I would assume anywhere they say "poly" they mean Dura Skrim.

As far as how Dura Skrim and Clean Space compare, you would have to compare the testing and puncture resistance data to know the difference... assuming they are even tested by the same criteria. A little googling should get you there.
 
  #3  
Old 12-11-19, 01:31 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 338
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thank you very much. So the clean space would have no affect on temperature (or at least nothing compared to what the insulation would do), correct?

As far as moisture, would the insulation do anything to keep moisture out (even if not quite as much as clean space)? It sounds like it would based on the dura skrim. Though as you mentioned, w/o testing, we wouldn't know exactly how much better one is vs. the other.

In short, for the extra $500, it sounds like the spray foam with dura skrim is the better option as it's both insulation and moisture barrier, as opposed to clean space which is just moisture barrier, correct?

Thanks again!
 
  #4  
Old 12-11-19, 01:41 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 23,768
Received 283 Votes on 259 Posts
Just putting Clean space on the floor and walls will not affect the temperature, no. If your goal is to help the crawlspace (and kitchen floor) stay warmer (closer to ground soil temp even in winter) then you need to insulate the exterior walls and rim joists. Current code for crawlspaces is to insulate them. Yes, foam is usually also a class II vapor retarder.

Based on the way the estimate reads, the Dura Skrim is only going on the floor and up the wall 6", then it is covered with the spray foam. While the clean space (no insulation) is going all the way up. But regardless, the bid with insulation is better because it will help accomplish what you're after.
 
  #5  
Old 12-11-19, 01:48 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 338
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thank you again. Is that normal for the skrim to only go up 6" (which I do recall him mentioning)? Should I get an estimate for it to go higher? Or not necessary as the foam itself is also a vapor retarder, and of course goes all the way up? The rim joists were foam sprayed several years ago.
 
  #6  
Old 12-11-19, 01:53 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 23,768
Received 283 Votes on 259 Posts
It is not necessary. Part of the purpose of poly is durability. You dont crawl around on the walls.
 
  #7  
Old 12-11-19, 02:47 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 338
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Great, thank you again! I'll do my best to stay off the walls (can't control the kids though!).
 
  #8  
Old 12-19-19, 07:57 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 338
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Quick follow-up (not directly related to this particular thread but essentially it's related):

I bought one of those Seek thermal cameras to connect to my phone, and have discovered some incredible cold/leaky spots in my cold kitchen. Underneath the dishwasher is very cold, inside my cabinets (on the outside wall) are cold, a couple of other spots under the baseboard on the outside wall are cold, and my light switches (again, on the outside wall) are very cold, and one of those switches is extremely drafty (I can feel it if I put my hand under it).

Could my cold kitchen have nothing to do with the crawl space/mini-basement beneath it (47 degrees right now on a 13 degree day), but instead be totally (certainly it's partial but is it totally) due to poor insulation in the outside wall (or something along those lines)?

Or is it more likely the colder area underneath causing cold air to get sucked up the walls and then coming out into the kitchen?

Thanks again.
 
  #9  
Old 12-19-19, 09:00 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 23,768
Received 283 Votes on 259 Posts
Thermal imaging can be helpful but unless you are ready to completely tear the house apart and make some major improvements, that knowledge is just going to drive you crazy. The house has always been the way it is now, and your exterior walls would likely take a lot of work to make much of an improvement.

Whether or not it's the walls or crawlspace depends, and it could be some of both. When its 13F outside and 70F inside, the median temperature is about 42F. So imo it's not surprising if you are finding some interior temperatures near that.

On the other hand, if your crawlspace is 45F... and the kitchen is 70F, you can see which is the bigger direction of heat loss. Difference is that exterior uninsulated foundation walls will basically be whatever the exterior temperature is. The ground is the heat source and is keeping that air relatively warm. And drafty uninsulated rim joists can allow cold air to constantly wash under the floor, pulling heat away and making them feel cold.

But part of the reason those areas in your kitchen are cold is because they are not near the heat source, or the heat source is blocked. It's not going to be as warm inside the cabinets as outside because the cabinet doors are closed. It's not going to be warm behind your appliances because they are blocking the heat, so its colder behind them than it is in front. Outlets can be drafty but they also dont have much insulation behind them and can have gaps around them. Bottom plates that aren't sealed to the subflooring will be drafty on windy days. And we have no idea how well (or poorly) insulated your walls are.

But even if the walls are poorly insulated or you have drafty bottom plates, you cant really fix that without gutting the cabinets and drywall. (And I doubt you are going to do that)

If this is a 100 year old house, it's possible there isn't any insulation in the walls at all, and it could be blown in. No way for us to know all that.

You have also never mentioned if your kitchen floor is insulated or not.
 
  #10  
Old 12-19-19, 09:45 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 338
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks so much for the detailed response. House is 50 years old, exterior wall of kitchen is about 20 years ago (prior owners extended it out a few feet).

Kitchen floors I assume are not insulated.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: