To rbisys; RE Radiance


Old 12-05-01, 03:48 AM
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To rbisys; RE Radiance

Hi, was willing to bite the bullet and buy Radiance! Not in Cleveland, O. you won't!!

The 1st Sherwin Williams, didn't know a thing about it, although the name was on their computer. Had to wait that time for the "manager" to get back from lunch. Took several days, and then had to wait over the weekend for more info. He still didn't know anything and wanted a copy of the web page, so he can get "it" off of there.

The 2nd won't handle it, too much trouble with the color and shelf life, etc.

The 3rd has a fax number, not a phone number.

So e-mailed the company, and went back and forth a bit, having to repeat myself. Now I have been waiting over a week for the "district sales manager" to get back to me. I have the room apart, but thankfully didn't haul furniture out. 2 weeks before Christmas, etc. If you have inside connections, still would like to try it! But think if they are trying to get a new product on the market, they sure need to do a better job.

Thanks for your help, though.
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Old 12-06-01, 03:07 PM
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Greetings, Doriss

The product has been on the market for a few years.

I'll see if I can be of any help, although it might take a few days, I'm in the middle of a new home job, trying to get the people in by next week.

Regarding the store problems, You can have the best product in the world and there are people who should want to help and don't. Believe my, I know the feeling and experience.
Old 12-18-01, 01:47 PM
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Hi Doris,
I had the same experience here in Birmingham, AL. The only
Sherwin Williams dealer near that is authorized to carry Radiance is in Pelham, AL. They did not stock it either so I placed an order for the paint on Oct 29 and finally got it on Nov 20 after repeated calls and a threat to cancel the order. I did have my bedroom apart and some furniture moved out so I was quite angry that it was taking so long to get the paint.

Everytime I called the mgr. I got a different delivery date so on Fri
Nov 16 I cancelled the order. the mgr called me back to say she had spoken with the supervisor of shipping at Radiance and they had shipped my order that day and that it would be free of charge.

I've painted my bedroom and noticed a small difference in the comfort level of the room as opposed to the other cold room in my house.

I'm not sure if it was worth the wait though it saved me $70 for 2 gallons of paint.

Old 12-19-01, 08:54 AM
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I contacted Radiance and left a message concerning these problems.

The person to talk to if there is a problem is Steve Mittelstaedt @ 800-766 6776.

It's unfortunate that many a good product has gone down the tubes because the dealers don't think it's worth the time. I can't imagine a large company not making a timley shipment if ordered in time.

This paint will not cause a big change in the performance but usually enough as DIY commented. I recommend that other radiant products be installed over the existing attic insulation, crawl spaces and basement walls. These areas make the biggest difference and incombination with paint you should see a considerable difference, not to mention, lower energy bills. Radiance should perform as good or better than a 3" FG batt.

If a home owner is going to side their house then a RB can be installed under the siding. You can also furr out interior walls with 1x2 and install a single layer. This will give VERY good results considering the small protrusion into the room.

Thanks for considering my opinion.
Old 12-20-01, 01:56 AM
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Angry Not again!

I have been away from this forum for awhile and see you are still up to your evil ways and are contiuing to misinform people.
I wish you would respond to my comments with straight facts and not conspiracy theories every time I question the information you are providing. It is disturbing to see that people are being duped by your incomplete and misleading information.
As I've said in previous posts you are not giving the whole story.

"Radiance should perform as good or better than a 3" FG batt. "

Again you fail to mention the fact that you are refering only to FG's ability to reflect radiant heat. You don't mention the fact that there are other forms of heat transfer that RB does not do as well at.
I welcome the opportunity to learn something here, but do not have the patience for a long winded discussion on how the gov't and the FG industry are conspiring against the RB concept.

From a previous post:

For any one interested in the US Gov't take on this subject, I refer you to:

A couple of quotes from their site:

"It may also be worth noting that a very glossy white paint is within10% of as good reflector of heat as most of the common radiant barriers currently available in residential construction."

"Two field tests, one in Minnesota and one in Canada, both found that a radiant barrier placed over R-19 attic floor insulation (which is less than half the DOE minimum recommendation for those climates,) found that the radiant barrier contributed to less than a 1% reduction in energy consumption for heating and cooling."
Old 12-22-01, 04:05 AM
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Greetings, greg

Look, you're throwing out material that is the very face of it conflicts with the data from Fl. Solar Energy Cntr. I don't know the conditions under which it was tested. I do know that to get that low a result, someone had to goof. One of the major FG manufacturers tried to discredit RBs in their test in the late 60's showing a very low value, that didn't work either. How do you know they weren't involved as they have been on other tets(?).
If these materials do not work in cold climates as you are tring to prove, then please explain, Why they are used in the Artic buildings and why they are used in space vehicles. where the temp gets down to -300 degs? How about space suits, fire storm and winter survival wraps. How about cryogenics?

I have reduced the a/c run time up to 65%. BUT, I can't determine what the reduction for winter will be because of too many variables. Some customers have reported up to 15% winter reduction. That would be consistant with the difference in summer vs winter operating conditions.

The engineerging manuel lists foil at 97% efficient. CERTAIN white glossy paints are within 10%. It depends on the type of base and pigment. Go ahead, paint your house glossy white, see if I care.

The amount of heat gain/loss thru radiant energy is about 75-80%. About 12-15% for studs. That, you can"t change. About 7% conductive. Why install a material that condensates moisture and increase heat flow up tp 75% in an area that can be controlled by reflection? So what you're saying is increase the area of the small/or no conductive rate up to about 90% with materials that pass more energy with the increase of temp difference. The argument that cellulose increases its "R" value as the temperature increses does not include the run time of the test or moisture factors. RBs can claim the same. When the temperature is about a 60 deg spread the increse in radiated BTUs is about 4 BTUs. (from memory)

FG is about 98% airspaces, so that means the radiant energy radiates thru the material. With a 250 watt heat lamp you can feel it pass thru in about 30 seconds. Cellulose is denser and so it takes longer. But, the material still absorbs and latter releases the heat energy. High energy always flows to low energy. Hot to cold.

Of course I didn't say any thing about conductivity of RBs, they reflect not resist. That's the whole point. The engineering manuel shows glass and wood having a 90% + absorbtion and emittance rate. The reason the FG and cellulose companies do not like to talk about radiant energy is because it shows what is really happening in these materials.

Evil is in the eye of the beholder. You cannot see evil in another person unless you have embraced evil youself. By the same token, you can only see love if you embrace love.

Thank you for considering my opinion.
Old 12-23-01, 07:26 AM
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Goodness: I wish I had nothing better to do the sit around and argue about Radiance, FG's, percents etc. No matter what anyone says, there is a very good reason why it is hard to get in stores. It is because nobody buys it. Just that alone should tell something.
Old 12-23-01, 02:02 PM
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A coat of paint is going to take the place of wall insulation?? Not at only $35 a gallon it won't!!
Old 12-25-01, 05:00 AM
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How is insulation added to existing walls?

Old 12-25-01, 03:22 PM
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In Michigan diydiva, they drill holes from the exterior in every stud cavity towards the bottom and top of the wall and blow in cellulose.. A good contractor can remove any siding where necessary prior to blowing in the wall insulation, or if it is brick they can drill through the mortar joints and blow in insulation...

However If you have any insualtion in the wall at all, I would not bother with having cellulose or any other material blown into the wall as it will not be able to fill the entire cavity because the existing insualtion will block its movement, and you will only end up with pockets of areas filled..

It is also a good idea to seal around electrical outlets on exterior walls and make sure around your windows and doors is sealed well..

Good Luck

Old 12-26-01, 04:23 PM
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Greetings, Jack the Contractor

The reason you do not normally find RBs in hardware stores is because most customers do not have the training or skill to properly install them. That does not mean they can't be trained. How do you train millions of people to do this? For my part I do not feel they should be sold there, neither do most of the RB manufacturers I know. RBs should be installed by a professional installer in most cases.

The interesting thing is, that the hardware store empoyees do not teach their customers how to install FG properly either, so the customer does not get full benefit from that product either.

You're degrading comment is not worthy of a professional.

Thank you for my opinion.
Old 01-09-02, 08:03 PM
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I don't get needs special skills and training to apply a coat of PAINT??? that's why these people can't find it in stores?
Old 01-13-02, 03:29 AM
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Greetings, KKM

If you are referring to the previous comments about RBs, I was refering to the installation of single and multi layer sheets of these materials. It dosen't take a rocket scienitist to install these products, but it does take attention, which most people no longer consider important.

Since you are referring to paint, let me comment, YES, people regularly screw up painting products.

As a former research and developement machinist, cost estimator and quality control supervisor, I can assure you, people can find the most creative ways to screw up a simple product or procedure.

Hope I didn't burst a bubble.


eorge H.

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